Zen Pinball/FX2 and Pinball Arcade

[szycag]

EDIT: Pinball Arcade is up now on XBLA!

I'm on a huge pinball kick lately, especially after seeing the National Pinball Museum in Baltimore and playing the pretty well kept collection at Crab Towne USA. Been playing the hell out of Pinball FX2, and now I have every table available on 360 save for Ms. Splosion Man, which I'll probably get very soon. Just went kind of crazy, but I have yet to regret purchasing any of the tables. There's also the much-anticipated Pinball Arcade, from the guys who made Pinball Hall of Fame: Williams Collection, already out on iOS devices and coming to consoles near the end of March. I'm just curious what you guys think of the pinball experience coming to consoles and stuff the way it has. The HD era means finally having enough detail to make proper tables it seems, and sometimes with FX2 I don't even miss playing on the real thing, because making the shots and controlling the ball just feels so right. As much as shmups players love playing for score, pinball seems like a perfect fit too, but I'd be interested to hear why people don't enjoy pinball or only prefer playing it on real tables.

What tables are you hoping to see on Pinball Arcade? What could be improved with Zen/FX2's offerings so far? Does "superscore" matter to you or would you rather focus only on the tables you like? What camera angle do you like to use? (I prefer the fully zoomed out view most every time, view 6 in FX2.)

Also if you play a lot of FX2 or are planning to get Pinball Arcade on 360, please add me on XBL! Same handle on there as my forum name, szycag.



PS: Zen now has a PC version of it's pinball platform, and it's included in the consumer preview Windows 8 demo. You can get the Sorcerer's Lair table for free! Here's the link: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/download

[louisg]

This looks fantastic. All I can really run is the iOS version, but I thoroughly enjoyed the Williams disc for the Wii. I do want High Speed, and it's been omitted from all these discs so far. My only guess at this point is that they haven't been able to secure the rights, which is a shame as it's such a fun table. It has easy to remember rules, it's relatively simple, and so it's perfect for casual pinball fans such as myself.

As far as stuff that's already out, I do also really like the old pinball games like Epic Pinball's Android table, Pinball Dreams/Fantasies/whatever, Alien Crush and Devil Crush. They're not all that realistic, but I felt the detail was high enough to create an interesting table (even though recreating a real table would've been a mess). I have yet to play Pinball of the Dead and Metroid Pinball. I also have one of those Saturn pinball games with the blazing metal, but couldn't get into them (they do run in high res and are very detailed though).

[t0yrobo]

I'm pretty excited for Pinball Aracde on 360, I got it for android and it's the best pinball game I've played on there, but it still feels a little off. As much as I like Pinball FX I think the tables tend to be a little busy, some of the animated characters on the board are to much for my taste. Mainly I just want to be able to play real tables.

[BrianC]

I do want High Speed, and it's been omitted from all these discs so far. My only guess at this point is that they haven't been able to secure the rights, which is a shame as it's such a fun table. It has easy to remember rules, it's relatively simple, and so it's perfect for casual pinball fans such as myself.

It's probably not a rights issue. It was ported to NES. Nothing I read from Farsight suggests rights issues, especially since it's not a licenesed table. The only possible one I can think of is a ZZ Top song in The Getaway, but that's the sequel, which also managed to get a home version (though not a very good one). There are a ton of unlicensed tables, including stuff like Earthshaker, Space Station, Comet, Cyclone, and a ton of EMs that haven't been ported yet. I would like to see High Speed make it. However, other machines that weren't in previous collections like Attack from Mars and Circus Voltaire and even a couple lincensed ones like Creature from the Black Lagoon and Monster Bash have been announced. Bride of Pinbot hasn't been announced, but a making of video and some hints from Farsight suggest it's coming. Dr. Dude looks possible since it was shown in the making of Pinball Arcade video. There are probably some surprises in store from Farsight, as well (especially since they got the Stern license, which is mostly licensed tables, though it may cover stuff from the 70-80s Stern and Chicago Coin, which mostly isn't based on licensed properties).

