FEZ is Boring, Buggy, Badly Designed Bullshit

[Friendly]

So much for the most hyped "indie" game of the decade.
You run, jump, climb and change perspective while collecting yellow cubes. That's it, apparently. There are no enemies - bad idea.
There is no sense of urgency, nothing driving you. It looks nice but feels empty, barren.

The XBLA version has serious frame-skipping/stuttering problems.

First impression: 6/10. Anyone who rates this 9/10 is simply clueless about what makes a game good and can't be trusted.

My suggestion: If you are looking for an enjoyable 2D platforming indie game made in the west, then go for Super Meatboy instead.
Or play the Japanese indie platformer Cave Story. That quote by the creator of Fez about modern Japanese games sucking sounds pretty funny now, considering how he himself failed to create an engaging game, while the Japanese-made Cave Story (which inspired his grahpical style) is so much better.

[trap15]

Yes, indie games blow, welcome to the club. Anyone who expects anything out of the indie scene needs to re-examine the actual output of said scene.

Though, there always seems to be plenty of good doujin. Maybe western indie devs should stop being pretentious hipster assholes and look at how the Japanese are doing it.

[Zaarock]

I played through the trial.. my main problem was how slow your character is to control. The graphics are pretty nice but having to go through the environments really slow even once you've already learned the controls just gets boring.

I wouldn't mind buying it at 400msp or such just for the "experience" if it wasn't so sluggish and didnt give you hints about everything.

@trap15: you're saying every western "indie" game is crap? surely there are exceptions, especially if they don't label themselves with that word.

[trap15]

Most of them are; not all though. Usually if they don't label themselves as indie, they're not horrible pretentious abortions.

[Drum]

What are your favourite indie games, trap15? Or the ones you consider the least worst. Out of curiosity.

[SuperPang]

This thread is boring, I'm off to play Fez.

[Friendly]

This thread is boring, I'm off to play Fez.

Prepare to be bored beyond the scope of this thread.

[trap15]

What are your favourite indie games, trap15? Or the ones you consider the least worst. Out of curiosity.

If you'd consider Cave Story as indie rather than doujin, that would be probably my favorite indie game (I actually really like it), and one of the two that I don't find utterly repulsive. The other would be VVVVVV.

[Udderdude]

So much for the most hyped "indie" game of the decade.
You run, jump, climb and change perspective while collecting yellow cubes. That's it, apparently. There are no enemies - bad idea.
There is no sense of urgency, nothing driving you. It looks nice but feels empty, barren.g

That's what I've been saying for months now, and all I got was "OMG U DIDNT EVEN PLAY IT YET" from the indiefag crowd. I even had some goober who got a pre-release copy telling me it was "brilliant" and the game engine was "amazing". (lol @ the below comment about frameskipping, then)

I tried reading the IGN review of the game, and couldn't even get past the opening paragraphs, which were pure indie handjob circlejerk material. You know when there's terms like "Childlike sense of wonder" in a videogame review, it's going to be some Grade A pretentious bullshit. Although ironically, it may end up being the most accurate part of the review, as the only person who could actually enjoy this game is a young child, or has the mental age of one.

http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/122/1222726p1.html

The XBLA version has serious frame-skipping/stuttering problems.

The only version out there is the XBLA version. They got a Microsoft exclusive contract.

[Skykid]

http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/122/1222726p1.html

Lol ign.

"Fez has so much to see and do that most players will make their way through numerous stages in a short span of time."

So anyway, boring then is it? Oh well. The silver lining is we can start slating Phil Fish for making poorer games than the Japanese.

[Ghegs]

Damn, that was a short trial. I guess it did enough to let people know just how the perspective switching works, which I guess is the most talked about aspect, but still, could've been longer.

I'm going to echo Zaarock on pretty much everything. I like how the game looks, the perspective switching is cool (even though it's been done elsewhere now) but the character just moves so slow. And climbing ladders feels even slower. I really wish there was a run button. And a way to turn the hint system off, I guess they tried to make the thing's dialogue seem lighthearted and funny, but it just came across as forced and unnecessary to me.

I tend to like exploration-based games, but I do wish there were more repercussions to missing a jump. Some enemies here and there to spice things up might not hurt either. I can see myself buying this at 400 points, though.

Speaking of good indie games, a few weekends ago I spent an entire day playing Treasure Adventure Game. It's also very exploration-based and has its share of platforming and puzzles, but also enemies, combat and bosses. I liked it a whole bunch. And it's freeware.

[Jockel]

I played through the trial just now and yup, it's boring as hell. It's got some neat ideas here and there, but at the end of the day it just isn't fun to play. And that's what it all boils down to.

[Icarus]

There are no enemies - bad idea.

So he spent several years making the game, only to forget to put a key element of game play in?
Wow, gigantic oversight right there. Guess we'll have to wait for Fez 2 in 2017 to see them, then.

