What was the first shump you ever played?

[Marc]

I would say "gravity" is what separates shmups from run n guns - and Robotron from Contra.

Also, I would say that scrolling backgrounds are only a relevent gameplay element where scenery is involved - for the player to crash into and stuff. Clearly, not all shmups have this kind of scenery.
Going by the logic that a shmup is defined by a scrolling background, I could actually stop DDP from being a shmup by loading it up in Raine and turning the background layer off.

Why is gravity a factor? You're not flying in Robotron or Berzerk. And lets not forget that the very first shmup, Space War, used gravity. There was a star in the center that's constantly pulling you in. And then there's Gravitar. And a really cool Genesis shmup called "Sub Terrania" that used some serious gravity.

All of those are still shmups despite their use of gravity. Why should it be a deciding factor with Contra?

Cause those games still allow full freedom of movement within their environment. Robotron and Bezerk allow you to play, move through and reach every single inch of the screen, as do Space War and Sub Terrania. Contra doesn't. If there isn't a platform there, you can't reach it.

Only logical follow on from Robotron is, as BF already pointed out, Smash TV. Which isn't half the game Robotron is unfortunately.

[Knoskoloz]

I think for me it was R-Type on Game Boy.

Same for me (I hated Stage 4 btw).

[shariar07]

my first was Life Force

[Alpolio]

Cause those games still allow full freedom of movement within their environment. Robotron and Bezerk allow you to play, move through and reach every single inch of the screen, as do Space War and Sub Terrania. Contra doesn't. If there isn't a platform there, you can't reach it.

Only logical follow on from Robotron is, as BF already pointed out, Smash TV. Which isn't half the game Robotron is unfortunately.

Ok. It's not a shmup because you can't reach the entire screen. What about Space Invaders, Galaxian, Galaga, Gorf, ect, ect, ect? All you do is move back & forth in these games and they're still considered shmups. What if you were to take the player from Contra and drop him on the ground in Space Invaders and add a few platforms for him to jump on? Would that automatically cancel out its shmupness and make it a platformer? You know, Nintendo did make something like that once. Donkey Kong 3.



Like I said earlier, the accepted definition of a shmup does not allow for games like Space Invaders, Galaxian, Galaga, Gorf, Centipede.... or Donkey Kong 3. If you allow some of these classics in, you've got to allow them all. And if you do that, a game like Contra & Metal Slug would meet all of the requirements for a shmup by default.

[SPACE HARRIER]

ARCADE : SPACE INVADERS (year 1978)
FIRST CONSOLE : FREEDOM FIGHTERS VIDEOPAC GAME No.39 (year 1981)

TNT,

[Fighter17]

Super R-Type for the SNES, I was six when I first played it.

[Dale]

Galaga on NES Ironically I played Galaga before I tried SMB,s kinda funny cause I got them bolth at the same time.

[agony]

I think it was Super R-Type for the SNES

and if I remember right, I also 1CC it

[Edge]

That game was Raid On Bungeling Bay.

Thanks.

I have googled it, but I'm not really sure if it is the one. I was maybe 5 or 6 years old when I played this at a friend of my father. So, I don't remember it exactly.

Edit:
Yeah, this must be the one.. Wow, there was also a NES port...

[elvis]

"Vortex Blaster" on John Sands / Sega SC3000 computer (and later SG1000 console) back in 1983. We only had a copy on cassette tape, but my filthy rich cousins had a copy on ultra-expensive new fangled "cartridges". Damn those things were cool and innovative.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/sc3000.htm

Holy shit, I'm flashbacking like crazy!

[Pingu]

- Tiger Heli
- Life Force

Both on NES.

Don't remember exactly which one came first. They certainly both did a good job of getting me hooked though. ^^

Ha, same here actually. Well, tiger heli I think I've played on some other console, probably a pirated one.

[system11]

Like I said earlier, the accepted definition of a shmup does not allow for games like Space Invaders, Galaxian, Galaga, Gorf, Centipede.... or Donkey Kong 3. If you allow some of these classics in, you've got to allow them all. And if you do that, a game like Contra & Metal Slug would meet all of the requirements for a shmup by default.

The 'accepted definition' doesn't exist. Nobody has ever agreed on one. You can only apply logic and reasoned judgement. Contra doesn't feel like a shootemup, Tempest does. I think the core issue for me, is does the game feel like the whole purpose is to shoot things and rack up points until they're all dead. In Contra, it feels like I'm supposed to run and jump and scale the mountain wall covered with platforms. The score counter may aswell not exist. It's got more in common with Bionic Commando or Black Tiger than Robotron, and nobody in their right mind would try to classify those as shmups.

As for the whole 'protoshmups' issue - it's so often the same - the people who actually played those games way back, are the ones who know what they are. Early shmups. Vary your expectations depending on how late you joined the dance.

[Alpolio]

That's probably the best description of a run-n-gun that I've read. You ought to go into Wikipedia's run-n-gun topic (link) and replace their crappy version with your version. The way they've got it wrote out, Guwange would be an overhead-view run-n-gun.

