Futari stage 3 harder than stage 5

[Obscura]

Well, after reading the thread, I was inspired to give Futari a few go's tonight.

5 credits, 5 failures to make it past the second half of stage 3. I have no idea how I'm supposed to be aggressive when I'm trapped between lines of purple.

Also, I really can't stand the thought of ever seeing that game's first stage again in my life.

1. Use Palm. He's fast so he can take those ball dudes out pretty quickly before it gets really dense.

2. Remember where those hidden dudes are. You know, the ones that shoot the pink patterned bullets? Take those guys out ASAP. Anticipate when they will emerge and apply that laser.

3. The very end of Stage 3 before the boss gets hairy and involves some aggressive sweeping through relatively dense firepower. If I remember correctly, it's best to move towards the enemy as they are moving towards you so you don't get trapped in one of the corners. Just have a general sense of the direction of the enemies and try to kill them before they kill you.

4. You know those enemies that shoot giant balls on both sides and regular sized bullets? Try and chill right in front, right in the middle, and tap dodge the smaller bullets while applying laser. It's hard to get hit that way.


I hope that helps. Also, training modes can save you from getting burnt out of earlier levels. But beware, don't abuse it, or else you'll get burnt out on that level!

Training mode isn't an option, since I'm playing it via MAME (which doesn't support savestates for SH-3 games).

When you say the hidden guys, do you mean the green ones, or the woodlice that shoot the lines instead of the aimed balls? If the latter, how does killing them quickly do any good? As far as I can tell, they fire as soon as they appear, and once they've fired it's too late to do anything about it.

[TLB]

What I don't get is how you do all this silly stuff like your recent poll:

4. is this dimahoo y/n explain

5. Should each of the 150+ members of CAVE perform fellatio on YGW?
y/y
5a. Obvious.

and your "MONKEY CHEESE SO RANDOM NON SEQUITUR" post in Dead Pool,

Uh...can a guy not post for shits and giggles? Parts of both of those posts were serious, anyway.

and then berate us for being off topic or retarded or unskilled or whatever.

Uh...Did I tell you to go to your room without dinner? I suggested positive alternatives to the random, noisy shitposting that floods this server week after week. I have only offered to help, and have given extra advice in PMs when I thought it might be useful. Either find me some good reasons for saying I've berated people for being unskilled or take it back. Quote some shit.

You seem to be failing to realize that the revolution has already begun, and all you have to do is go with the flow. Change your own posting habits and become a part of history.

I probably shouldn't expect an honest reply because you've clearly gone off the deep end.

Random ad hominem shitposting ftw. What is "the deep end", how do I "go off" it, etc.

I've got no reason to pretend anything otherwise: My main motive is to see the western STG scene prosper in a better way than a dead pair of forums that are about playing (alongside another pair of wildly active forums that are all about not playing). It only takes a little contribution from a lot of people. We have a lot of people, but contribution from a tiny amount of them. One player spends 10 minutes analyzing a stage and jots down some notes. Two days later, they do it again. Two weeks later, they post a detailed round 1 survival analysis of Ketsui for some shmup noob to take advantage of...or should we say any number of shmup noobs over any number of years? It's not hard, it builds the skill and competition level of the community, and everyone benefits.

It's pretty OT in here. Sorry, Illyrian. Shit happens.

[finisherr]

Well, after reading the thread, I was inspired to give Futari a few go's tonight.

5 credits, 5 failures to make it past the second half of stage 3. I have no idea how I'm supposed to be aggressive when I'm trapped between lines of purple.

Also, I really can't stand the thought of ever seeing that game's first stage again in my life.

1. Use Palm. He's fast so he can take those ball dudes out pretty quickly before it gets really dense.

2. Remember where those hidden dudes are. You know, the ones that shoot the pink patterned bullets? Take those guys out ASAP. Anticipate when they will emerge and apply that laser.

3. The very end of Stage 3 before the boss gets hairy and involves some aggressive sweeping through relatively dense firepower. If I remember correctly, it's best to move towards the enemy as they are moving towards you so you don't get trapped in one of the corners. Just have a general sense of the direction of the enemies and try to kill them before they kill you.

