"This shmup is hard!" "WTF, that's the easiest game ever!"

[gs68]

[Well, I never should have made this thread in the first place.]

[Bananamatic]

doj

[hzt]

I can't believe you're still having this problem with shmup fans, I got over that shit in like a week. Seriously, it's not a big deal.

lrn2internet

[TLB]

This is sort of a problem I have with the shmup fanbase.

Player A has had some experience with shmups, and tries so and so shmup, and easily gets their ass destroyed within one or two stages. Maybe some practice here and there, enough to make progress, but the ALL clear still feels far away.

Player B calls out Player A for sucking at said shmup, saying "oh, I 1-ALL'd that shit in 3 days / 6 hours / 2 plays" or so. Shit flinging ensues.

So far I've experienced this issue myself, with Thunder Force III, Gradius 1 AC, and Omega Five. Okay, so you find so and so game easy, that's fine. You don't have to be an elitist prick about it, you know.

You are full of shit. No one "flings shit" over any of this. Cut the drama and start memorizing. The commandant will hear about this immediately.

(Seriously, you need to get your head out of the toilet and come enjoy the party.)

[dunpeal2064]

So much negativity, isn't this a video game forum?

Who cares if people are pricks, just ignore it, or use it as fuel to get better.

I'm sure opening this thread will not help your situation.

[Bananamatic]

[ratikal]

I can sort of see where you coming from. People don't necessarily say "oh you suck l2p nerd", but you can't help comparing yourself to other people. I can't help but get irritated when someone has done so-and-so in 30 hours when I have still haven't done it in 60 hours. It makes you feel like shit and like you are doing something wrong, but mostly like shit.

It can also get under your skin sometimes when you achieve something great, but then think someone else could do it quicker than the time it took you. I feel like my DSIIX, Batsugun Sp, and Eschatos Hard scores could easily be taken over by someone in 20 hours...

In all seriousness though, we probably should just shut up and enjoy the games. Shmups really are more about your own personal progress. But competitiveness can get the best of us sometimes...

[Udderdude]

I learned to play by getting beat over the head with a tire iron every time I lost a life, and you can too. :3

[mrsmiley381]

I get over it by thinking to myself, "I have gotten laid at least once in my life."

Then I ignore said person because said person is a troll. Really, the more shmups you play the more you learn to adapt. Keep playing and ignore everybody else.

[Moniker]

Thought this thread was going to be about DOJ being easier than DDP. Coz someone said that once and today I chose to believe them. Its a pragmatic leap of faith.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I think most folk tend to tell ppl to l2p when they are been too negative and defeatist. I think theres way too much negativity on the forum recently,which can also bring about an overeaction from someone who is getting annoyed by it.

Reading positive posts can really urge me on with my own shmupping, especially when in between runs and ill pop in here as a quick pick me up. Today I came here first and read the sina mora thread, the only thing I have the urge to do is run a hot bath

[rancor]

Who are these negative pricks that are doing this? Name some names - seriously. There has been a lot of shit-talking on the board (this is the internet after all) but I really don't think I've ever seen anyone post "lol - 60 hours? - u suck".
It took me a little over a year to 1cc Battle Bakraid, and I still haven't completed Mushi Futari (why is stage 4 so hard, but 5 is easy?!)
Everyone works at their own pace, and most of us have busy lives outside of our time we spend in the shmups zone.. It's really nothing to feel proud or ashamed of in how little/much time it takes you to complete a game. The satisfaction should come with the deed being done.

Don't let it get to you. 90% of the people on here are decent folks online, and probably really friendly in real life. With few exceptions, the real assholes don't hang around very long.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Don't let it get to you. 90% of the people on here are decent folks online, and probably really friendly in real life. With few exceptions, the real assholes don't hand around very long.

wise words

[RNGmaster]

Thanks for preserving the OP - that's some nice butthurt.

I would personally think it a better idea to ask these people for help and strategies rather than saying "wah big meanies don't say i'm shit at video games it's not true". But that takes willingness to admit that you suck.

Anyways, if you want to stay a mostly casual player and spend most of your time on beatmania/idolmaster/whatever you do these days then those comments shouldn't get to you since you don't really want to be one of the super crazy players who clears games in days.

[Ruldra]

Who are these negative pricks that are doing this? Name some names - seriously. There has been a lot of shit-talking on the board (this is the internet after all) but I really don't think I've ever seen anyone post "lol - 60 hours? - u suck".

Over all the time I've been on the forum, I've only seen one case where the guy directly tried to shit-talk someone, and he was promptly banned for that. Overall the users here are pretty friendly.

As for getting better at shmups, it's all about practice and perseverance. Keep at it and you'll improve.

