The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.

[Obscura]

The absence of a comma in that post implies that shmups cause limp dick. I don't know if I like that...

[Gus]

Thanks for proving me right, guys.

Right about what; that no one cares about your "HEY GUYS, LOOK AT ME, I'M HARDCOAR!!!!" posturing?

Way to completely miss my point. Guess I shouldn't expect any better from a guy who comes on here and bitches because he can't clear some of the easiest shmups out there.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hardcore Blaster: A non-caustic product used to clear accretion out of pipes.

*Sprinkles some around the thread*

There, in a coupla hours now we have a cleaner-flushing thread of BIG Shmup grievances. Thanks to all the pesky plumbers out there who phoned in with this tip!

[Obscura]

After giving Futari BL a try, I'm really confused by all of the people who think it's easier than 1.5.

Sure, being able to use Reco makes the stages easier, but holy crap those faster bosses are a real pain.

[dunpeal2064]

I used Palm, the bosses die really fast.

Once you get used to it, BL is much easier for survival.

[Deca]

In a survival run with Reco BL Original plays itself.

The bosses go down much faster than in 1.5, if you screw up killing a large enemy and get a wall of bullets between you and it you can just use her focus shot to kill it with homing options, and in any busy sections the rapidfire button may as well be kakusei.

[Obscura]

I used Palm, the bosses die really fast.

I thought that in BL, Reco's laser did more damage to bosses?

in any busy sections the rapidfire button may as well be kakusei.

Huh, didn't know shot caused more slowdown than laser. I know the *opposite* is true for Abnormal Palm in 1.5.

[Deca]

Whichever puts more sprites on the screen really. Actually the trick to keeping the slowdown going in Futari is to not collect all the amber right away. I've killed myself a number of times by vacuuming all the amber and abruptly speeding up the game as a result.

[CloudyMusic]

In a survival run with Reco BL Original plays itself.

I can attest to this. I got to Larsa on my third day of playing shmups...ever. When I go to other games (even DFK1.5 lolstrong), the difference is huge.

[Obscura]

In a survival run with Reco BL Original plays itself.

I can attest to this. I got to Larsa on my third day of playing shmups...ever. When I go to other games (even DFK1.5 lolstrong), the difference is huge.

Given that I've spent loads of hours on loads of other games (including 1.5) and have never made it close to Larsa... ouch.

Oddly, I actually do literally no worse in Maniac than I do in Original. And I do significantly better in friggin' Ketsui than I do in Futari. I don't know what it is about Futari Original's bosses, but they just completely destroy me...

[Captain]

I'm the odd guy here, I die alot in the stages and random enemy bullets are often the cause of my death.

But when it comes to bosses, I always prevail.

[Obscura]

After an ill-advised session tonight, I really long for the day when I learn to stop playing Futari.

It doesn't accomplish anything but put me in a bad mood.

EDIT: And, oddly enough, a few minutes after writing that, Futari BL became the first Cave vert I've made it to the final stage of.

Really, everything for me revolves around success in the second half of stage 3; stage 4 and what I saw of stage 5 were a breeze by comparison.

Is there anything out there like Futari BL original stage 4, with the constant really fast streaming? God, that's fun to do.

DOUBLE EDIT:
And, 2 hours later, and about a million more credits... AND NOT A SINGLE FUCKING ONE MAKES IT PAST THE FUCKING THIRD STAGE. GOD, I FUCKING HATE FUTARI.

Everything about it. It makes you trudge through three stages before you see anything entertaining at all. If you bomb once, you can't possibly get the score extend, because your multiplier goes to zero. The retarded fucking score system, which mandates that you use laser for 10 fucking consecutive minutes, whether it's the right tool for the job or not, based on the color of some arbitrary fucking counter. The retarded fucking bullet patterns that wall you if you moved ever so slightly wrong the instant before the enemy fired the shot. God, that game fucking sucks.

And the only reason I keep playing it is because it pisses me off that even after sinking so much time into the "lol easy noob game", I don't have a clear to show for it. Fuck.

[Gus]

Everything about it. It makes you trudge through three stages before you see anything entertaining at all. If you bomb once, you can't possibly get the score extend, because your multiplier goes to zero. The retarded fucking score system, which mandates that you use laser for 10 fucking consecutive minutes, whether it's the right tool for the job or not, based on the color of some arbitrary fucking counter. The retarded fucking bullet patterns that wall you if you moved ever so slightly wrong the instant before the enemy fired the shot. God, that game fucking sucks.

lol

[Obscura]

So, someone is good at the game? Your point?

I'm sure there are people out there who are good at the Genesis version of Sword of Sodan; it must be a masterpiece, right?

[Gus]

You're playing the game wrong. That's my point.

