Death of America and Freedom

[trap15]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off ... eparedness

Welcome to martial law my friends (and not Tekken, sadly).

[Blackbird]

Here we go again -_-...

[Skykid]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off ... eparedness

That's not much fun to read. Do you want to clarify the ramifications?

[njiska]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-off ... eparedness

That's not much fun to read. Do you want to clarify the ramifications?

Preferably a functional breakdown, not hysteria.

[mesh control]

All I got out was if shit hits the fan, this stuff is going to happen. I didn't see too much pertaining to civilians (I skimmed through it )

Oh well.

[Ex-Cyber]

AFAICT this is basically saying that federal agencies have to make plans to take over critical supply chains (food, water, fuel, transportation, etc.) in case of a national emergency. I would be quite surprised if this isn't just updating policies that have been in place since the Cold War.

Anyway, the Obama administration has already publicly claimed the authority to assassinate US citizens without trial if a secret government sniff-test panel returns a verdict of terror-smell (I hope they have higher standards than that, but there's no way to know). Compared to that, this seems pretty tame.

[Moniker]

All I got out was if shit hits the fan, this stuff is going to happen. I didn't see too much pertaining to civilians (I skimmed through it )

Oh well.

You missed the provision that gives the Cigarette Smoking Man authority to use FEMA death camps to create an alien-human hybrid and fake the moon landing.

[louisg]

AFAICT this is basically saying that federal agencies have to make plans to take over critical supply chains (food, water, fuel, transportation, etc.) in case of a national emergency. I would be quite surprised if this isn't just updating policies that have been in place since the Cold War.

Anyway, the Obama administration has already publicly claimed the authority to assassinate US citizens without trial if a secret government sniff-test panel returns a verdict of terror-smell (I hope they have higher standards than that, but there's no way to know). Compared to that, this seems pretty tame.

Ha. That was my reaction, too.

[szycag]

... the Obama administration has already publicly claimed the authority to assassinate US citizens without trial....

You're talking about this right? It's no longer in the NDAA.
http://freakoutnation.com/2012/03/04/pr ... n-of-ndaa/

[louisg]

... the Obama administration has already publicly claimed the authority to assassinate US citizens without trial....

You're talking about this right? It's no longer in the NDAA.
http://freakoutnation.com/2012/03/04/pr ... n-of-ndaa/

No, that is only the detention part. This is the targeting-people-with-drones part. People have been targeted already and the case made by the government, at least publically, has been pretty damn weak so far.

[Damocles]

With regards to killing American citizens: " 'Due process' and 'judicial process' are not one and the same, particularly when it comes to national security."

[szycag]

shit

[Acid King]

With regards to killing American citizens: " 'Due process' and 'judicial process' are not one and the same, particularly when it comes to national security."

Also, the DOJ refuses to discuss how it interprets portions of the PATRIOT Act so there's no telling how it is actually being applied.

The dispute centers on what the government thinks it is allowed to do under Section 215 of the Patriot Act, under which agents may obtain a secret order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court allowing them to get access to any “tangible things” — like business records — that are deemed “relevant” to a terrorism or espionage investigation.

There appears to be both an ordinary use for Section 215 orders — akin to using a grand jury subpoena to get specific information in a traditional criminal investigation — and a separate, classified intelligence collection activity that also relies upon them.

The interpretation of Section 215 that authorizes this secret surveillance operation is apparently not obvious from a plain text reading of the provision, and was developed through a series of classified rulings by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

The letter from Mr. Wyden and Mr. Udall also complained that while the Obama administration told Congress in August 2009 that it would establish “a regular process for reviewing, redacting and releasing significant opinions” of the court, since then “not a single redacted opinion has been released.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/us/po ... .html?_r=3

[shmuppyLove]

Fuck yeah it's cowboy time

[ED-057]

Rocky Anderson does not support the NDAA, does not support expanded government surveillance without accountability for spying on US citizens, supports repealing provisions of the Patriot Act to restore civil liberties, etc., etc.
http://www.voterocky.org/rocky_barack_mitt

[neorichieb1971]

Americans and their freedom lol.