4. You know those enemies that shoot giant balls on both sides and regular sized bullets? Try and chill right in front, right in the middle, and tap dodge the smaller bullets while applying laser. It's hard to get hit that way.


I hope that helps. Also, training modes can save you from getting burnt out of earlier levels. But beware, don't abuse it, or else you'll get burnt out on that level!

Training mode isn't an option, since I'm playing it via MAME (which doesn't support savestates for SH-3 games).

When you say the hidden guys, do you mean the green ones, or the woodlice that shoot the lines instead of the aimed balls? If the latter, how does killing them quickly do any good? As far as I can tell, they fire as soon as they appear, and once they've fired it's too late to do anything about it.

If the woodlice are the round balls that shoot those tiny purple dots, then you wanna sweep across as fast as you can with regular shot to take them out. Sure, they start firing immediately, but if you don't take them out quickly it'll pile on fast. The green hidden dudes who shoot those patterned pink bullets are tricky as well. You can hit them with the laser as soon as they appear. You can easily get the first shot on those guys if you know when and where they emerge.

In Manic and God Mode (Don't know about ultra, as I never play it), it's helpful to understand the flow of getting the bar in the red with shot and popping a bunch of enemies with laser while in the red (of course, while sweeping and dodging). If you do understand the rhythm, you can do so without ever having to really look at the bar. This produces more gems and more slowdown, and consequently, more time to thread enemy firepower. Trying to bring upon slowdown might sound like cheating, but it's super helpful.

[TLB]

If the woodlice are the round balls that shoot those tiny purple dots, then you wanna sweep across as fast as you can with regular shot to take them out.

I pick a starting point at the extreme of the screen to ensure I can get through the pattern if I need to.

[finisherr]

Also, Obscura, I highly recommend buying Futari for Xbox 360. The mame version of Futari looks cool on a CRT and all, really cool, but the gameplay is off. With the console port you'll have accurate gameplay and an opportunity to purchase Black Label as DLC, which RULES. Leaderboard videos are fun to watch, because the skill level is baffling. Training modes can be handy if you grow tired of playing earlier stages. Also, it's a greatest hit, so it's cheap.

You get the picture. Buy the game.

[Obscura]

I don't own an XBox or a TV, so the Xbox version isn't an option.

[Illyrian]

Waking up this morning and reading the last 3 pages of shitstorm was an...experience.

I'm so happy right now.

[finisherr]

Gotcha. I personally want a candy cab+Futari black label. Don't really have a spare 2000 to spend on something like that. But, one can dream...

[stryc9]

The woodlice section in the last part of stage 3 has a reputation for being a pain in the arse, and I agree from my personal experience from Original and Maniac.

After practicing strategies to deal with it I no longer get hit there, it just doesn't happen. Personally the epiphany came when instead of sticking to the bottom part of the screen, I just charge aggressively towards the woodlice, weaving in between the lines before they even spread out (not difficult because of the slowdown), and just kill the bastards like that. Being proactive with the fuckers works.

I also agree that stages 4 and 5 are easier - I'm pretty sure I no missed stage 4 on my first full run (Original) and was surprised how easy it was to lock that shit down. Stage 5 is just an endurance test full of streaming fast bullets - theres not a lot of crossfire to contend with there so it also went down pretty quickly on my journey to the 1CC. You just can't afford to blink though, that's all.

I think after having the game for a bit over a year, the Stage 4 boss is the only real problem for me in the whole thing. IMO it's the hardest part of the game - if I'm gona lose a life anywhere it's there. (Not counting Larsa but I just bomb the fuck outta her, so I'm not qualified to say).

But even that can be overcome with a bit of practice - It's only a couple of patterns that are a threat to me anyway.

