Please Explain The Brilliance Of Futari

[mjclark]

Not being ironic or provocative, just asking.
A lot of people whose opinions I have a lot of respect for hold Mushihimesama Futari in very high esteem but so far I'm just not feeling it. The whole mechanic of "switch shot types depending on counter/chain gauge value" mechanic seems really arbritary and, dare I say it, clumsy.
Is this simply like when the pope asked Louis Armstrong to explain rhythm and was told "if you have to ask you'll never know" and this mechanic floats some people's boats and not others (like medalling) or is there more to it?
The whole thing just seems a bit Mickey Mouse to me yet many good players rate Futari in their top five so what am I missing?

[Gus]

You're doing it wrong, man. Download Black Label and play God, one of the greatest games every made.

[AntiFritz]

I personally love simple, easy to pick up shmups where i can just shoot and dodge shit. That's why I like futari.

[iconoclast]

Futari's excellence is in its Maniac/God scoring system, where you build up a multiplier and cash it in. It gives the player a ton of freedom for creative strategy, and it's high risk, high reward, which makes it incredibly satisfying once everything goes as planned. Original is still good for some simple fun, but Maniac/God is what pushes Futari to the next level.

[mjclark]

Futari's excellence is in its Maniac/God scoring system, where you build up a multiplier and cash it in.

Thanks- now we're getting somewhere Could you explain this mechanic a bit more please- I've read the ST but it doesn't make it clear...

[Nasirosuchus]

Futari BL was the most fun 1cc I've ever done.

For me, it was all about the arthropods.

[iconoclast]

Futari's excellence is in its Maniac/God scoring system, where you build up a multiplier and cash it in.

Thanks- now we're getting somewhere Could you explain this mechanic a bit more please- I've read the ST but it doesn't make it clear...

I think the guide does a better job at explaining it than I ever could, but basically, you use your shot to kill enemies in rapid succession, which increases your chaining meter. Once the meter is in the red, enemies you kill will give you higher value gems, which increases your multiplier up to x9999 (or x30,000 for God mode). Once you're ready to cash in your multiplier, kill an enemy with your laser while your chaining meter is empty, and he'll drop a bunch of blue gems. The best time to do this is in areas that have an enemy that cancels bullets, because once you cash in on him, all bullets on screen get converted into score items.

That's the gist of it anyway. It'll probably make more sense once you play it.

[Bananamatic]

so what am I missing?

scanlines

[professor ganson]

Without even a thought about Futari's score system, the game is instantly a favorite for its fantastic graphics and how fun it is just to play for survival.

[Skykid]

Not being ironic or provocative, just asking.

It is a great game, although I always felt it lacked a certain charm compared to the original Mushi and its stage pacing and difficulty curve seem a touch off-kilter (one of the best final stages ever tho.)
Maniac's scoring is less arbitrary (getting ahead in Original means squeezing the game like a DP cockring) and fun, but it's quite fiddly to get to grips with and I never got to the point where I enjoyed it too much.

Personally, I think it's up there with Cave's best stuff, but I'm sick of hearing about it, talking about it, and having people gush all over BL original because they can clear it. So thanks for opening yet another Futari thread.

[mjclark]

So thanks for opening yet another Futari thread.

Well you know I'm not a CAVE fanboy Skykid but I do sometimes wonder what I'm missing.
I was sure I'd get a lot of responses quickly cos of the CAVE theme- it'd be a lot slower if the question had been about Gekirindan eh?- but I want to get my head round it to make sure I' not misjudging the game.
As my literature tells me, the surest bar to knowledge is "contempt prior to investigation".
And remember: "They know not Raiden who only Raiden know"

[DrTrouserPlank]

This thread is just crying out for my wisdom on the matter.

[Eaglet]

The reason anyone should ever play regular ol' Futari is if they want to experience the kick to the balls that is Ultra.
If what you want is a fun game with a good scoring system; go with BL God.

[Skykid]

I want to get my head round it to make sure I' not misjudging the game.

Futari falls into a few categories of appraisal:

1: The Minority ~ The top scorer category ~ Guys I've seen exploit 1.5 for everything it's worth, and proof alone of the game's depths. They have every right to put the game on a pedestal because they destroy it.

