Under Defeat HD

[lawnspic]

After playing this release i don't regret selling my DC. As some asked earlier i believe this to be the definitive version just for new order alone and the twin stick mode. Now i don't know what the deal is with the widescreen bars in arcade mode but maybe that can be remedied with the over scan option or video output settings on your console(you might also get bars if you are using an HD crt in 720p). I have the Ps3 version so i cant comment on the x360 release.

[TSJ]

EDIT: It seems that I have been god-defeatingly dense about this. A quick change of the console settings from normal to widescreen seems to have sorted arcade mode. Hooray!

Good advice lawnspic, thank you.

Big apologies for any undue alarm caused.

[TSJ]

Anyone else playing this on a 4:3 TV? The whole game displays as 16:9 on mine, which is fine for New Order but not arcade mode... I'm given the option of 4:3 or 5:4 for Arcade, but the widescreen borders remain. It's unplayable for me as it stands. Not happy with this at all.

Please pardon my french, but you have got to be fucking joking me.

Yep, big joke, everyone laugh. See above!

[jongoo]

Actually, I wouldn't be so quick to call this the definitive version. I got it for PS3 and after spending a bit of time with it, there is definitely more slowdown in it than the DC port. I guess with New Order mode it's somewhat understandable but I played Arcade mode for the sake of comparison. I felt something was off when I first played it and so I went back to my DC and there's no mistaking it, there's noticeably more slowdown. Not only that, I noticed there was a slight hiccup in performance when you sink the 2nd boss and cause rain. Even the sound skips for a small fraction of a second. Maybe that was a fluke (like my setup having a brief issue or something) but the slowdown I'm positive of, unfortunately.

Is there an install feature that I missed? I looked but didn't find any.

In any case, I'm still having a lot of fun with this. Still a great game.

I'm curious how the 360 version stacks up.

[ExitPlanetDust]

LOL, well good to know it's not "broken" then. Whew! Thanks for letting us know.

[lawnspic]

Yes i noticed the slowdown too. I get the feeling this was intentional as this game running on a Ps3 should have no performance issues at least i don't think so. Can anyone post there observations on the x360 version.

jongoo, my copy skips during the end of the second boss battle as well

[ExitPlanetDust]

Yes i noticed the slowdown too. I get the feeling this was intentional as this game running on a Ps3 should have no performance issues at least i don't think so. Can anyone post there observations on the x360 version.

In watching some of the gameplay videos, it appears that the slowdown is intentional. Compensation for HDTV input lag + more enemies on screen at one time from 16:9?

[jongoo]

Thanks for the confirm lawnspic.

Just wanna say, the slowdown thing, intentional or not, does not make the game any less fun. I mean, it would be nice if it wasn't there or better yet, you could toggle it, but when you're playing, you're probably gonna be having too much fun to care. Plus, for someone who's not very skilled like me, it helps.

It was a good looking game back then, and it looks better than ever now.

[TSJ]

I noticed there was a slight hiccup in performance when you sink the 2nd boss and cause rain. Even the sound skips for a small fraction of a second. Maybe that was a fluke (like my setup having a brief issue or something) but the slowdown I'm positive of, unfortunately.

Not noticed this in the 360 version. The Xbox version does have a slightly annoying split-second freeze just before you die. You can see it in the prerelease promo vids too. I've not played the DC release.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I noticed there was a slight hiccup in performance when you sink the 2nd boss and cause rain. Even the sound skips for a small fraction of a second. Maybe that was a fluke (like my setup having a brief issue or something) but the slowdown I'm positive of, unfortunately.

Not noticed this in the 360 version. The Xbox version does have a slightly annoying split-second freeze just before you die. You can see it in the prerelease promo vids too. I've not played the DC release.

That split second pause is intentional and is also in the DC version.

I quite like it, gives you a second to see the shot that killed you. I find it especially annoying to die from a bullet I haven't even seen.

[ExitPlanetDust]

Yep, the only place the split second "dramatic death pause" doesn't show up is in 2 player mode. I think.

[lawnspic]

Hmm, im wondering if i force my ps3 to output only 720p and let my tv scale if the slowdown is still there. Gonna have to wait till im home

[Shelcoof]

After reading the positive feedback on the forum now I'm getting even more excited
My order is going to arrive mid week next week I think.