Freedom to go abroad? - Most expensive passports in the world?
Freedom to health care? - Most expensive healthcare in the world?
Freedom to good education? - Most expensive (good) education system in the world?


The 3 fundamentals. Once your rich, your free.

As for the post topic at hand. Its wrong for a policy of that nature to be written in the world as it is today! Do they know something we don't?
In the near future we will be rationed. Because the world isn't getting any bigger. It should be better to get rid of a few people rather than build technology to support an ever increasing population.

[JBC]

The land of the free makes up only 5% of the world's population, but is home to 25% of it's prisoners.

[Moniker]

The land of the free makes up only 5% of the world's population, but is home to 25% of it's prisoners.

An alarming statistic. I have trouble believing it's a matter of false convictions (which no doubt happen, but not at that rate), so that leaves improper punishment or a culture of crime. Poverty and disparity of wealth probably affect the latter, although again, I have trouble believing the US is exceptional or even bad in absolute terms, at least regarding poverty. It's difficult since poverty is weighed very differently in different countries.

Some countries undoubtedly under-report. I'm mainly thinking China here, at least if their reported disease rates are anything to go by. I also wonder if alternative sentences to incarceration are practiced widely outside the US.

Ed?

[JBC]

improper punishment

There is a law against everything and 'justice' is akin to getting someone's money. It's pretty bad, I live in the #1 state for it right now and can't leave my apartment without seeing blue lights on the side of the road.

[Acid King]

The land of the free makes up only 5% of the world's population, but is home to 25% of it's prisoners.

As fucked as our justice system is, the plus side is that Americans generally don't have to worry about going to jail over twitter posts or for wearing religious attire. But since we raid health food stores with SWAT teams for selling raw milk, I guess it's a wash.

An alarming statistic. I have trouble believing it's a matter of false convictions (which no doubt happen, but not at that rate), so that leaves improper punishment or a culture of crime. Poverty and disparity of wealth probably affect the latter, although again, I have trouble believing the US is exceptional or even bad in absolute terms, at least regarding poverty. It's difficult since poverty is weighed very differently in different countries.

If it was related to crime rate, then by all measures incarceration rates should be dropping since crime has been on a steady decline over the past 30+ years. From my readings it's largely a result of agressive enforcement coupled with harsh/long prison sentences. Mandatory minimums and three strikes laws can put people behind bars for a long time for relatively minor infractions. Then you have the incredible federalization of crime, where basically everything under the sun can be prosecuted in either state or federal court, where the federal statute is almost always is more harsh than the state standard. Prosecutors can use the threat of federal trials to leverage plea bargains and those that do gamble with trials are often subject to harsh federal mandatory minimums. Around 1.5 million people are arrested for drug possesion alone, a few hundred thousand more for sales/production. A quick look at federal sentencing guidelines for trafficking and production and it's easy to understand how that may affect incarceration rate.

[Aliquantic]

Ah, the good old War on Drugs!

[neorichieb1971]

Is a shoot out in a school considered Terrorism in the USA?

Or does it only apply if the person guilty of it is not a citizen?

[Moniker]

Is a shoot out in a school considered Terrorism in the USA?

Or does it only apply if the person guilty of it is not a citizen?

If this is an earnest question, generally acts considered to be terrorism are politically motivated. Tim McVeigh (Oklahoma City bombing) was a US citizen and was considered a terrorist, because he had an anti-federal agenda. School shootouts aren't usually considered terrorism because it's a teenager, and considered more a psychological/social problem.

[evil_ash_xero]

Don't you guys know "Freedom isn't free...No, there's a hefty fuckin' fee"???

[Acid King]

Don't you guys know "Freedom isn't free...No, there's a hefty fuckin' fee"???

Everyone knows freedom costs a buck o' five.