2: The Majority ~ The introduction to shmups category ~ Guys who got into Shmups because of Futari and therefore have an emotional bond with it that makes it, in their eyes, the best thing that ever happened to them since that wet dream about Rinoa Heartilly. They tend to favour BL Original variant since it's easier for survival, and anyway, it doesn't matter if they can't score in it or clear it, it's just the best "because, ok?"

3: The Silent Masses ~ The you and me category ~ Folks who think it's good, but aren't really sure if it's quite the life-changing experience everyone seems to make it out to be. There are lots of good Cave titles, and probably quite a few that offer a cleaner and more enjoyable experience than Futari, but this category shuts the fuck up b/c every time someone says something like "But is it really a better game than Guwange?" there's a nerd riot.

[professor ganson]

I always felt it lacked a certain charm compared to the original Mushi and its stage pacing and difficulty curve seem a touch off-kilter

Skykid, I'm curious about these points. Where does Futari's pacing/difficulty curve seem off? I like the difficulty level so far, though I haven't gotten very far in the game. So maybe you're talking about something later in the game. (I usually perish in the third stage.)

Also, curious about charm. I never liked how Mushi was neither dark nor cute. Just kinda emotionally flat in my opinion, even if there some really nice detail. Futari, on the other hand, is just so vibrant (like Dragon Blaze) and cute (absolutely love the jellyfish!!!).

Love to hear your thought.

[Eaglet]

I always felt it lacked a certain charm compared to the original Mushi and its stage pacing and difficulty curve seem a touch off-kilter

First stage is harder than the second in God and Ultra.
Third stage (midboss lolololol) is harder than anything in the fourth stage.

[professor ganson]

I always felt it lacked a certain charm compared to the original Mushi and its stage pacing and difficulty curve seem a touch off-kilter

First stage is harder than the second in God and Ultra.
Third stage (midboss lolololol) is harder than anything in the fourth stage.

Helpful, thanks!

[Skykid]

I always felt it lacked a certain charm compared to the original Mushi and its stage pacing and difficulty curve seem a touch off-kilter

Skykid, I'm curious about these points. Where does Futari's pacing/difficulty curve seem off? I like the difficulty level so far, though I haven't gotten very far in the game. So maybe you're talking about something later in the game. (I usually perish in the third stage.)

Yeah there are quite a few odd humps n' bumps in Futari, between stages and midbosses. Eaglet named the main ones (Stage 3 is a pisser no matter what) and as for pacing issues stage 1 & 2 become very tiresome on repeated play - 2 being a little on the long side. 3 - 5 are fine tho.

Also, curious about charm. I never liked how Mushi was neither dark nor cute. Just kinda emotionally flat in my opinion, even if there some really nice detail. Futari, on the other hand, is just so vibrant (like Dragon Blaze) and cute (absolutely love the jellyfish!!!).

It's primarily the graphical consistency and the unique features of each stage. Stage 2's bullet cancelling pods, Stage 3's incredible walking caterpiller and Stage 4's pure sex underground bullet herding really resonate with me in terms of a journey. I find some of Futari's renders to be quite loud, garish and fugly tbh - although that's not a reflection on its quality as a game.
I prefer the original's soundtrack too (Futari's stg5 the exception) with original Mushi's stage 4 music is worth the price of entry alone; one of Namiki's best.

[mjclark]

Once again forgive my ignorance but am I also right in thinking that original Mushihimesama has much much more basic mechanics of simple chaining and quickshot?

And as for Futari Maniac/God modes- chaining with C shot gives green/gold gems and increases multiplier value then switching to A shot gives double gems at max chain and blue gems whose value is determined by previously generated multiplier at zero chain. However multiplier decreases for every blue gem absorbed so staying in A shot will degrade multiplier to zero eventually, hence the need to revert to C shot to generate new chain and bump multiplier back up, yes?

Oh yeah and maybe I actually need to play it to see this in action- it sounds a bit like the mechanic in ring^27 lol

[Erppo]

Many people like Cave's style and Futari is probably the best designed game they have done. Nothing more complicated than that.