[lawnspic]

Ok, tried out the various resolutions through the ps3 settings (480p,720p,1080i/p) and the performance is the same across all formats. So its definitely not a scaling issue. If the 360 plays the same(if someone can confirm) then its not a hardware issue. I ques then maybe this is Grev's vision for this version of UD. Timing aside, the slowdown has helped for some tough moments with new order because it's a notch more difficult than arcade.

[Kiken]

I received my copy of the 360 port today. All I can say is this is one messy fucking port:

The slowdown isn't consistent between yoko and tate. For example, during the stage 5 boss battle, the game operates at full speed in yoko but slows to about 50 percent speed for much of the battle in tate (makes dodging the exploding fireball attack much easier but I find it harder to dodge the dual vulcan cannons because the whole thing is too slow and it throws off my timing royally). Neither display option correctly reproduces the exact slowdown of the NAOMI/DC version.

Enemies can fire at the player off-screen (this is HUGE as it leads to numerous instances of attacks that seemingly come from nowhere)... hell, many begin firing way too early (this can be immensely problematic when those enemies are the homing rocket launchers).

Audio balancing is horrific! The shot noise is way too damn loud and the sounds associated with your option pod readying to fire are too quiet (I'm constantly straining to hear the whistle that lets me know that the option pod is ready to be deployed). Also, when you stop firing, as your last shot leaves the screen, the game plays the sound effect for your rocket pod firing... Why? Not only is it annoying, it's also terribly distracting, especially since it's the same audio cue as the homing rockets that certain enemy tanks can fire at you.

The lock-on reticle behaves oddly. As a result, some targets become harder to lock-on to properly with either an option pod or the helicopter's main fire. For example, during the stage 4 boss battle, the cannons that the boss deploys take longer to kill because the copter's shot begins wildly spraying instead of simply firing straight down into the targets.

Some targets become active too early or remain active for longer than they should. Particularly in stage 2, things like the bridge of the first battle ship out at sea (can be shot at way sooner than it should be) as well as the boss (the bridge remains an active target during the entire fight but it's supposed to become inactive for a period between when the fourth chopper on the left appears until the bridge fully scrolls back onto screen for the final battle) don't behave correctly.

The helicopter's auto-fire rate is different (there is no longer a gap between salvos). I find this does some weird things with the hit-flash making it a bit harder to tell when a target is sufficiently sparking to take splash-damage from a rocket.

The large enemy tank fire audio at the beginning of stage 5 doesn't fade up with the rest of the sound effects.. it simply comes it at full strength.

With all that said, scoring is close enough to be comparable with the NAOMI/DC version.

[lawnspic]

I agree on the option sound effects, they are more prominent in the DC version. I could not balance it myself with audio options, it seems way to soft.

[Jeneki]

Is New Order basically the same arrangement, or did they mix up the enemy placement or something to make it different?

Bumping this question. Is New Order the same game with dual stick control, or a new arrangement?

[Kiken]

Is New Order basically the same arrangement, or did they mix up the enemy placement or something to make it different?

Bumping this question. Is New Order the same game with dual stick control, or a new arrangement?

It is an Arrange Mode. Enemy placement is significantly different and the option pods have different deployment/recharge times. The helicopter can rotate further (nearly a full 180 degrees) and moves much faster along both the X and Y axis.

And for those wondering, despite the fact that the DVD included with the LE is labeled as NTSC Region-2, it is infact, NTSC Region-0 (the disc is exactly the same as the one included with the Soldier Of Fortune Under Defeat super-play release).

By the way, I've been playing this on my tate 4:3 CRT and was not able to get full-screen display in Arcade Mode. When I change my display settings in the 360 system menu to Anamorphic Widescreen, it 'fixes' the in game menus, but the game is displayed in a crunched format (there are black bars at the top and bottom of the image, so the play-area is basically square). When I adjust the in-game overscan option, the left and right sides of the playfield are expanded beyond the field of view. I do not see an independent X and Y axis scaler option.

[chempop]

Wow, I appreciate the info Kiken but I'm disappointed to hear about those issues. Crap, now I am not sure if I should get the 360 port, or buy back the DC version (just sold mine...)

[ZenErik]

Heh. I'm glad I didn't buy Under Defeat HD now. I will reconsider if issues are patched, but I don't expect much in that regard from G.rev.

