TATE on Saturn?

[Spyke]

Hi all,

Thinking of getting a Jap Saturn console for its range of classic shmups. Wondering if many of its games support TATE mode?
Thanks,

Ant

[BIL]

Pretty much all of the Saturn's major shooter releases (Cave, Raizing, Psikyo, Irem, Taito and Capcom's to name a few) have full TATE display where applicable.

I can't think of an SS vert scroller without it (obviously ignoring games like Radiant Silvergun and Blast Wind which are natively yoko).

[Deca]

Japanese Saturn is pretty much THE console to own for shooters.

[BIL]

Oh yeah, knew there was one I'd forgot - Detana Twinbee from the Twinbee Deluxe Pack doesn't have TATE (same goes for the PS1 version). It's very much the exception, though - actually, it's the lone TATE game of Konami's entire Deluxe Pack range.

[Spyke]

Cool! Just got to find a good one affordable now then. Oh, and wait for payday! Thanks for the info.

Ant

[mrsmiley381]

Yeah, go nuts. Battle Garegga has a TATE mode I wish I could use. I'm pretty sure my Trinitron would comply if it weren't so damn huge.

My personal suggestion for a Saturn is a domestic model modified with a region switch. Dead simple mod unless you're a retard like I was at first. I'm guessing that since you're in Scotland you'll want a 50/60 Hz switch as well which is also supposed to be pretty easy.

Of course, if you find a good lot, take it! The Saturn is a beast in any region.

[Thjodbjorn]

Would a pro action replay not work better than a region switch? Or at least, not risk one breaking their Saturn?

[mrsmiley381]

Would a pro action replay not work better than a region switch? Or at least, not risk one breaking their Saturn?

There are some advantages to the region switch. For example, even though the PAR has a huge memory capacity it cannot actually be managed by games. You can only transfer save data to it from its menu. For games with huge save files, like Dragon Force, this makes memory management a huge pain in the ass. Additionally the PAR has teeth that are fairly wide and have been reported to kill Saturn cart slots because of how much they bend the pins. I never had this happen when I used a PAR, but it's something that makes some sense to me. Seems worth noting. It will also run you about thirty bucks whereas the mod will take the cost of a small switch and the time to solder six wires and clip two connections on the board. Using a region switch also is a hell of a lot faster than having to use the PAR to boot the game every time.

Games that require a RAM cart will still need one but I find that those games commonly come with a RAM cart, making the PAR unnecessary. This could still be a case where you want a PAR.

So really it's a matter of preference and necessary functionality. If all you're playing is a handful of shooters then you can manage with a PAR. But since Spyke is in Europe getting a Japanese Saturn could potentially cost more than a domestic one with two mods done to it. Weigh the options and call the shot.

[antime]

Additionally the PAR has teeth that are fairly wide and have been reported to kill Saturn cart slots because of how much they bend the pins.

I'm pretty sure that's just a myth. All carts I've measured (from official to no-brand Action Replay knockoffs) have used the same thickness PCB. In as so far as the phenomenon is real it's more likely it's due to the poor quality of the cartridge port which probably wasn't designed for too many insertions. For that reason an all-in-one cart makes a lot of sense, as you can just leave it in more or less permanently. You only need to swap carts if you're a huge King of Fighters or Ultraman fan (or want to use the Netlink, but who has a landline anymore?)

[Spyke]

Ok, thanks for the info.

I have two to choose from. One is a genuine Jap model, plain and simple.
The other is a PAL machine with a 50hz/60hz PAL/NTSC mod switch (and changing LED indicator light to show which region selected) which plays Jap/USA/Eur discs at will.

In practical terms, will they both play games the same? Eg, will they both show import games running full screen at correct speeds?

Please forgive stupid noob questions - I'm a total Saturn Virgin!

Ant

[antime]

In practical terms, will they both play games the same? Eg, will they both show import games running full screen at correct speeds?

Yes.

[Spyke]

Thanks!

Ant

[gray117]

Additionally the PAR has teeth that are fairly wide and have been reported to kill Saturn cart slots because of how much they bend the pins.

I'm pretty sure that's just a myth. All carts I've measured (from official to no-brand Action Replay knockoffs) have used the same thickness PCB. In as so far as the phenomenon is real it's more likely it's due to the poor quality of the cartridge port which probably wasn't designed for too many insertions. For that reason an all-in-one cart makes a lot of sense, as you can just leave it in more or less permanently. You only need to swap carts if you're a huge King of Fighters or Ultraman fan (or want to use the Netlink, but who has a landline anymore?)

Yep, it's just that the saturn cart slots are relatively fragile - repetitive pulling in/out of any cart will likely cause issues faster than you may expect ... but I've never had a issue - PAR went in and only got taken in/out a couple of times when moving.

For pal systems - hz switch is generally the way forward.