[doctorx0079]

First shmup: Arcade Centipede at Chris Thompson's birthday party, at Razzmatazz, circa 1984. Also the first video game I ever played. I had wanted to try video games for some time before that. I picked that one because nothing shoots at you, so I figured I could handle it, and it didn't have people waiting in line to play like all the Pac-Mans did.

First modern-style shmup was probably Sky Shark at Little Caesar's in about 1987. That was back when you could go in a Little Caesar's and sit down and eat. My parents would give me two quarters while we were waiting. They had good pizza in those days too. They always had good games like Elevator Action, Rastan, Enduroracer, Outrun . .

[Cranky]

I'm not completely sure, but I think my first shmup was transbot on the old John Sands Sega computer thingy. That would have been in the mid eighties some time. The first shmup I really got into was R-type on the SMS. That would have been in 88'. Good times.

[Captain]

Arrow flash for Genesis/Megadrive

[Mordecai Walfish]

Another definite arcade Space Invaders.

[Formless God]

I like how both thread titles had the same typo

Gradius and 1942 on the NES, not sure which came first.
Actually, I might have played a MS-DOS STG (whose name escaped me right now) way before those two. One of the boss fights had purple/blue manly as fuck lasers against a yellow background, but sadly it wasn't DFK.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ha, old as HELL reply to respond to, but if I may:

I think the core issue for me, is does the game feel like the whole purpose is to shoot things and rack up points until they're all dead. In Contra, it feels like I'm supposed to run and jump and scale the mountain wall covered with platforms. The score counter may aswell not exist.

Well, you're not understanding the arcade Super Contra then, or that Toaplan shooters are based on survival, after all is said and done.

Surely "shoot things until they are dead" is not the criteria:

"Shoot first and forget the questions!" (Super C box back)
"Fire! Fire! Fire! And don't stop firing are the only instructions you need. Because in this Doomsday extravaganza, there's little time for thinking. A killer instinct is all that matters. And if your trigger finger lacks stamina, Earth will lack a future." (Super C manual)

It would be much simpler to have stopped by simply saying that the difference between Contra and a "shmup" is based on there being extraneous elements to the scoring and shooting. So in Contra, the jumping around like mad while looking like a shrimp or a ball (depending on your format) and the conditional goals of scaling the mountain by jumping don't seem by themselves to be directly scoring elements. This is still problematic, but better than saying that Contra's formula (leave alone any specific implementations of it, which vary wildly in their competence) doesn't allow good scoring. Of course you could have a Contra that is all about great scoring, bullet grazing, whatever you like! It would be "shmup +1."

The difference is really just that the design puts more focus on jumping, timing, and other things thought to be the province of platformers, rather than just on precision of movement and dodging things coming from 360 degrees (you will notice how I did not use your criteria at all, and it still comes out right).

I guess I'm not prepared to let anybody try to slap around Contra's good name. As a practical matter, I agree that the idea of scoring has had great influence over the genre, but I don't think anything in that particularly stops me from starting a new thread (and having it be totally appropriate) in High Scores for a shooter that is based almost wholly on survival and for which "the score counter may aswell not exist," like

Major Stryker

a game that does not need scoring to be awesome.

[hwl]

Sidewinder (Amiga) iirc - followed by R-Type and Xenon 2.

[davyK]

Either Space Invaders or Sea Wolf in the arcade....I can remember playing Sheriff too...that's probably a predecessor of Robotron strickly speaking.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheriff_(video_game)

[Annoyboy]

My first shmup was probably either Grandstand FireFox or the Spectrum version of Silkworm, I really can't remember.

[Kollision]

probably Raiver Raid

[fireleo4]

phew .. empire strikes back and vanguard on vcs, iirc.

vanguard was an absolute blast at that time. ironically, i liked the vcs port of the game much more than the arcade original.

regards,
rynex

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Space invaders which was built into an old 2nd hand atari console my parents bought for me, It got played quite often since it was the only game I had (apart from a Tomy Donkey Kong) until I got a Spectrum +2 for xmas

[Ed Oscuro]

vanguard was an absolute blast at that time. ironically, i liked the vcs port of the game much more than the arcade original.

I have this game, I should plug it in some time!

[Marc]

If it has a jump button, it isn't a shmup. Simple.

[Daigohji]

My first visit to an arcade in Llandudno in 1983 or 1984 is one of my earliest memories. I remember playing two games: Pole Position (or a clone of it) and a shmup that I never knew the name of. What stuck in my mind about the latter was that the graphics seemed so much more realistic than anything else in the arcade. I was four at the time, so I couldn't tell what made it different. I've always assumed that it was some kind of backlit game that used layers of transparencies, but now I'm wondering if it was Astron Belt: http://youtu.be/roCbZXqBDaE

The memory that sticks with me was that the ship was flying through a cave, and the part of the linked video that starts at 1:54 seems very familiar. My other memory of this game was that it was in a cockpit-type cabinet with the speakers cranked up so loud that it felt like I was being stabbed in my tender little four-year-old ears. Consequently, I didn't enjoy the experience as much as I'd hoped

[cpcbautista]

My first experience was with Gyruss followed by Galaga, both on the NES. I never heard of either when I got them, but I was hooked as soon as I played them.

[ryosnk]

Twin Cobra arcade version.