[Moniker]

I do suddenly remember someone recommending suicide for anyone who can't clear Gradius or Thunderforce IV. Wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Needless to say, I got on that Gradius clear post haste.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

wot? you mean this isn't a re-post of one of my own shitty threads? ah well.

[Gus]

You are full of shit. No one "flings shit" over any of this. Cut the drama and start memorizing. The commandant will hear about this immediately.

(Seriously, you need to get your head out of the toilet and come enjoy the party.)

Nobody here gives a fuck about actually getting good, silly. It's all about teh drama.

[TLB]

You are full of shit. No one "flings shit" over any of this. Cut the drama and start memorizing. The commandant will hear about this immediately.

(Seriously, you need to get your head out of the toilet and come enjoy the party.)

Nobody here gives a fuck about actually getting good, silly. It's all about teh drama.

Well, plenty of people talk about how they "play for score" "at their own pace" and/or "just to improve their own level" or whatever. If they had the right resources and learned to understand certain aspects of the games/pragmatic play, they would enjoy far better results with little more fucking effort, which, to me as an observer, is the most frustrating thing that people seem to want to ignore. It's really not hard, guys! You don't have to yank the stick with twice as much effort to be good. It's all a matter of your mindset and how you observe/adapt.

Given the right resources (tons of great new resources are popping up in the strategy section every day lately! check them out! If you have a request, just make an RQ and someone might be able to create the resource you are looking for!), any player can make huge jumps and strides in their skill level. Things will become easier, REALLY! You can get farther in the game at the drop of a hat and things become way more interesting. You can learn to make steady progress, which is far less frustrating and far more gratifying. I have been trying to say this all along, but some people still believe that these games aren't fun at "higher" levels. It's time to start gearing up and being a cohesive community, guys.

People seem to be afraid of getting better...I say, "Quit being a pussy."

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I take comfort in the fact that I am one of the few people here that actually knows how to play a game made by Irem.

[Bee Cool]

Can we rename this thread "Shmups Chat: Hurt Feelings Edition"?

[mrsmiley381]

If they had the right resources and learned to understand certain aspects of the games/pragmatic play, they would enjoy far better results with little more fucking effort, which, to me as an observer, is the most frustrating thing that people seem to want to ignore.

You know, I think you're on to something. It reminds me of the classic "this is too hard so it sucks" argument. You know, when someone says Mega Man X sucks when they ignore half of what's going. Said person will make my blood pressure shoot through the roof.

As a non-shmup example my friend was playing the new Twisted Metal recently and I had to coach him as to what to do and I had not even played the game. I had only watched him play the game and paid attention to what was happening. He couldn't figure out what to do during the second phase of Sweet Tooth's boss fight. He kept thinking he had to go back under the Grimms' monster truck to pick up his gunner, even though in the previous moments Sweet Tooth had been radioing to the gunner that he was wondering what it would be like to watch someone explode. He then spent several minutes hovering under the truck even though there was no bright guiding light there like the previous phase. He also ignored Sweet Tooth holding a fucking C4 detonator outside of the window when he was a certain distance away. I tried to tell him all of these things I noticed and yet he refused to try to get out of range and detonate. Only once he failed did he listen, and before that he said the boss sucked. I was pretty irritated at his lack of general awareness. He was so defeated and stubborn about it. I was genuinely mad. Come on man, there are a bunch of obvious things there helping you! Just pay attention!

But the Strategy Forum? If you're willing to at least try half the shit suggested then no one, NO ONE, should give you shit, ever. It's quite possible that you simply have bad execution. I know I try to tap through shit a few frames too late. That can keep me from a clear for a long time. Hell, if it's not Compile, Deathsmiles, or a CAVE Novice mode, I'm probably screwed. One of these days I'm going to punch a hole through my wall. But eventually I might get that Garegga clear. It might take me a hundred hours and repeated ignoring of work so I can study the guide. But if someone tells me that they cleared Garegga in one-fifth the time and calls me a fag, what am I supposed to do? Cry bitch tears about it? Hell no, I factor in that I have a ton of skills other than learning shmups, that I play a ton of other kinds of games, that I go to work every day and so I might get rusty, that I play with a variety of controllers on less-than-perfect TV's, and that I don't play games on speed as much as I used to. There's no reason to be negative about playing a video game less proficiently than someone. Just learn to manage your time better and ignore them.

Whatever, 2AM post done. Don't know if I actually made any sense. I tried.

[Illyrian]

Personally I URA 2-alled Ketsui in 5 minutes with a soup ladle.

Anyone who can't do this is a fucking scrub.

But seriously, I've never seen any of this stuff the OP is talking about.

[trap15]

u suck lrn2play noob

[Captain]

Hellsinker is easy once you get a hang of it.

But it takes a LOOOONG time to get a hang of it.