Whether with a PAR or another region switch/mod you basically have access to anything, and can even play your existing PAL games at 60hz - which is a nice compromise between nostalgia/optimisation/access

[cj iwakura]

I use a PAR import adapter, and it works pretty great.

I have had the occasional issue with the cart not reading, but it's generally good for the long run, as long as once it's in, you leave it be.

[louisg]

I've had no problem with my ST-Key, and that's one of the cheaper/crappier ones. I haven't taken it out a whole lot though.

[mrsmiley381]

Hm. Guess the cart slot really is just a piece of crap.

So, in revision to my earlier post, if you want to avoid the boot process of the PAR and have plenty of storage space for RPG's like Dragon Force without having to do bizarre memory management then a region switch might be for you. If you want to play a number of 1M/4M RAM games then grab the PAR. Please note that a Japanese copy of Soukyugurentai on a US Saturn will bug the hell out with a PAR. This is avoided by playing the Soukyugurentai Otokuyo release which doesn't try to switch languages and take a dump all over your screen.

I think I've mentioned/corrected all of the most common Saturn import stuff at this point, but please correct me (again) if I made any mistakes.

Is there a way to skip past the PAR boot sequence? I recall it starting up every time I went to start a game. I honestly haven't had to use one in years.

[Spyke]

Great load of information there - very useful. I have just won myself an official Japanese Saturn off ebay so it looks like the only thing I need to worry about is getting a memory card to handle he saves. I don't intend to be playing RPGs on it or fighting games.

Ant

[louisg]

Great load of information there - very useful. I have just won myself an official Japanese Saturn off ebay so it looks like the only thing I need to worry about is getting a memory card to handle he saves. I don't intend to be playing RPGs on it or fighting games.

Ant

Saturn has enough built-in RAM for several saves. It uses a CR2032 battery that's replaceable through a door on the back. If you do end up getting a memory card, it's actually a cartridge which uses that same fragile cartridge slot! I have never had a need for it though.

[TransatlanticFoe]

You want that memory cart for when the battery goes though! That's why I put up with an extra couple of button presses to fire up with an Action Replay cart. Backs up my saves and lets me play imports... and it never comes out.

[antime]

I think I've mentioned/corrected all of the most common Saturn import stuff at this point, but please correct me (again) if I made any mistakes.

May be worth clarifying that when you're talking about save game management you're comparing with a Sega Backup cartridge. It's too bad that Sega's cartridge identification system didn't allow for combined RAM/backup carts, that would have simplified things a lot.

I wonder how common support for the Saturn floppy-disk drive was. The communications protocol for it has been reverse-engineered, and it shouldn't be too difficult to hack up eg. an SD cart adapter, provided you could find link port connectors. However I have no idea how many games outside Panzer Dragoon Saga supports it directly.

[SkylineR32]

One Saturn shmup forced me into finally forgetting the PAR's and buying a Japanese Saturn about 12 years back. That was dezaemon 2. The ONLY way to play the game and save it is to use a Japanese Saturn and official Sega Memory Cart.

Other than that a PAR will do you for all Saturn shmups.

I once wrote a Saturn TATE FAQ for GameFaqs but they kept knocking me back due to my moderations at the time

[Austin]

Would a pro action replay not work better than a region switch? Or at least, not risk one breaking their Saturn?

The Saturn batteries die so quickly that I prefer taking this route. When I'm done playing, I can tap the reset button then backup my save files and high scores.

[Blackbird]

Darius Gaiden, Galactic Attack/Ray Force/Layer Section, and Thunder Force V are all cheap, good Saturn shooters.

If you want to get a little more spendy, try DoDonPachi or Garegga.

[EllertMichael]

Hi all,

Thinking of getting a Jap Saturn console for its range of classic shmups. Wondering if many of its games support TATE mode?
Thanks,

Ant

The following games support TATE mode:

Batsugun (J)
Battle Garegga (J)
DonPachi (J)
DoDonPachi (J)
Galactic Attack (U)
- Layer Section (J)
- Rayforce (E)
Game Tengoku (J)
-the Game Paradise
Gekirindan (J)
Gun Frontier - Arcade Gears vol. 2 (J)
Gunbird (J)
Gunsmoke (Capcom Generations 4) (J)
Image Fight (J)
Kingdom Grandprix (J)
-Shippū Mahō Daisakusen Kingudamu-Gurandopri (Arcade mode)
Kyukyoku Tigers 2 Plus (Twin Cobra 2) (J)
Shienryu (J)
Skull Fang: Kuhga Gaiden (J)
Sonic Wings Special (J)
Strikers 1945 (J)
Strikers 1945 II (J)

[Spyke]

Thanks for the list, that's useful! I have the Jap Sat now and am enjoying Gunbird in TATE mode very much. I also bought an official memory cartridge and transfer all my saves to that to save them disappearing when battery dies.

Ant