[Observer]

My approach at hipster speech:
"The game has no enemies because you have to EXPERIENCE the barren wastelands and feel the loneliness so your heart gradually becomes buried deep beneath a layer of tears. It's a very human point of view and if he would've added enemies, those creatures would need a big, deep meaning behind. Killing one of them would lead to unforeseen repercussions so realise how much of a murderer you've become for killing them in this us-and-them battle."

Or we could just say the lazy fuck doesn't know how to code simple AI patterns. Period.

But words like "entitlement", the "experience", the "content", the "value on money" and now this emotional connection and all that shit is what are slowly dragging me away from games. Stop trying to force-feed me all this stuff.

The only stories, experiences, emotional connections and "feelings" I want is "Welcome to Violent City, press start Omega Boost! YOUR MISSIONS.".

Also:

Fez also forces itself on reality by tucking QR codes in secret spots. Scanning them gives players additional unlock codes. This means players need to find their smartphones, potentially download a QR-scanner application, or borrow someone else's device. One way or another, players need to stop playing and go out of their way to use a physical thing to interact with Fez.

This sounds... I-I just don't know what to make out of this.

[Udderdude]

One way or another, players need to stop playing and go out of their way to use a physical thing to interact with Fez.

So I guess the Xbox 360 and it's controller are no longer physical things. I never knew I had a metaphysical console on my hands .. :p

"experience"

This one is especially odious to me, as it implies that other games with more stuff going on than just looking at the pretty pixels are somehow LESS of an experience, or that the actual interesting gameplay is a distraction!

Same goes for vapid, empty movies with little to no interesting/engaging plot and characters.

Next indiefag that blubbers at me about "IT'S ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE, MAAAAAAAAN" is getting a smack upside the head.

[Observer]

One way or another, players need to stop playing and go out of their way to use a physical thing to interact with Fez.

So I guess the Xbox 360 and it's controller are no longer physical things. I never knew I had a metaphysical console on my hands .. :p

At least you don't have an invisible console. Microsoft instantly assume you have a 360 when signing fr GFWL. All I ever get are mexican 360 offers, that's how the world works for them....

But, yes, that part alone turns the review into the joke of the month.

[Friendly]

The part I don't understand is, why are game review sites hyping this game? It just isn't very good. It's like these reviewers haven't played any good 2D games in recent years, thus leaving them without a frame of reference.

[Udderdude]

The part I don't understand is, why are game review sites hyping this game? It just isn't very good. It's like these reviewers haven't played any good 2D games in recent years, thus leaving them without a frame of reference.

Hype, retardation, payola, indie circlejerk initiation rites. Take your pick.

There's also people who are genuinely entertained by running around an empty, vapid world and collecting yellow thingies for 150 levels. They fall somewhere between "Manchild" and "Easily amused", I guess.

[ShmupSamurai]

I'd pick all three, and add in that, yeah, it's waaaaaaaay more than likely the people praising Fez haven't touched a single good 2D game in their life.

Personally I'd play one round of Tetris than deal with ten seconds of Fez-and I suck Tetris.

[louisg]

Next [derogatory term removed] that blubbers at me about "IT'S ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE, MAAAAAAAAN" is getting a smack upside the head.

I agree- I feel like that attitude is a slap in the face of every developer who put energy into not just the atmosphere, but the game balance, level design, and all the other things that differentiate a good game from a poor game. It implies, as you pointed out, that gameplay detracts from atmosphere. Which is ludicrous. That's like saying that plot and character development in a story detracts from atmosphere. But I always seem to be at odds with most peoples' taste in games, which to be quite frank, were where my sophistication level was when I was in my late teens and I've since moved on. But we do have to remember that a lot of players are still in that phase where they're just soaking up atmosphere and that's what they want from a game experience.

I can't comment on Fez because I still haven't played it for more than a couple minutes, but I really do fail to see how liking a game for just the atmosphere is different from watching movies only because you like the special effects. There's something to be said for cleverness in a game (self-referential jokes and such). But, it never should replace actual depth.

.. it's also why I never watched the movie Blow Up more than once-- I want meat in my entertainment!

[Moniker]

While I'm generally a big indie game fan, I have to agree with a lot of the criticisms here. My biggest beef (from the demo) is that there is no consequence for failure. It worked in Braid due to the rewind feature, but all that amounts here is solving puzzles - therefore the platform aspect is thereby just tacked on. There's a lot of potential with the gimmick (and maybe that becomes apparent later in the game), but all it really just adds up to is a platformer with a gimmick; those are a dime-a-dozen on the indie scene, and those are usually free. I really can't believe that it took four years to complete the development of this game.

I'll take Treasure Adventure Game over this any day of the week.

[Specineff]

I haven't played either game, but by looking at gameplay videos I can tell you that Paper Mario did it better, over five years ago. Eckochrome is also a better platformer/puzzler by comparison.