[Obscura]

LOL, three more credits, not a single one made it past level 3. God, that game is such bullshit. Everything in it is either "so easy you fall asleep" or "lol, you're fucked" hard. The first two levels are a joke (and the score system is roughly the antithesis of "fun" as you sit there holding your laser, moving at 2 mph, waiting for the counter to turn green, so it's not like there's even fun to be had in trying to score), until you hit stage 2 boss's second form; then, you're pretty much guaranteed to lose either a life or a bomb (which is just as good as dying, since then the only way to get the extend if you bomb is to be a superplayer). Stage 3 alternates a bit more rapidly, but the giant beetles' first attack is pretty much total bullshit, since if you move wrong a fraction of a second before the attack is fired, you're walled, no way out, and aren't even given enough time to reaction-bomb it. Then there's the woodlice, and I've never made it past the stage 3 boss's first form with less than 4 bombs; practically nothing he does is dodgeable, and his patterns are ludicrously fucking fast.

No wonder DTP is always in such a bad mood; he's playing what has to be the most frustrating game ever made, and meanwhile everyone else says it's the easiest thing ever that they were able to clear on their first quarter despite having never played a shmup before. And now I'm in a shitty mood and am much worse than normal when I go back to Ketsui, because I spend a few hours playing Futari.

God, I long for the day I learn to stop going back to that game like a relapsing alcoholic or a chick who goes back to a guy who beats the shit out of her and the kids because she's sure "it'll be different this time".

[AntiFritz]

LOL, three more credits, not a single one made it past level 3. God, that game is such bullshit. Everything in it is either "so easy you fall asleep" or "lol, you're fucked" hard. The first two levels are a joke (and the score system is roughly the antithesis of "fun" as you sit there holding your laser, moving at 2 mph, waiting for the counter to turn green, so it's not like there's even fun to be had in trying to score), until you hit stage 2 boss's second form; then, you're pretty much guaranteed to lose either a life or a bomb (which is just as good as dying, since then the only way to get the extend if you bomb is to be a superplayer). Stage 3 alternates a bit more rapidly, but the giant beetles' first attack is pretty much total bullshit, since if you move wrong a fraction of a second before the attack is fired, you're walled, no way out, and aren't even given enough time to reaction-bomb it. Then there's the woodlice, and I've never made it past the stage 3 boss's first form with less than 4 bombs; practically nothing he does is dodgeable, and his patterns are ludicrously fucking fast.

No wonder DTP is always in such a bad mood; he's playing what has to be the most frustrating game ever made, and meanwhile everyone else says it's the easiest thing ever that they were able to clear on their first quarter despite having never played a shmup before. And now I'm in a shitty mood and am much worse than normal when I go back to Ketsui, because I spend a few hours playing Futari.

God, I long for the day I learn to stop going back to that game like a relapsing alcoholic or a chick who goes back to a guy who beats the shit out of her and the kids because she's sure "it'll be different this time".

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40561 This might help you.

[Erppo]

I don't think it's even possible to avoid getting both extends before the last boss in Original unless you try really hard.

[Obscura]

I don't think it's even possible to avoid getting both extends before the last boss in Original unless you try really hard.

In BL? In 1.5, sure, but in BL, it's rare that I get the the first extend by the time I reach the stage 3 boss.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40561

That thread, along with learning that slowpoke MAME worked with BL, is what started my spiral back into Futari.

EDIT:
Again, is there anything out there that has the fast constant streaming like Futari stage 4? Because that's really damn fun, and a large part of the reason I keep playing the game (in the vain hopes of making it back there again); if there were another game that's like that without all of Futari's crap, I'd really like to know.

[Erppo]

I don't think it's even possible to avoid getting both extends before the last boss in Original unless you try really hard.

In BL? In 1.5, sure, but in BL, it's rare that I get the the first extend by the time I reach the stage 3 boss.

Ahh, I missed that part. Not sure about BL really, but bombing bosses shouldn't do much anything to your score unless you're trying to reach 100k counter.

[Gus]

LOL, three more credits, not a single one made it past level 3. God, that game is such bullshit. Everything in it is either "so easy you fall asleep" or "lol, you're fucked" hard. The first two levels are a joke (and the score system is roughly the antithesis of "fun" as you sit there holding your laser, moving at 2 mph, waiting for the counter to turn green, so it's not like there's even fun to be had in trying to score), until you hit stage 2 boss's second form; then, you're pretty much guaranteed to lose either a life or a bomb (which is just as good as dying, since then the only way to get the extend if you bomb is to be a superplayer). Stage 3 alternates a bit more rapidly, but the giant beetles' first attack is pretty much total bullshit, since if you move wrong a fraction of a second before the attack is fired, you're walled, no way out, and aren't even given enough time to reaction-bomb it. Then there's the woodlice, and I've never made it past the stage 3 boss's first form with less than 4 bombs; practically nothing he does is dodgeable, and his patterns are ludicrously fucking fast.

No wonder DTP is always in such a bad mood; he's playing what has to be the most frustrating game ever made, and meanwhile everyone else says it's the easiest thing ever that they were able to clear on their first quarter despite having never played a shmup before. And now I'm in a shitty mood and am much worse than normal when I go back to Ketsui, because I spend a few hours playing Futari.