[xris]

I think that stage 5 has an easier feeling to it for a couple reasons, first - everything dies pretty quickly, and in mass quantities. The mid boss is a joke. And, a big reason is there is this extra goal of getting all the lanterns, so you learn to juke through everything without really caring about dieing or killing everything. And it's fun. There the extra life that you need to grab up high on the screen, right after getting the four lanterns you can't bomb. I don't think I kill that Dino there at all, ever. Then the two big dragons feel like a break as you try to get that last group of four lanterns, sometimes you don't get them all, but it's tricky enough that you don't let it throw the rhythm of the game. These are the kind of things that are fun, and also add the correct amount of challenge. I do find the very beginning of 5 kind of hard, after that first big wave of enemies and lanterns the rest is fun and easy as hell. Screw that pig Larsa, never beaten her.
4 is a lot easier if your willing to bomb if you have to once in awhile. Maybe I should watch a couple of replays, everyone claims 4 is dreamy, I don't get it - hard enough for me. Everything takes too long to die. I have that feeling for 5.

[dinosaurjerk]

i don't like roly polys [grosser than lizards] so it's harder

[Gus]

I always just kind of laugh when people act like stage 3 in Original mode is somehow difficult. Go play that shit in Ultra and realize how terrible you actually are.

[dunpeal2064]

I always just kind of laugh when people act like stage 3 in Original mode is somehow difficult. Go play that shit in Ultra and realize how terrible you actually are.

If only I could ever get past stage 1.

Hate that stage 1

[AntiFritz]

I always just kind of laugh when people act like stage 3 in Original mode is somehow difficult. Go play that shit in Ultra and realize how terrible you actually are.

Yes theirs always something harder and yes your a pro, we get it.

[Marc]

What I don't get is how you do all this silly stuff like your recent poll:

4. is this dimahoo y/n explain

5. Should each of the 150+ members of CAVE perform fellatio on YGW?
y/y
5a. Obvious.

and your "MONKEY CHEESE SO RANDOM NON SEQUITUR" post in Dead Pool,

Uh...can a guy not post for shits and giggles? Parts of both of those posts were serious, anyway.

and then berate us for being off topic or retarded or unskilled or whatever.

Uh...Did I tell you to go to your room without dinner? I suggested positive alternatives to the random, noisy shitposting that floods this server week after week. I have only offered to help, and have given extra advice in PMs when I thought it might be useful. Either find me some good reasons for saying I've berated people for being unskilled or take it back. Quote some shit.

You seem to be failing to realize that the revolution has already begun, and all you have to do is go with the flow. Change your own posting habits and become a part of history.

I probably shouldn't expect an honest reply because you've clearly gone off the deep end.

Random ad hominem shitposting ftw. What is "the deep end", how do I "go off" it, etc.

I've got no reason to pretend anything otherwise: My main motive is to see the western STG scene prosper in a better way than a dead pair of forums that are about playing (alongside another pair of wildly active forums that are all about not playing). It only takes a little contribution from a lot of people. We have a lot of people, but contribution from a tiny amount of them. One player spends 10 minutes analyzing a stage and jots down some notes. Two days later, they do it again. Two weeks later, they post a detailed round 1 survival analysis of Ketsui for some shmup noob to take advantage of...or should we say any number of shmup noobs over any number of years? It's not hard, it builds the skill and competition level of the community, and everyone benefits.

It's pretty OT in here. Sorry, Illyrian. Shit happens.

I'd say the deep end is when a dude compares gaming to parasailing personally, or being so seemingly upset by the state of western players that he seems to think it entitles him to be as rude and condescending as you have been, as well as presenting opinion as irrefutable fact

Oh and sorry, much as it might bum you out, casual players do exist, and despite being casual, many will have played just as many titles as you for a long period of time. Deal with it. I enjoy my shooters, but if pads and pens come out it's to draw with my 2-year old, not to add clearing a shooter to my list of chores.

Oh and if you don't like the noise and shitposting etc, pretty sure there's a Strategy board dedicated to exactly that.

Reading some of the comments on here it's no fucking wonder this hobby can't reach a wider audience.

[TLB]

I'd say the deep end is when a dude compares gaming to parasailing personally, or being so seemingly upset by the state of western players that he seems to think it entitles him to be as rude and condescending as you have been, as well as presenting opinion as irrefutable fact

You're going to have to back that up.

Oh and sorry, much as it might bum you out, casual players do exist, and despite being casual, many will have played just as many titles as you for a long period of time. Deal with it. I enjoy my shooters, but if pads and pens come out it's to draw with my 2-year old, not to add clearing a shooter to my list of chores.

