Shumpping on the 360

MichiyoNoShiroIV · Post by **MichiyoNoShiroIV** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:15 am

I'm not sure if anybody is aware but Treasure is on Board for the 360.

what can we expect from a next gen Shump?

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:45 am

Just because they signed up, doesn't mean they'll develop for it. They did Silpheed, Stretch Panic, and that Tiny Toons game for the PS2. But it's Gradius 5 what people talk about. And it wasn't an original game by them.

Post by **Ghegs** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:15 am

And even if they develop for it, they might not make a shmup. Like Spec said, they do other types of games as well. And I really doubt X360 will be any more popular as a shmup-console as the XBox.

I'm moving this to Shmups Chat since this isn't hardware-related as such, and we can use this thread to speculate on whether Microsoft's next giant baby will get any Shooting Love.

Oh, and it's shmup, not shump.

MichiyoNoShiroIV · Post by **MichiyoNoShiroIV** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:36 am

Ghegs wrote:And even if they develop for it, they might not make a shmup. Like Spec said, they do other types of games as well. And I really doubt X360 will be any more popular as a shmup-console as the XBox.

I'm moving this to Shmups Chat since this isn't hardware-related as such, and we can use this thread to speculate on whether Microsoft's next giant baby will get any Shooting Love.

Oh, and it's shmup, not shump.

Well a Next Gen Gunstar Heroes is drool worthy.

Dartagnan1083 · Post by **Dartagnan1083** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:40 am

The Gunstar Sequel is currently set for GBA, and it's unlikely that they'll revive the same exact property so soon after the fact.

Frankly, I'm looking forward to a Treasure game that's COMPLETELY unrelated to their previous outings.

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:09 pm

My money is on the X360 being just as inconsequential as the Xbox. With Sega long gone from the hardware race, PS3 will no doubt be the undefeated shmupping system to have (barring some unlikely new strategy from Nintendo). X360 will probably get a couple ports here and there, just like the Xbox did, but nothing to write home about. I wouldn't count on a new Treasure shooter on the X360, regardless of any support they've claimed, because it probably won't happen.

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:34 pm

There will be a new Geomerty Wars game on the new Project Gothem Racing game on the xbox360...

http://www.geometrywars.com/img/gwars_main_02.gif

I loved the last game so I'm looking forward to this one!

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:40 pm

Accutron wrote:My money is on the X360 being just as inconsequential as the Xbox. With Sega long gone from the hardware race, PS3 will no doubt be the undefeated shmupping system to have (barring some unlikely new strategy from Nintendo). X360 will probably get a couple ports here and there, just like the Xbox did, but nothing to write home about. I wouldn't count on a new Treasure shooter on the X360, regardless of any support they've claimed, because it probably won't happen.

I don't even think that the PS3 will be that great in terms of shmupping. It won't be too long before it comes out in Japan, and there hasn't been one single shmup annouced for it. I seriously doubt that we'll see any console again that will even come close to the Saturn or the J-PS2, in terms of numbers of shmups released.

Yes, the J-PS3 will be backwards compatible, but, as I've pointd out many times before on this site, considering the fact that there are PS1 shmups that either won't work or have major glitches on the PS2, there are very likely to be some PS2 shmups that will not run or run with glitches on the PS3.

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:06 pm

I think the 360 will devoid of any shmups unless they are emulated ala XBox/mame.

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:13 pm

dave4shmups wrote:I don't even think that the PS3 will be that great in terms of shmupping. It won't be too long before it comes out in Japan, and there hasn't been one single shmup annouced for it.

I think it's incredibly premature to surmise that the PS3 will be weak on shmups. Devs are getting by just fine with the PS2, and can count on backwards compatibility to carry them onto the PS3 without having to invest in an immature system with a new architecture and no established benefits. You should be counting the number of shmups announced for PS2 since last E3. The bulk of the genre will almost certainly be carried by the PS3 in the upcoming generation, so if the PS3 is weak on shmups, it means the genre is weak on releases, and has nothing to do with the system itself.