[szycag]

High Speed

High Speed just has to be on there someday, that table is to pinball what Kind of Blue is to Jazz. There's just no confusing what you have to do which makes it instantly accessible and enjoyable even if you have no other frame of reference for playing pinball. I'd really like to see Jokerz and Bride of Pinbot too. I hope Medieval Madness comes out for Pinball Arcade soon, most all the resources should already be done from Hall of Fame and I want to play it with the proper physics.

One thing I thought I'd bring up is remastered sound. It's nice to have the original sounds and there should always be that option, but pinball tables are designed to be noisy as hell and that doesn't always lend itself to sitting down in front of your TV. I'm not asking for added music or anything, just some options for people who think the wacky FM-style sounds are too abrasive. As far as I know Pinball Arcade just goes for nailing down a completely accurate version of the table, but that's for better or worse trying to bring the machine into your living room.

[Estebang]

Why has there never been a digital pinball game that accurately reproduces the sound of activating a flipper? (Besides 3D Pinball Space Cadet, depressingly enough.)

It should be a weighty *THUNK*, not a piddly little slap.

[szycag]

Huh? I thought FX2's flipper sounds are pretty well thunky, myself

[t0yrobo]

The flippers always sounded a little odd in most games to me too. But that reminds me of something that's bothered me much more for quite awhile, the stunning lack of tate in pinball games, a 16:9 screen on it's side would be goddamn wonderful for some video pinball.

[louisg]

High Speed

High Speed just has to be on there someday, that table is to pinball what Kind of Blue is to Jazz. There's just no confusing what you have to do which makes it instantly accessible and enjoyable even if you have no other frame of reference for playing pinball.

Yesss! That's a perfect summary.

It's probably not a rights issue. It was ported to NES. Nothing I read from Farsight suggests rights issues, especially since it's not a licenesed table.

Hmm I was thinking more along the lines of this: It was ported to NES, so perhaps some other company wound up with the exclusive rights to make a software/home version of the table. I can't think of why it wouldn't be in any of these, since it was popular at the time. Here's hoping that or The Getaway makes an appearance!

So, I bought Pinball Arcade for iOS this morning. It seems very good, what little I played of it. I didn't like how the DLC was implemented though: The tables you don't yet own appear playable, but when you hit "start" the iTunes Store login prompt appears. What happens if you have the store remember your password?

I think it's something like $1 a table, which I'm assuming because that's how much the original app was (which includes one table). I can't find pricing info anywhere though. Pretty lame on their part to not be upfront about it.

[BrianC]

Hmm I was thinking more along the lines of this: It was ported to NES, so perhaps some other company wound up with the exclusive rights to make a software/home version of the table. I can't think of why it wouldn't be in any of these, since it was popular at the time. Here's hoping that or The Getaway makes an appearance!

High Speed is not licensed and nobody else has video game rights currently, aside from Farsight. I can't think of a reason why Black Knight 2000, Fireball, Eight Ball Deluxe, or Earthshaker aren't in any collection either (though Eight Ball Deluxe had Mac and DOS ports). Rare ported the game to NES. Since they haven't made any pinball games recently, I highly doubt they still have the license. Farsight bought the rights from Williams Electronic Games to use the tables, so it's likely that High Speed will be released eventually. Also, keep in mind that Farsight chose to put Jive Time in the Williams collection, when there are tons of better EMs from Williams.

I think it's something like $1 a table, which I'm assuming because that's how much the original app was (which includes one table). I can't find pricing info anywhere though. Pretty lame on their part to not be upfront about it.

The info is in the app on one of the cards that pops up when you first start it, if I remember correctly. It's $9.99 for all four tables, or .99 cents for Arabian Nights, 1.99 for Black Hole, 2.99 for Theater of Magic, and 3.99 for Ripley's Believe it or Not. They were definitely up front about it, since I found no way to avoid getting messages to buy the tables when trying them out. I had the "free" version of the app for iOS, though.

[louisg]

Hmm I was thinking more along the lines of this: It was ported to NES, so perhaps some other company wound up with the exclusive rights to make a software/home version of the table. I can't think of why it wouldn't be in any of these, since it was popular at the time. Here's hoping that or The Getaway makes an appearance!