God, I long for the day I learn to stop going back to that game like a relapsing alcoholic or a chick who goes back to a guy who beats the shit out of her and the kids because she's sure "it'll be different this time".

DTP alt account confirmed

[Obscura]

LOL, three more credits, not a single one made it past level 3. God, that game is such bullshit. Everything in it is either "so easy you fall asleep" or "lol, you're fucked" hard. The first two levels are a joke (and the score system is roughly the antithesis of "fun" as you sit there holding your laser, moving at 2 mph, waiting for the counter to turn green, so it's not like there's even fun to be had in trying to score), until you hit stage 2 boss's second form; then, you're pretty much guaranteed to lose either a life or a bomb (which is just as good as dying, since then the only way to get the extend if you bomb is to be a superplayer). Stage 3 alternates a bit more rapidly, but the giant beetles' first attack is pretty much total bullshit, since if you move wrong a fraction of a second before the attack is fired, you're walled, no way out, and aren't even given enough time to reaction-bomb it. Then there's the woodlice, and I've never made it past the stage 3 boss's first form with less than 4 bombs; practically nothing he does is dodgeable, and his patterns are ludicrously fucking fast.

No wonder DTP is always in such a bad mood; he's playing what has to be the most frustrating game ever made, and meanwhile everyone else says it's the easiest thing ever that they were able to clear on their first quarter despite having never played a shmup before. And now I'm in a shitty mood and am much worse than normal when I go back to Ketsui, because I spend a few hours playing Futari.

God, I long for the day I learn to stop going back to that game like a relapsing alcoholic or a chick who goes back to a guy who beats the shit out of her and the kids because she's sure "it'll be different this time".

DTP alt account confirmed

Nope (for one thing, it would be obvious if you've been reading, since he plays everything on console and I play everything on PC).

But Futari does bring out the DTP in me, that's for damn sure. Jesus fuck, that thing is beyond frustrating.

[Deca]

Use as many bombs as you need to in st3, you should hit the first extend no later than the st2 boss anyway. Just pay minimal attention to scoring in the easier sections of 4 and 5 and youll hit the second in st5. Oh and use training mode to learn how to grab the extend item in 5 before it scrolls off. Pay more attention when you play, it sounds like you're making the same mistakes repeatedly rather than looking for alternate solutions.

Stop whining like a baby, you're just embarrassing yourself. You're going to feel dumb looking back at these posts next week after you've cleared the game.

[Gus]

Nope (for one thing, it would be obvious if you've been reading, since he plays everything on console and I play everything on PC).

But Futari does bring out the DTP in me, that's for damn sure. Jesus fuck, that thing is beyond frustrating.

The resemblance is uncanny, what with how you spout off about attacks being undodgeable and refuse to accept advice. It is obvious you did not learn a damn thing from that vid. Even I can hit both extends by stage 3.

[dunpeal2064]

How many points do you have at the end of stage 1 Obscura.

From your description of the first two levels, it does sound like you are missing some scoring mechs.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Welcome to my world.

I like the part about playing it like a relapsing alcoholic because that's exactly what it's like. You don't enjoy it, it makes you miserable and angry and you know it's no good for you yet you still come back compulsively.

I haven't played a shmup for a couple of weeks now and my mood has improved greatly.

[AntiFritz]

As your obviously using slowpoke mame, do you have the blitter delay set correctly (under slider controls in the tab menu). Afaik the correct setting is roughly somewhere from 63 - 66%. Maybe your finding it hard because the slowdown isn't behaving as well as it could.

[dunpeal2064]

Emo's touching emo's?

Now you guys can feed off each other and REALLY get nowhere.

[Obscura]

How many points do you have at the end of stage 1 Obscura.

From your description of the first two levels, it does sound like you are missing some scoring mechs.

Usually, at the end of stage 1 in BL, the first two digits of the score are 25 (I can never remember whether that's 250 mil or 25 mil in Futari). By the end of stage 2, it's 55-60, depending on how badly the boss's second form went (die there = no end of level bonus).

I have no idea how to point-blank anything on stage 2 without dying, since those lobsters come out so low and insta-gib you.

As your obviously using slowpoke mame, do you have the blitter delay set correctly (under slider controls in the tab menu). Afaik the correct setting is roughly somewhere from 63 - 66%. Maybe your finding it hard because the slowdown isn't behaving as well as it could.

I've been wondering about this, because when I use those settings, I get literally nearly *constant* slowdown. Even on the title screen and character select screen. 51% (number determined by seeing how high I could get it without getting slowdown on the title screen), on the other hand, makes it behave nearly identical to vids I've seen of the PCB (which does have a bit less than the XBox version- notably, none on the stage 3 boss's "unfolding pink lines" attack the first time he does it, but does slow down the second time he does it). I wonder if there's a difference between the 32 bit and 64 bit executables, and whether the people who need the super-high blitter rates are using the 32-bit version?

[dunpeal2064]

Obscura, I can make a video of how I do st1? I suck at shmups, but I am getting close to 50m on st1.

May help with those extends, and give you something a bit more early-game to work on.