Grinning Cat · Post by **Grinning Cat** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:15 pm

dave4shmups wrote:I seriously doubt that we'll see any console again that will even come close to the Saturn or the J-PS2, in terms of numbers of shmups released.

Why not? Everyone said the exact same thing when the PS2 first launched.

MichiyoNoShiroIV · Post by **MichiyoNoShiroIV** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:29 pm

We can't really count out the 360 yet.

Shmups are pretty popular in Japan still (unlike here where I think we're the only fanbase) so if Microsoft wants to win Japan over there will probably be alot of them.

neoalphazero · Post by **neoalphazero** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:08 pm

Treasure was also signed as a developer for Xbox when it came out and we haven't seen anything from them.

Don't forget G.Rev is disclosing their 360 plans this month (their latest magazine seems to mention they have a number of announcements for this month), that will likely be a shmup. *-neo

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:12 am

neoalphazero wrote:Treasure was also signed as a developer for Xbox when it came out and we haven't seen anything from them.

Don't forget G.Rev is disclosing their 360 plans this month (their latest magazine seems to mention they have a number of announcements for this month), that will likely be a shmup. *-neo

I hope, a sequel to Border Down?

Be praying...
Be praying...
Be praying...

MichiyoNoShiroIV · Post by **MichiyoNoShiroIV** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:16 am

ROBOTRON wrote:
neoalphazero wrote:Treasure was also signed as a developer for Xbox when it came out and we haven't seen anything from them.

Don't forget G.Rev is disclosing their 360 plans this month (their latest magazine seems to mention they have a number of announcements for this month), that will likely be a shmup. *-neo
I hope, a sequel to Border Down?

Be praying...
Be praying...
Be praying...

if it is.....it will be even more fucking hard

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:45 am

Accutron wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:I don't even think that the PS3 will be that great in terms of shmupping. It won't be too long before it comes out in Japan, and there hasn't been one single shmup annouced for it.
I think it's incredibly premature to surmise that the PS3 will be weak on shmups. Devs are getting by just fine with the PS2, and can count on backwards compatibility to carry them onto the PS3 without having to invest in an immature system with a new architecture and no established benefits. You should be counting the number of shmups announced for PS2 since last E3. The bulk of the genre will almost certainly be carried by the PS3 in the upcoming generation, so if the PS3 is weak on shmups, it means the genre is weak on releases, and has nothing to do with the system itself.

Ok, granted that I was being premature, nontheless, you missed my entire point about backwards compatibility between the PS1 and PS2. Since there are PS1 shmups that will not run, or that run with bugs, on the PS2, then it is only logical to expect that there will be PS2 shmups that will not run, or only run with bugs, on the PS3. And we don't even know which titles those will be; they may indeed end up being some of the more highly regarded PS2 shmups.

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:03 am

dave4shmups wrote:you missed my entire point about backwards compatibility between the PS1 and PS2. Since there are PS1 shmups that will not run, or that run with bugs, on the PS2, then it is only logical to expect that there will be PS2 shmups that will not run, or only run with bugs, on the PS3.

Who knows, there may or may not be compatibility issues with some PS2 games, but there's no way to know for sure until the system's out. Comparing PS1/PS2 compatibility to PS2/PS3 is pointless...you can't extrapolate a conclusion about the latter based on the former, because all three systems have different architectures.

al138 · Post by **al138** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:15 am

Here is an honest prediction:

The XBox 360 will not see a shooter released in the US. That's it, plain and simple. This system is likely dead in the water when it comes to the genre.

the2bears · Post by **the2bears** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:19 am

Danny wrote:There will be a new Geomerty Wars game on the new Project Gothem Racing game on the xbox360...

http://www.geometrywars.com/img/gwars_main_02.gif

I loved the last game so I'm looking forward to this one!