Please don't jump to conclusions. High Speed is not licensed and nobody else has video game rights currently, aside from Farsight. I can't think of a reason why Black Knight 2000, Fireball, Eight Ball Deluxe, or Earthshaker aren't in any collection either (though Eight Ball Deluxe had Mac and DOS ports). Rare ported the game to NES. Since they haven't made any pinball games recently, I highly doubt they still have the license. Farsight bought the rights from Williams Electronic Games to use the tables, so it's likely that High Speed will be released eventually. Also, keep in mind that Farsight chose to put Jive Time in the Williams collection, when there are tons of better EMs from Williams.

Interesting! Do you have a link, or do you know someone (or is this common knowledge and I'm just too lazy to look it up? )?

I think it's something like $1 a table, which I'm assuming because that's how much the original app was (which includes one table). I can't find pricing info anywhere though. Pretty lame on their part to not be upfront about it.

The info is in the app on one of the cards that pops up when you first start it, if I remember correctly. It's $9.99 for all four tables, or .99 cents for Arabian Nights, 1.99 for Black Hole, 2.99 for Theater of Magic, and 3.99 for Ripley's Believe it or Not. They were definitely up front about it, since I found no way to avoid getting messages to buy the tables when trying them out. I had the "free" version of the app for iOS, though.

Ahh yeah, I have the 99 cent one and it includes Arabian Nights. Hmm I wonder if I just missed it. I was looking at press releases and the game's official site and couldn't find any info.

[BrianC]

Interesting! Do you have a link, or do you know someone (or is this common knowledge and I'm just too lazy to look it up? )?

I looked up info on Pinball Arcade's Facebook page and been looking at info on ipdb. No mention of licensing issues and http://www.pinballarcade.com shows that they have licenses for Williams, Bally, Gottlieb, and Stern pinballs, which no one else announced recently. High Speed is not a table based on a license. What proof do you have of licensing issues? Only that it wasn't in PHOF, even though there are a ton of popular tables out there like Earthshaker, Fish Tales, and White Water that didn't appear in PHOF either.

[louisg]

High Speed is not a table based on a license. What proof do you have of licensing issues? Only that it wasn't in PHOF, even though there are a ton of popular tables out there like Earthshaker, Fish Tales, and White Water that didn't appear in PHOF either.

None, I'm just speculating based on the fact that it seems conspicuously absent. I know it's not based on a license, and I stated my reasons for my earlier assumption. To elaborate, look what happened with the licensing for home versions of Frogger-- one company winds up with the rights to cartridge versions, another with the rights to magnetic media versions (IIRC), etc. It's certainly not outside of the realm of possibility.

I'm not sure why you're being so confrontational about this.

I've never heard of Earthshaker, Fish Tales or White Water. I'm not a pinball expert by any stretch, but I do know a good handful of popular tables (such as many of the ones included on the first disc and in the new version's download section).

[DJ Incompetent]

Postman's scores are made of sin and hate.

Scorechase on FX2: DJ Incompetent
If you know me on Facebook, I'm doing Pinball Arcade also if they ever fix their damn leaderboards.

[BrianC]

High Speed is not a table based on a license. What proof do you have of licensing issues? Only that it wasn't in PHOF, even though there are a ton of popular tables out there like Earthshaker, Fish Tales, and White Water that didn't appear in PHOF either.

None, I'm just speculating based on the fact that it seems conspicuously absent. I know it's not based on a license, and I stated my reasons for my earlier assumption. To elaborate, look what happened with the licensing for home versions of Frogger-- one company winds up with the rights to cartridge versions, another with the rights to magnetic media versions (IIRC), etc. It's certainly not outside of the realm of possibility.

I'm not sure why you're being so confrontational about this.

It's possible that they license the tables seperately. So that could be part of the issue. I'm sorry if I came off the wrong way, I just remembered mentioning this before and I'm not sure why the high speed thing came up again. It's a worse case senario and I think it's too soon to count High Speed out.

[louisg]

It's possible that they license the tables seperately. So that could be part of the issue. I'm sorry if I came off the wrong way, I just remembered mentioning this before and I'm not sure why the high speed thing came up again. It's a worse case senario and I think it's too soon to count High Speed out.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for it to come out. I really want a version other than the NES one!