That's not what this is about at all. Grow the christ up.

Oh and if you don't like the noise and shitposting etc, pretty sure there's a Strategy board dedicated to exactly that.

I don't know if you paid attention to what I was saying at all, but it seemed to focus around western players not using the strategy board. Seems there was an imbalance that I mentioned. Hm...

Reading some of the comments on here it's no fucking wonder this hobby can't reach a wider audience.

Just keep living it up, guys. Take everything personally and bawl your eyes out when someone tells you something needs to change for the better.

[Skykid]

Hookay, drinks anyone?

See you at the bar in five.

[Illyrian]

Well that was easy then....

[CptRansom]

This is the best thread I've read in a long time.

Why is everyone taking all of this shit so personally? There are many people here who could stand to play better (myself VERY FUCKING MUCH included). If you're a casual player (again, like me), and you admit to being a casual player (me), and you're okay with being a casual player (me), then why the fuck are you getting upset when someone tells you you're not good at the games? There's nothing insulting about it; it's a simple statement of fact. Being casual isn't an insult or anything else; it simply means you aren't dedicating as much time and effort to getting good. If that's how you WANT to play, then play that way and fucking OWN it.

Don't bitch because you're not any good. Skill at anything doesn't just magically grow on trees. You have to work for it. If you're not willing to work for it, you're not going to get good at it. If you're okay with that, then be okay with that and don't get your panties in a twist when someone points out the obvious fact that casual players are unskilled.

There's my two cents from someone worse at these games than at least half this forum. I didn't feel insulted at all when I read about lacking basic skills; I felt inspired to try harder. I wish the rest of you had felt the same. =/

[Icarus]

Don't bitch because you're not any good.

Why not?

Skill at anything doesn't just magically grow on trees.

Yes, it does.

You have to work for it.

No, you don't.

If you're not willing to work for it, you're not going to get good at it.

Doesn't work that way.

If you're okay with that, then be okay with that and don't get your panties in a twist when someone points out the obvious fact that casual players are unskilled.

I don't wear panties.

I'm just kidding, by the way.

I do agree with m3tall1ca/TLB in that the Western shmupping community could be so much better skill-wise, but threads like this, and this argument in particular, don't really contribute much to the cause to be honest. I've always been of the opinion that if you want to see change, facilitate it in some fashion, and in the past decade+, I have seen a rise in the average ability of players here, but the increase is far too slow, and I've always felt that there is a lot holding the community back. Including:

1) Lack of access to resources
For one thing, Japan has always had a huge head-start in terms of access to particular resources. Replays and knowledge is shared within communities; arcades, while on the decline at present, are more widely available than they ever have been over here; publications are produced that cover niche topics and new releases. Over here, only a handful of top players share their resources and knowledge; there are no arcades; there are no publications that cover new releases, and share insider info and secrets.

2) Close-minded mentality
Lack of resources is one thing, but the drive to use said resources to improve yourself is another. All too often I see threads and posts bemoaning the use of replays, save states, stage and boss selects, and guides as "cheating", but these same people praise top Japanese players for their skill, without understanding that these top players have developed their skills using the same methods that we complain about. You don't like replays, but you have no problem watching someone over-the-shoulder at an arcade? Isn't that virtually the same thing?
This I reckon is the biggest barrier to progression at this community.

3) Lackadaisical, casual approach
Following on from above, another problem here is the all-too-casual approach: a lot of people complain about being horrible at these games, and yet do nothing to change their habits and make improvements. Positive changes starts with the self - if you think that your abilities could be better, look at your approach first and foremost, and change the bad habits. All too often I see posts stating "I'm terrible at these games" and yet in the same paragraph they'll mention that "using x or y is cheating". Um, okay. Enjoy being terrible at these games for years to come, then. The other thing that grinds my gears is when people link good practice habits to hard work. You don't have to work hard to be good at these games, just improve your knowledge and basic skills.

It's disappointing to know that we have nearly 8,000 members, perhaps 5-10% of that total is active, and out of that total, I could count the number of truly multi-skilled, inspiring and competitive players on two hands.

[Illyrian]

I certainly don't understand the problem with replays etc.