[Gus]

Well, plenty of people talk about how they "play for score" "at their own pace" and/or "just to improve their own level" or whatever. If they had the right resources and learned to understand certain aspects of the games/pragmatic play, they would enjoy far better results with little more fucking effort, which, to me as an observer, is the most frustrating thing that people seem to want to ignore. It's really not hard, guys! You don't have to yank the stick with twice as much effort to be good. It's all a matter of your mindset and how you observe/adapt.

Given the right resources (tons of great new resources are popping up in the strategy section every day lately! check them out! If you have a request, just make an RQ and someone might be able to create the resource you are looking for!), any player can make huge jumps and strides in their skill level. Things will become easier, REALLY! You can get farther in the game at the drop of a hat and things become way more interesting. You can learn to make steady progress, which is far less frustrating and far more gratifying. I have been trying to say this all along, but some people still believe that these games aren't fun at "higher" levels. It's time to start gearing up and being a cohesive community, guys.

People seem to be afraid of getting better...I say, "Quit being a pussy."

The thing is most of what seems to be giving people trouble is the simple stuff like the pillbugs in Futari Original's stage 3. It's like Sapz explained to me, nobody should need a guide for that shit. All it requires is basic streaming skills anyone serious should develop when they're first starting out. But the fucking casuals here simply never had that moment where they take a look at what's killing them and realize there's a way to manipulate the bullets to make it easy to dodge. Most people who do clear it do so by just mindlessly flailing around until they reach the end with an inevitably terrible score. That's because to the average poster here, playing League of Legends, watching the latest gamemovie, or even shitposting here all take higher priority over getting good at shmups. What I'm saying is it's not worth your time to teach people how to play; people who want to get good and not just play for bad scores and easy clears will get good on their own. Shmups chat is best enjoyed just trolling and laughing at the huge amount of shitposting.

[hzt]

Being good at shmups is passé. This year is all about being shit at shmups.

[Legendary Hoamaru]

The issue isn't even exclusive to shmups, but to competetive/challenging gaming in general.

More resources is great, but that definitely won't eliminate the problem. There are tons and tons of guides and videos out there on most modern Fighting Games or other competitive game and you still have newer players complaining.

Sums up the issue quite nicely: http://www.cracked.com/article_18544_ho ... world.html

Complaining, besides getting a patch here and there, won't change the rules of a game. You can either continue practicing or you can take a break (temporarily or otherwise). If you choose to practice, then keep your expectations in check. Not everyone improves at the same rate. That shit takes time, sometimes more than you're willing the spend.

Back to lurking for news / new games.

[Sapz]

The thing is most of what seems to be giving people trouble is the simple stuff like the pillbugs in Futari Original's stage 3. It's like Sapz explained to me, nobody should need a guide for that shit. All it requires is basic streaming skills anyone serious should develop when they're first starting out. But the fucking casuals here simply never had that moment where they take a look at what's killing them and realize there's a way to manipulate the bullets to make it easy to dodge. Most people who do clear it do so by just mindlessly flailing around until they reach the end with an inevitably terrible score. That's because to the average poster here, playing League of Legends, watching the latest gamemovie, or even shitposting here all take higher priority over getting good at shmups. What I'm saying is it's not worth your time to teach people how to play; people who want to get good and not just play for bad scores and easy clears will get good on their own. Shmups chat is best enjoyed just trolling and laughing at the huge amount of shitposting.

I dunno how you managed to interpret it like that; I disagree with a lot of this. This is exactly the kind of thing people do need help with, at least before they develop the necessary skills to create their own strategies easily, which is something gained through a lot of practice (IIRC it took me at least a year to learn how to do this even at a basic level). The thing that gives high scorers an edge is usually not something obscure like talent or inherent skill or whatever, but simple analysis and knowledge of why they're dying or missing out on points. I often see people mention that they died because the game is hard or something, rather than a concrete reason such as 'I ran out of streaming space for this attack' (typical Futari Original death) or 'I didn't attack this enemy fast enough and got overwhelmed' (typical Ketsui death) - I believe learning how to approach the games like this, with the idea in mind that you can learn from these deaths and not do the same thing next time, is the fastest way to improve. Analyzing a game like this is difficult at first, but gets easier the more you try to do it.

I'll also go ahead and say that there's absolutely nothing wrong with someone not interested in playing the games like this and playing casually instead, because y'know, they're goddamn video games and are inherently just for fun. People seem to be forgetting this lately.

[Nifty]

That's because to the average poster here, playing League of Legends, watching the latest gamemovie, or even shitposting here all take higher priority over getting good at shmups. What I'm saying is it's not worth your time to teach people how to play; people who want to get good and not just play for bad scores and easy clears will get good on their own. Shmups chat is best enjoyed just trolling and laughing at the huge amount of shitposting.

As long as everything is blown colossally out of proportion, there's no need to worry about it improving