[BrianC]

Why has there never been a digital pinball game that accurately reproduces the sound of activating a flipper? (Besides 3D Pinball Space Cadet, depressingly enough.)

It should be a weighty *THUNK*, not a piddly little slap.

The Pro Pinball games have a nice flipper sound.

[szycag]

Already have you on my list DJ Incompetent! Beat your scores on a few tables but I'm nowhere near your superscore. I have Damocles on my list as well and he has a counterstopped ( ) Paranormal score. He told me he just did the Levitation multiball mode over and over and had the game going for a week. No such luck trying to replicate it, but I just found some videos that explain it a little more. Between the two of you I have plenty of competition already.

[Zeether]

I'm excited for Pinball Arcade. If they can include High Speed, TX-Sector, Addams Family, or Varkon, I will be indebted to FarSight. They've already hinted at Medieval Madness being DLC.

[BrianC]

Already have you on my list DJ Incompetent! Beat your scores on a few tables but I'm nowhere near your superscore. I have Damocles on my list as well and he has a counterstopped ( ) Paranormal score. He told me he just did the Levitation multiball mode over and over and had the game going for a week. No such luck trying to replicate it, but I just found some videos that explain it a little more. Between the two of you I have plenty of competition already.

yeah. I have DJ Incompetent on my list too and he has some really high scores on some tables. Over 100 Million or some tables. I really have some work to do to get my superscore up. Still don't have the classic tables. I have two Marvel packs, Fantastic Four, Earth Defense, Excalibur, and I just got the core pack.

I'm excited for Pinball Arcade. If they can include High Speed, TX-Sector, Addams Family, or Varkon, I will be indebted to FarSight. They've already hinted at Medieval Madness being DLC.

From what I seen on the facebook page, Medieval Madness has been confirmed and seems to be a given for the next batch of DLC. There were also hints that Bride of Pinbot is coming and may be the other table in the next batch of DLC. Monster Bash is a possibility for the second game in the next batch of DLC, telling from posts on the facebook page, too. Farsight is trying hard to get Addams Family, but they posted on facebook saying it's a tough table to secure all of the licenses for.

[Damocles]

I'm far more interested in the Farsight offerings than anything made by Zen. I've said it before, and it makes me sound like a bitch, but the physics in the Williams collection are so, so much better than PFX. If Farsight would make the nudging more unpredictable it would be almost perfect.

That being said, they're both pretty fun systems and well worth your money.

[xris]

There is a big digital pinball thread here, I usually just kind of lurk on it though.. Pinball FX is really fun, it's what taught me how to play pinball. I was amazed when I relized I was supposed to be doing stuff. I love the pinball fx on my phone. The spooky mansion table that came free was awesome! I don't mind that they are honest about making crazy, larger than life tables. I'm looking forward to playing their new table.

[Austin]

I've said it before, but I am eagerly awaiting the Pinball Arcade. The Williams Collection on various platforms has been *the* game I've sunk the most time into this last year. With the supposed improved ball physics (and the obvious new sheen to it), I can't wait to get my hands on the console releases.

To the OP (and anyone else that posted their gamer tags), I will probably be adding you in a few minutes (assuming you're on XBOX Live). I don't do as much Pinball FX (don't care for the physics and sounds as much as Farsight's offerings), but I will be going all-out when the Pinball Arcade hits and I'd love to have people on my friends list to compare scores with. That is, assuming Farsight finally implements a score comparison feature among friends, much like Pinball FX has done (one of my least favorite things of the 360 Williams collection is that you can only look at the scores for the global rankings, unable to narrow it down to specific friends). For anyone that wants to compare scores with me, feel free to add me on XBOX Live: "djZM" is my gamer tag.

Monster Bash is a possibility for the second game in the next batch of DLC, telling from posts on the facebook page, too.

Oh man.. That's great news! I'd buy that one in a heartbeat (not that I won't for the others, but that's aside the point). I've been playing that one a lot at the local bar, but it's a drain-magnet with tough shots, mostly due to a horribly slanted playfield.