I will only try to learn a game normally if I can rip off a superplay wholesale, the only recent exception being house of the dead 3 which I'm learning to score in by myself.

Also for the record I actually wanted to have a proper discussion about difficulty balancing in futari and possibly other shmups in this thread, and this shitstorm is what I wake up to.

So to regress back to my original point, I'm not suggesting stage 3 of futari is too hard, or impossible, or anything like that. I'm saying the spikes in difficulty and last 30 seconds make it harder than stage 5 before larsa, as stage 5 has a smoother level of difficulty and I don't believe will catch you out as readily.

[CptRansom]

I don't wear panties.

I'm just kidding, by the way.

Perfect.

The other thing that grinds my gears is when people link good practice habits to hard work.

I've definitely guilty of this in the past (and still kind of am, but I also admit to being quite casual). At least I've stopped being anti-credit-feeding, and I've shown significant improvement since then. Now if only I could get save states working for me in MAME without screwing everything up...

[Skykid]

I do agree with m3tall1ca/TLB in that the Western shmupping community could be so much better skill-wise, but threads like this, and this argument in particular, don't really contribute much to the cause to be honest. I've always been of the opinion that if you want to see change, facilitate it in some fashion, and in the past decade+, I have seen a rise in the average ability of players here, but the increase is far too slow, and I've always felt that there is a lot holding the community back. Including:

1) Lack of access to resources
For one thing, Japan has always had a huge head-start in terms of access to particular resources. Replays and knowledge is shared within communities; arcades, while on the decline at present, are more widely available than they ever have been over here; publications are produced that cover niche topics and new releases. Over here, only a handful of top players share their resources and knowledge; there are no arcades; there are no publications that cover new releases, and share insider info and secrets.

2) Close-minded mentality
Lack of resources is one thing, but the drive to use said resources to improve yourself is another. All too often I see threads and posts bemoaning the use of replays, save states, stage and boss selects, and guides as "cheating", but these same people praise top Japanese players for their skill, without understanding that these top players have developed their skills using the same methods that we complain about. You don't like replays, but you have no problem watching someone over-the-shoulder at an arcade? Isn't that virtually the same thing?
This I reckon is the biggest barrier to progression at this community.

3) Lackadaisical, casual approach
Following on from above, another problem here is the all-too-casual approach: a lot of people complain about being horrible at these games, and yet do nothing to change their habits and make improvements. Positive changes starts with the self - if you think that your abilities could be better, look at your approach first and foremost, and change the bad habits. All too often I see posts stating "I'm terrible at these games" and yet in the same paragraph they'll mention that "using x or y is cheating". Um, okay. Enjoy being terrible at these games for years to come, then. The other thing that grinds my gears is when people link good practice habits to hard work. You don't have to work hard to be good at these games, just improve your knowledge and basic skills.

It's disappointing to know that we have nearly 8,000 members, perhaps 5-10% of that total is active, and out of that total, I could count the number of truly multi-skilled, inspiring and competitive players on two hands.

A sensible post with detail, clarity and humility. Holy shizwhiskers.

This thread has been a total fuck farm up until this point.

Now it's on a better course, here's my 2 bits on this:

It's disappointing to know that we have nearly 8,000 members, perhaps 5-10% of that total is active, and out of that total, I could count the number of truly multi-skilled, inspiring and competitive players on two hands.

I agree it is disappointing, but I can only speak for myself: I don't dedicate enough time to shmups. My general method tends to be learning to score, playing for score, getting a clear, walking away; and I don't manage to do that for all the shmups I'd like to. Once something is cleared, I tend to move on rather than repeat the process for a better score, and anyone who knows me personally (quite a few do) will know I play all sorts of videogames and have rather a diverse backlog. I'm into a variety of genres, and often spend several days just clearing a bunch of 8 and 16bit action titles off of the shelf.

If I dropped everything except shmups and developed a disciplined routine, I'm pretty confident I could roll with the high numbers - I think anyone could. When I knuckle down, I can get the results from shmups that I want. When I promise myself I'll clear something by pain of death, I put it in the cab and it never really takes too long. My biggest issue is whether or not I choose to play shmups strictly or continue to have a diluted diet, and I think I need the variety tbh.
That choice coupled with /real life driving me nuts/ means I won't ever be one of those top scorers.