I guess that a distinction can now be made between "indie games" (with the thousand-dollar support of a major publisher), and real independent games, brewed by fans or hobbyists.

[Ganelon]

I didn't understand the appeal of echochrome at all when it was released. Sure, the camera switching was original but there was nothing that made me want to continue playing. The simplistic art style left little to the imagination, the music was comfortable but not captivating, and the primary collection-based game mechanic has been a pet peeve of mine ever since the original Pac-Man. For Fez, I see no major effort to expand beyond what echochrome offered.

While I would agree that most JP games nowadays don't captivate me as much games from the mid-90s, I don't feel that Fez captures that spark either. It has innovation but seems to be missing some connection. One aspect that modern indie games are often weak on are character designs, possibly because low budgets are involved so there's no specialized artist and possibly because detailed characters aren't highly regarded. Cave Story helped popularize the blocky-pixel, abstract look, a look that I never enjoyed and that I find far inferior to Kirby's odd but memorable designs.

Anyway, I have no qualms admitting that I play for atmosphere. Atmosphere is simply the holistic factor that results from the mix of graphics, music, setting, plot, and everything else. If we don't truly understand the particular atmosphere trying to be conveyed, then it's very difficult to enjoy the atmosphere of those games. Lunar has perhaps the ideal magical fantasy RPG atmosphere (even though its game mechanics are very simple) and it's easy to talk to fans about it and very difficult to explain to others. On the other hand, the original Resident Evil has frustrating controls that seem to enhance its horror atmosphere; I can sense there's something there that many players enjoy but since I can't relate to that atmosphere (and the game mechanics don't appeal to me either), I don't enjoy the game. Unfortunately, Fez isn't in my atmosphere spectrum either.

However, that doesn't give me the right to judge how well it presents that atmosphere. Only people who feel that particular atmosphere can best say how much it appeals to them. Although I don't "get" it, I would deduce that there's a warm, peaceful, idyllic, childlike world that Fez conjures in the hearts of its fans. But just as different people favor different atmospheres, different people also play games for different reasons. To say that playing for atmosphere is less sophisticated seems farfetched. Just because many players simply go for mechanics doesn't mean that others out there haven't been focused primarily on atmosphere for their entire lives. Anyway, these bits are all part of my theory of video game atmosphere that I developed a decade ago so I can elaborate further, but I imagine I've already gone enough on this tangent.

[Weak Boson]

Just gave the trial a go. I enjoyed playing around with the perspective shifting mechanic, certainly has lots of potential. In terms of atmosphere it reminded me of 3D mario games more than anything - you get plonked in a little world and have to explore it and find a way through. Whether it amounts to anything I couldn't tell in the short duration of the trial but if it goes on sale I might get it to slake my curiosity.

[Friendly]

My biggest beef (from the demo) is that there is no consequence for failure.

My thoughts exactly; I should have included this in the first post.

[Age of Kings]

In terms of atmosphere it reminded me of 3D mario games more than anything - you get plonked in a little world and have to explore it and find a way through.

That's exactly how I felt. I don't see what's new about this game because it tasted too strongly of wanna-be Mario Galaxy. The Mario Galaxy games even had elements of perspective switching mechanics. The creator rags on Japanese games, but steals a lot of ideas from them...

[Drum]

What are your favourite indie games, trap15? Or the ones you consider the least worst. Out of curiosity.

If you'd consider Cave Story as indie rather than doujin, that would be probably my favorite indie game (I actually really like it), and one of the two that I don't find utterly repulsive. The other would be VVVVVV.

Check out Noitu Love 2 http://www.konjak.org/index.php?folder=4&file=10 and Spelunky if you haven't already. Great games that compare favourably to the best in their genres.

[Skykid]

That's exactly how I felt. I don't see what's new about this game because it tasted too strongly of wanna-be Mario Galaxy. The Mario Galaxy games even had elements of perspective switching mechanics. The creator rags on Japanese games, but steals a lot of ideas from them...

In his defence, the Japanese are making a lot of shit games, but I think it's an accusation that falls outside the remit of Nintendo's AAA first-party titles.

[Klatrymadon]

I enjoyed the demo quite a lot, but aye, your man does move rather too slowly. I wouldn't exactly say there's no punishment for death, either; re-negotiating the same vine-puzzle after falling off it several times (admittedly, mainly because I was dicking around with the camera) got bloody annoying.

My favourite thing was the music, which reminded me of Vangelis and was written by a guy who frequents another forum I use. I don't know if I'll buy it, yet - I can't see myself being held rapt by it for as long as it appears to last.

[Vyxx]

Reminds me of Flower on the PS3.

Nice visuals, but after 5 minutes of play I'm more interested in watching paint dry. No consequence for failure or feeling of urgency doesn't help either. Oh well.