Also I honestly can't see why would people prefer the first Mushi. The extremely weird system of different tapping techniques for chain holding and putting autofire in the autofire button for some crazy counter increases is one of the most convoluted things Cave has done and as an alternative to that you get Original which is as close to a game without a scoring system as you're going to get.

and having people gush all over BL original because they can clear it.

Better than the usual thing of people gushing all over a game because they can't clear it.

[cools]

Also I honestly can't see why would people prefer the first Mushi.

Ditto.

[mjclark]

Also in the most recent Top 25, Futari 1.5 weighs in at no.7 whereas BL only makes no.20.
Everyone in this thread says BL's better though.
Please explain...

[Skykid]

Many people like Cave's style and Futari is probably the best designed game they have done.

In your opinion.

Mushi Maniac's tapping is bizarre and finger damaging, but the patterns are incredibly satisfying throughout.

Also I honestly can't see why would people prefer the first Mushi.

No-one mentioned which they preferred as an overall game, I said I felt original Mushi has more charm/consistency in it's graphics/audio.

Also in the most recent Top 25, Futari 1.5 weighs in at no.7 whereas BL only makes no.20.
Everyone in this thread says BL's better though.
Please explain...

See category no.2

[professor ganson]

Skykid, interesting and thoughtful. I know just what you mean about stage 2 being too long-- as much as I absolutely love the look of that stage. And I'm glad to hear that it's not just my problem that I'm having trouble with stage 3! Interesting about the soundtrack. I tend to play shmups without the sound so as not to disturb the family, so I'm not in a position to disagree. I'm especially intrigued by your point about the game's journey. This is an aspect of shmups that needs more discussion!

[dunpeal2064]

I like Futari because the scoring in maniac/god mode is intuitive. I don't have to watch a superplay to feel like I'm doin it right, yet its still a great challenge.

Oh, and I like BL for god mode. Difficulty that I can handle (unlike Ultra), and big ol shiny shit errywhere.

[mjclark]

A vain Emperor who cares for nothing but his appearance and attire hires two tailors who are really swindlers that promise him the finest, best suit of clothes from a fabric invisible to anyone who is unfit for his position or "just hopelessly stupid". The Emperor cannot see the cloth himself, but pretends that he can for fear of appearing unfit for his position; his ministers do the same. When the swindlers report that the suit is finished, they mime dressing him and the Emperor then marches in procession before his subjects, who play along with the pretense. Suddenly, a child in the crowd, too young to understand the desirability of keeping up the pretense, blurts out that the Emperor is wearing nothing at all and the cry is taken up by others. The Emperor cringes, suspecting the assertion is true, but holds himself up proudly and continues the procession, deciding never to be so vain again and to take his position more seriously.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

I just didn't see any brilliance. I played Futari 1.5 twice in the arcade--both times Original mode. Fast game? Yes. But it played just like a fast Toaplan style game except EASIER--no way I should have reached stage 4 on my first or second play.

The scoring system? Well if it isn't obvious, then it's a discardable scoring. I was nevertheless able to play the game up to about the middle of stage 4 without even having to focus on the scoring system.

Maybe the scoring system makes the game harder, but I play for longevity first and score second with any shmup I play.

[chempop]

I agree with Skykid, the the first Mushi might not be the better game, but the art direction has something special I think is lacking in Futari. Futari is a bit too candy coated to take seriously, from T-Rex, to jellyfish, centipedes, and dragons... If all of a sudden you were fighting lammas, kangaroos, and giant parakeets it wouldn't really stand out as strange, whereas the original Mushi was Bugs, Bugs, and more Bugs. I like that consistency. More of Futari should have been artistically in line with Stage-3, I know people complain about the forest alot, but it's a beautiful stage, by far the best in the game I you ask me.

Then there is that snowman and cheerful snowball fight, so cute.... So cute and lame. I want to fight stage-long insects and fear the next scarab Beatle, not think about god damn snowmen.

[dunpeal2064]

There's a snowman in futari?

[Casper<3]

Stage 4 is the biggest selling point for me. It's just like the cloudy sky stage in Garegga.

...Oh and Reco has tigole bitties!!!

I think Futari just has an overall welcoming and fun presence. People complained about Galuda 2 being too overcomplicated ...but for me, I was drawn into the world and really enjoy the game. Aesthetics do mean a lot.