I don't know about other folks here, but that's kind of where I come from regarding this.

[burgerkingdiamond]

you are so wrong. stage 5 is pretty brutal, especially if you have a lot of gems and the rank is up there. It's super fast and there's a ton more bullets than on stage 3.

I don't understand why everyone thinks stage 3 is so hard.

[Marc]

This is the best thread I've read in a long time.

Why is everyone taking all of this shit so personally? There are many people here who could stand to play better (myself VERY FUCKING MUCH included). If you're a casual player (again, like me), and you admit to being a casual player (me), and you're okay with being a casual player (me), then why the fuck are you getting upset when someone tells you you're not good at the games? There's nothing insulting about it; it's a simple statement of fact. Being casual isn't an insult or anything else; it simply means you aren't dedicating as much time and effort to getting good. If that's how you WANT to play, then play that way and fucking OWN it.

Don't bitch because you're not any good. Skill at anything doesn't just magically grow on trees. You have to work for it. If you're not willing to work for it, you're not going to get good at it. If you're okay with that, then be okay with that and don't get your panties in a twist when someone points out the obvious fact that casual players are unskilled.

There's my two cents from someone worse at these games than at least half this forum. I didn't feel insulted at all when I read about lacking basic skills; I felt inspired to try harder. I wish the rest of you had felt the same. =/

To be fair I haven't seen anyone taking anything personally, if I took offence at anything it's the condescending tone of certain post rather than the content. There have been many excellent players on these boards, just some are more friendly than others. Westerners aren't as skilled at these games on the whole, there's probably a number of reasons for that but I fail to grasp why it should be so important? If you're a top tier player, there's plenty of competition around, What's it matter where it comes from? If you're not, you either want to be, in which case there are strategy threads and discussion for you, or you don't care. I don't care and I get pissed to see some elitist arsehole wading into a discussion and talking to peoe like a fucking headmaster. Don't like what you're reading? Click the back button. The peoe interested in what you're saying are in the strategy thread. The rest of us are just shooting the shit and having a casual discussion because, just maybe, it doesn't really matter to us that we aren't as good as our Eastern competition. It's a shmup, it's not gonna get you laid for Christ's sake.

[Obscura]

For those talking about using replays, they're really not that helpful to a beginning player.

Take this vid, for instance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs62gXk0NyE

7:49, the fun starts. From there, I really have absolutely no idea what he's doing other than "dodge everything, shoot stuff". I have no idea what I'm supposed to take from this.

[finisherr]

Obscura, I totally agree. I have some some tips that I posted in the Strategy section not too long ago. They outline some lessons I've learned regarding general gameplay in bullet hell/cave titles. Watching videos can give you some ideas, but by no means follow it strictly. That won't help you learn how to dodge in the way that is best suited to your skill level.

[Gus]

Obscura, I totally agree. I have some some tips that I posted in the Strategy section not too long ago. They outline some lessons I've learned regarding general gameplay in bullet hell/cave titles. Watching videos can give you some ideas, but by no means follow it strictly. That won't help you learn how to dodge in the way that is best suited to your skill level.

I disagree. While superplays generally do feature scoring tricks that are way beyond most people's skill level they also tend to feature a lot of tricks to get past the seemingly difficult sections and give a general idea of the route to follow for the game.

As for the replay Obscura linked no offense to the guy who made but it's pretty horrible. The guy makes no effort to score and clearly has no idea how handle some parts that are really pretty easy if you know what you're doing. I thought it was common sense to stick to replays by people who had an idea how to play but I guess not. This replay isn't as good as the one on the top of the Xbox Live leaderboards but it's still way better than the one previously linked to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K06jfH_O ... re=related

[mesh control]

You just need help analyzing what's going on. Similar to sports-you sort of need to know the tools you have at your disposal (laser, rapid, bomb, movement speed) and the rules (enemy HP, patterns, formation, bullet cancels).