I saw two screen shots in an Edge issue... the 360 is close to must have for me now (this, Neon, and Mutant Storm II).

Bill

kong · Post by **kong** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:37 am

Even in Japan I doubt the 360 will see much shmup support. With the soaring gas prices and the economic fallout of Katrina the 360 is going to launch at a terrible time in the US and I highly doubt it will fare well in the Japanese market.

I just hope Sony will continue to support the ps2 for a few more years. I doubt we'll see shmup support early in either next gen console's lineup, since it's seen as an old dead genre by mainstream gamers/media.

Viva la Ps2! (even though I hate Sony)

gs68 · Post by **gs68** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:07 am

I don't have a good feeling about shmups on any of the next-gen consoles. Those consoles will be so powerful that shmups will seem pretty silly to play on them, plus by then no casual gamer will give a shit about 2D games (besides the obvious SMB, Legend of Zelda, Duck Hunt, and a few others).

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:23 pm

Could somebody please tell me why, in the midst of the biggest comeback shmups have ever made, people are doom-and-glooming about the survival of the genre into the next gen? What evidence do we have that shmups are going to die in the next 5 years? Shmups survived the transition to 3D, and once 3D matured, we started seeing games like Border Down, SNS and Gradius V. Meanwhile, Cave is chugging out sprite-based shmups like there's gonna be a pixel shortage. Anybody who thinks the genre is dying wasn't around to see it a few years ago.

MichiyoNoShiroIV · Post by **MichiyoNoShiroIV** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:10 pm

gs68 wrote:I don't have a good feeling about shmups on any of the next-gen consoles. Those consoles will be so powerful that shmups will seem pretty silly to play on them, plus by then no casual gamer will give a shit about 2D games (besides the obvious SMB, Legend of Zelda, Duck Hunt, and a few others).

2d fighters will live forever

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:05 pm

Accutron wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:you missed my entire point about backwards compatibility between the PS1 and PS2. Since there are PS1 shmups that will not run, or that run with bugs, on the PS2, then it is only logical to expect that there will be PS2 shmups that will not run, or only run with bugs, on the PS3.
Who knows, there may or may not be compatibility issues with some PS2 games, but there's no way to know for sure until the system's out. Comparing PS1/PS2 compatibility to PS2/PS3 is pointless...you can't extrapolate a conclusion about the latter based on the former, because all three systems have different architectures.

Yes, but all three are backwards compatible, regardless of their different architectures, so I hardly see how this is pointless. Whatever, if there are no issues, I will be very surprised.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:10 pm

Accutron wrote:Could somebody please tell me why, in the midst of the biggest comeback shmups have ever made, people are doom-and-glooming about the survival of the genre into the next gen? What evidence do we have that shmups are going to die in the next 5 years? Shmups survived the transition to 3D, and once 3D matured, we started seeing games like Border Down, SNS and Gradius V. Meanwhile, Cave is chugging out sprite-based shmups like there's gonna be a pixel shortage. Anybody who thinks the genre is dying wasn't around to see it a few years ago.

All good points, but the bottom line is that, despite their comeback, there is simply no arguing that shmups remain a genre that is NOT mainstream; shmups haven't been mainstream (at least in this country) since the 16-bit era, and never will be. 3D games are here to stay and there's no reason to assume that they will not retain their dominance. Cave is the company producing the most shmups, but they are the only gaming company that are "chugging out sprite-based shmups like there's gonna be a pixel shortage" and they are not going to last forever.

And prediciting that there will be no shmups for the 360 is entirely different from arguing that the genre is dying; it's simply being realistic. Xyanide will probably be the only original XBOX shmup, so if there's only one on the XBOX, given that the 360 will be even more 3D-focused, how can one argue otherwise?