I almost feel obligated to support them because there are so few shmup developers left but putting out botched ports isn't really helping my opinion of their work...

[rancor]

Wow, I appreciate the info Kiken but I'm disappointed to hear about those issues. Crap, now I am not sure if I should get the 360 port, or buy back the DC version (just sold mine...)

Yeah - After two days with the x360 version now, I'm thinking that the DC port is still the one to have. There are a lot of issues that need to be fixed.

[djsiegfried]

Heh. I'm glad I didn't buy Under Defeat HD now. I will reconsider if issues are patched, but I don't expect much in that regard from G.rev.

I almost feel obligated to support them because there are so few shmup developers left but putting out botched ports isn't really helping my opinion of their work...

Will see. My package is on it's way...

[Phellan Wolf]

So in the end Arcade mode is not a good port from the Dc&Naomi ver isn't it?? I would like to know how comparable are both ports. IMO it will be really interesting to see wich one is the best port

[stryc9]

So TSJ said he sussed out how to get rid of the black borders in arcade mode by messing with the console settings, and now Kiken says you can't..

What is going on here? does one of the ports fit 4:3 monitors and the other one doesn't, or do neither?

If the version I have ordered (360) doesn't fit the 4:3 it will be a first for me, and I have all the shmups on the console, never had issues with Guwange for example. But then that's what CAVE fixed with the patch wasn't it?

It is such a simple thing to just get this basic shit sorted out for the release of a vertical shmup

PS @ Kiken: does New Order feel like it was built with an arcade stick in mind or is it just feeling tacked on, on account of the twinstick mode?

[Kiken]

So in the end Arcade mode is not a good port from the Dc&Naomi ver isn't it?? I would like to know how comparable are both ports. IMO it will be really interesting to see which one is the best port

In terms of replicating the NAOMI original, the DC version is still the definitive home release of this game. If folks are interested in seeing an anal KingGorro53 style breakdown of everything that was changed, I can capture footage from both releases and post an analysis.

If the version I have ordered (360) doesn't fit the 4:3 it will be a first for me, and I have all the shmups on the console, never had issues with Guwange for example. But then that's what CAVE fixed with the patch wasn't it?

Guwange, before it got patched, displayed exactly the same as UD HD in tate does now. If there is some other option I'm missing to correct the display, I'd love to hear what that is.

PS @ Kiken: does New Order feel like it was built with an arcade stick in mind or is it just feeling tacked on, on account of the twinstick mode?

I played the mode once last night just to give it a whirl. I was using my joystick and the ridiculous speed of the copter rotation was making the mode a chore to play (dropping option pods at correct angles as well as locking the shot in a preferred direction was really awkward).

[stryc9]

Thats what I was afraid of. Lets hope G-Rev patch this thing up at least.

So it looks like currently the best (only)? way to play the game effectively is on a 16:9 display (where my PS3 is set up - I would have got that version had I known) on a stupid control pad. Great stuff.

[lawnspic]

There are some legitimate complaints here, but i think new order is a blast to play with the twin stick. The added degree of rotation and ability to target enemies while moving is a bonus. I wont talk about accuracy of the arcade version because obviously its not the same, but then again i did not buy this for a direct port. Still enjoyable to say the least and if a patch is released then even better.

[Zaarock]

G.Rev did add 4:3 display support and fixed some bugs in a patch for Strania.. they better do the same here since this is a disc release. The amount of glitches and differences sounds pretty bad though :/

[TSJ]

Just to clarify, changing the console settings to widescreen gave me a normal sized arcade screen untated. Just tried in tate and yeah, you can't get it fullscreen, though it is quite close. You're going to have gaps at the top and bottom of the screen.

Really loving this game now. Unlocked the New Order second loop yesterday; it's reversed and recoloured! Funny how a left to right reverse can make the stages seem quite fresh.

[evil_ash_xero]

Got mine today. The graphics are really nice.

As mentioned earlier, the audio is weird. No matter how I adjust the music or sound affects, they never sound like the do(in terms of balance) on the DC.

It's true, missiles tend to "come out of nowhere".

Overall, it's nice...but they need to patch a few things. Being a disc based release, I would hold them to it. I mean, that was expensive for a game, that most people would expect to just be on XBLA.