But that reminds me of something that's bothered me much more for quite awhile, the stunning lack of tate in pinball games, a 16:9 screen on it's side would be goddamn wonderful for some video pinball.

I agree entirely.

I actually tried out Addiction Pinball on the PC the first time last week. Asides from being impressed that it's simply a damn-good digital pinball game as it is--it has TATE, too! And holy **** is it awesome! Why haven't more pinball games done this?!?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I've never heard of Earthshaker, Fish Tales or White Water. I'm not a pinball expert by any stretch, but I do know a good handful of popular tables (such as many of the ones included on the first disc and in the new version's download section).

All three above listed pinball tables, I've personally played back in the early 1990s. Earthshaker features a vibrating table to simulate an earthquake (aka "earthquake county" in California with the infamous San Andreas faultline). It was shown at the famous Modesto, CA based Game Station Arcade indeed.

As for the Fish Tales & White Water EMs (Electro Mechcanicals), they were both playable at the Funworks arcade in Modesto, CA back in the early 1990s. Even a fully restored White Water EM was selected as a grand prize at a California Extreme show one year. Sure would've been nice to have won it but it was no cigar for me. Did have the opportunity to play it and it was like playing a brand new table unboxed type of deal (with brand new flippers installed). Even the Bigfoot character present on the table worked like a charm.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[BrianC]

I actually tried out Addiction Pinball on the PC the first time last week. Asides from being impressed that it's simply a damn-good digital pinball game as it is--it has TATE, too! And holy **** is it awesome! Why haven't more pinball games done this?!?

I was disappointed when I found out that the screen flipping option for Pro Pinball isn't tate, especially since it still has some of the most realistic physics I have seen an any pinball game. Some slick table designs with Big Race USA and Timeshock make me wish they made real tables based on them.

Future Pinball has a tate option. I'm not sure if Visual Pinball has standard tate, but it has special tate tables made for virtual pinball cabinets. Not sure of any other pinball games with tate, though.

As for the Fish Tales & White Water EMs (Electro Mechcanicals), they were both playable at the Funworks arcade in Modesto, CA back in the early 1990s. Even a fully restored White Water EM was selected as a grand prize at a California Extreme show one year. Sure would've been nice to have won it but it was no cigar for me. Did have the opportunity to play it and it was like playing a brand new table unboxed type of deal (with brand new flippers installed). Even the Bigfoot character present on the table worked like a charm.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

I'm a bit confused. Fish Tales and White Water are Solid State, not EMs. Electro Machanicals only have chimes for sound and no CPU inside like Solid State machines. I don't think those tables are possible as EMs. They both have DMDs (dot matrix display), as well.

Here are some pinball videos:
Video of White Water
Video of Fish Tales
Video of Black Knight 2000
Video of Earthshaker
Video of Safe Cracker

Videos of EMs:
Royal Flush
Big Indian
Fireball
Slick Chick
Queen of Hearts

[Austin]

I'm not sure if Visual Pinball has standard tate, but it has special tate tables made for virtual pinball cabinets. Not sure of any other pinball games with tate, though.

Yep, I use the "cabinet" tables in order to do TATE in Visual Pinball. I have to deal with the DMD being flipped and on its side, but all in all it gets the job done.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Zen has plans to release a pinball compliation for the PC platform according to the latest issue of Game Informer.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[szycag]

Yep. Actually, the consumer preview demo build of Windows 8 comes with Zen's Sorcerer's Lair table free. So if you wanted to see that running now, and also test out a new operating system to boot, you could do so right here:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/download

(hmm I should add this to the original post)

[BrianC]

Videos of announced tables for Pinball Arcade (real tables):

Monster Bash
Cirqus Voltaire
Creature From the Black Lagoon
Attack from Mars
The Machine: Bride of Pinbot

BoP was only hinted at, but I couldn't resist linking to a video.

[Gozer]

Has Farsight stated anywhere how they plan on releasing the pc version?

Edit:

Found this statement on neo-gaf

"The Pinball Arcade: We haven't made a final decision about the PC distribution channel. The folks at Valve seem a little skeptical that Steam users want to play pinball. We might post an email address a little later for anyone who disagrees "