Ok, at 7:49-the start of the pillbug area, the player is still destroying popcorn enemies that are firing aimed bullets. If bullets are aimed and resemble a linear stream, chances are you can just tap dodge to get clear of them. The first hidden bug appears and it's pattern is fixed. The hidden bugs (along with the pill bugs) have higher HP so using the laser is the preferred method of destroying the larger enemies in this part of stage. Hidden bug is destroyed. Now the pill bugs come in and shoot the "spikey", linear patterns. The best thing to do is position yourself in between the first volley and use the laser to destroy the pill bugs. Once the rolling ones come in, tap dodge while using rapid to the right and destroy the next hidden bug. Continue using laser to destroy the bullet cancel beetle. You can apply that basic strategy to the rest of the area.
edit: this is by no means the optimal way to play for score.

My methods in not-quite-short:

[*]Observe
As you play, make a mental note of sections and patterns that are particularly difficult. When you come back to them in later credits (or via training modes), start to study what makes the section difficult - is it enemy placement or movements? a particular bullet pattern? difficult to score in? The more information you gather beforehand, the better placed you are to...


[*]Strategise
Now you know what the problem areas are, and roughly what can cause them, start to think of methods to defeat the problem. For example, if a particular bullet pattern causes you problems, determine the form of attack it is - fixed? splurge? aimed? - and then find a method to avoid it - aimed patterns generally can be tap-moved to avoid, fixed patterns have blindspots (like what I found for Batrider, among others), splurges can be led to fire in a particular direction and then sidestepped easily.

If you don't know any of the terms I used check out the glossary here:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9665

Maybe someone with more experience with the game can verify what I wrote about the stage.
(sorry my writing is so sporadic. I'm posting at work and don't want to get in trouble )

[Marc]

I'd say the deep end is when a dude compares gaming to parasailing personally, or being so seemingly upset by the state of western players that he seems to think it entitles him to be as rude and condescending as you have been, as well as presenting opinion as irrefutable fact

You're going to have to back that up.

Which bit, the one where you compared videogaming to a past time that could actually get you killed, or the bit where you said that stage 3 wasn't harder than stage 4 because you said so, and backed it up based upon your own viewpoint? Some people like fat chicks, and some would say that makes them idiots, it's all about the eye of the beholder. Except it isn't, because you know best right?

Oh and sorry, much as it might bum you out, casual players do exist, and despite being casual, many will have played just as many titles as you for a long period of time. Deal with it. I enjoy my shooters, but if pads and pens come out it's to draw with my 2-year old, not to add clearing a shooter to my list of chores.

That's not what this is about at all. Grow the christ up.

Not seeing your point there. Mine was, anyone that loves and plays shmups has a plce on this board, no matter what the skill level. You were the one that threw a fucking shitty analogy regarding 'casuals' into the mix?

Oh and if you don't like the noise and shitposting etc, pretty sure there's a Strategy board dedicated to exactly that.

I don't know if you paid attention to what I was saying at all, but it seemed to focus around western players not using the strategy board. Seems there was an imbalance that I mentioned. Hm...

You also bitched and moaned about the content of a thread, in the OFF TOPIC BOARD, that offended your superior shmupping sensibilities. Why, what the fuck are people doing talking about shit like that when they could be mapping out Cave games on graph paper?

Just keep living it up, guys. Take everything personally and bawl your eyes out when someone tells you something needs to change for the better.

Except the only person that's bawling is you. What, exactly, needs to change for the better? What the fuck does it matter where the overall skill level of the Western shmupper lies? Are you THAT obsessed? You know, back in the day, gaming took hold because it was a distraction from the daily grind - you know, fun? If your fun lies in approaching things from an analytic point, disassembling and picking apart these games until you can put them back together fully mastered with a 1'CC, then fair play to you man. I don't have the time for that, and I don't expect that anyone should be spoken down to for not being as 'dedicated' to these games, as you blatantly have done. Read you posts, and ask yourself if you'd be happy to be spoken to with that kind of tone or attitude. Can we not come here and have our discussions, no matter how wrong YOU might find them? And I say again, given the prevailing tone on this board most of the time, should Cave attract any newcomers, this place would probably scare them off for good. Honestly, Sapz (who wasn't posting here when I used to visit, so have no reason to mention specifically) seems the only genuinely nice pro on here these days.