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:20 pm

Accutron wrote:Could somebody please tell me why, in the midst of the biggest comeback shmups have ever made, people are doom-and-glooming about the survival of the genre into the next gen? What evidence do we have that shmups are going to die in the next 5 years? Shmups survived the transition to 3D, and once 3D matured, we started seeing games like Border Down, SNS and Gradius V. Meanwhile, Cave is chugging out sprite-based shmups like there's gonna be a pixel shortage. Anybody who thinks the genre is dying wasn't around to see it a few years ago.

I guess one worry is that, with the next gen consoles, developing becomes more and more expensive with a need for larger development teams and consequently there will be fewer who are willing to take risks on less popular genres.

Of course, if the arcade scene stays healthy, then you might see ports from there. But it sounds as though arcades in Japan have fewer and fewer videogames, and more and more photo booths, etc. This definitely worries me.

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:56 pm

dave4shmups wrote:Yes, but all three are backwards compatible, regardless of their different architectures, so I hardly see how this is pointless. Whatever, if there are no issues, I will be very surprised.

The PS2 has semi-independent PS1 hardware inside it to do the dirty work. The PS3, IIRC, is supposed to run PS2 titles through software emulation. What it comes down to is that the three architectures are not natively compatible through actual hardware fidelity. You might as well assume that a PC running 7800 games through 7800 emulator will have the same compatibility problems as an actual 7800 running 2600 games through the embedded TIA hardware. Apples and oranges.

I'm not expecting shmups to make some huge break back into the mainstream. I'm expecting them to maintain the status quo, with PS3-era PS2 releases at first, then actual PS3 releases once the developers cut their teeth with enough big 3D games.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:22 pm

If people will be buying the shmups, they will be released. Can you see the demand dying in the next few years? I cant. More people are gonna be realising what proper gaming is all about! Its the same with drum and bass, more and more it appears on TV and the charts(in the last year more dnb vinyl was bought than any other). And a few years ago people were saying dnb was dead. If its good it cant remain hidden forever

umm, i'm pissed but I think that made sense....

ok I dont actually know.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:21 am

Accutron wrote:
The PS2 has semi-independent PS1 hardware inside it to do the dirty work. The PS3, IIRC, is supposed to run PS2 titles through software emulation. What it comes down to is that the three architectures are not natively compatible through actual hardware fidelity. You might as well assume that a PC running 7800 games through 7800 emulator will have the same compatibility problems as an actual 7800 running 2600 games through the embedded TIA hardware. Apples and oranges.

I'm not expecting shmups to make some huge break back into the mainstream. I'm expecting them to maintain the status quo, with PS3-era PS2 releases at first, then actual PS3 releases once the developers cut their teeth with enough big 3D games.

The good thing about PS3 emulation, IIRC, is that Sony is actually paying emulator authors to create those emulators. And if Sony is giving them access to the code and libraries of the PS1 and 2, they should be able to perfectly emulate the systems, given what has been achieved on the PC, and without access to the original code.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:32 am

Specineff wrote:
Accutron wrote:
The PS2 has semi-independent PS1 hardware inside it to do the dirty work. The PS3, IIRC, is supposed to run PS2 titles through software emulation. What it comes down to is that the three architectures are not natively compatible through actual hardware fidelity. You might as well assume that a PC running 7800 games through 7800 emulator will have the same compatibility problems as an actual 7800 running 2600 games through the embedded TIA hardware. Apples and oranges.

I'm not expecting shmups to make some huge break back into the mainstream. I'm expecting them to maintain the status quo, with PS3-era PS2 releases at first, then actual PS3 releases once the developers cut their teeth with enough big 3D games.
The good thing about PS3 emulation, IIRC, is that Sony is actually paying emulator authors to create those emulators. And if Sony is giving them access to the code and libraries of the PS1 and 2, they should be able to perfectly emulate the systems, given what has been achieved on the PC, and without access to the original code.

OK, I stand corrected guys; thanks for that info.

I still wonder, though if one is thinking about buying a J-PSTwo if it would be better to wait for the J-PS3.