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[Zeron]

These threads are always terrible just do whatever the hell you see fit really...

[AntiFritz]

Look, Elixir can post all the (wrong, biased, shit) lists in the world, and Cagar can come up with all the excuses to buy a J360 for unreasons ("I can play games I don't really want to play on it!"), the only arguments that hold up (edit: if you're really in it for shmups exclusively, as you said yourself more than once) are really wanting a game that's not available in any other way otherwise (until you pulled a ketsuipachi out of your ass you never once hinted at this being the case, so I'm assuming you invented that just to spite me), replays (arguable), and protecting yourself against future releases not making it to other regions (again arguable - don't bet the farm on the 360 being flooded with much more stuff).

Slowpoke MAME isn't really an argument against getting a J360, by the way - you need an extremely beefy computer to run it (PS runs like a slideshow in mine, Ibara is reasonably less bad but still chokes here and there) and even if you can run it "properly" who knows how (in)accurate that thing really is. Most of the SH3 stuff is available legally outside of JP region anyway, so that's a moot point.

How cute, keep ignoring civilized arguments and behaving like that and you'll go far.

A core i3 is beefy now?

[ebarrett]

A core i3 is beefy now?

I'm on a second gen i5 and Pink Sweets runs it into the ground every time you enter a stage / meet a boss. Ibara unintended slowdown is very hard to notice unless I have the frameskip info onscreen, but it happens. No idea on the other games, since I didn't try them - word is MMP is about as bad as PS, and everything else seems to run mostly fine - but again, who knows how "fine" that actually is.

Maybe you just don't have a stupid McAfee ruining everything, I don't know.

[AntiFritz]

A core i3 is beefy now?

I'm on a second gen i5 and Pink Sweets runs it into the ground every time you enter a stage / meet a boss. Ibara unintended slowdown is very hard to notice unless I have the frameskip info onscreen, but it happens. No idea on the other games, since I didn't try them - word is MMP is about as bad as PS, and everything else seems to run mostly fine - but again, who knows how "fine" that actually is.

Maybe you just don't have a stupid McAfee ruining everything, I don't know.

PS/MMP aparently load assets differently than the other games (they load everything at the start of a stage instead of presumably in between). Atleast thats how i understand it. Once it finishes loading though its fine.

[Gus]

I'll say it again:

The slowpoken build isn't perfect, but it's playable. Just like the ports. Myself and plenty others are satisfied. If you aren't, then that's fine, but from a basic playability standpoint, you can get that from the slowpoke build. Besides, there are other games in MAME that have more issues that inaccurate slowdown and no one complains about them.

I think he was more addressing your point that slowdown in the slowpoke build is comparable to the slowdown in the ports. Nobody is denying that to a certain minority who doesn't really care about scoring the MAME versions are fine. These people are in the minority. Most people would like these games to at least have 80-90 percent accurate slowdown, which is what the ports usually deliver.

Oh, come on. Now you're just grasping at straws.

The issue here was replays, which can be found online. Perhaps you won't find something as specific as what you referenced, but is that really going to be a deal breaker for most people who simply want to play the game?

Next you'll be going on and on about the fresh smell when you open the game case.

It's a valid point. It can be a huge bitch to find good replays online for a lot of games and once you do you're usually stuck with 1 great superplay after shifting through countless shit-mediocre runs. You miss out on that upper-mid level which is often more helpful and inspiring for me than the superplays.

[Neith]

My core 2 quad Q9650 @ 3600 mhz runs all of the SH3 games without any slowdown, fraps is frozen at 60 and doesn't budge. The cpu at stock had minor lag.

[Aliquantic]

Why not import a US 360 if you're living in the PAL region and don't already have a 360? You still miss out on the JP only games (Senko no Ronde Duo!), but it should compare favorably to a PAL one for leaderboards, price, availability and speed of release, while still being cheaper than a JP model and games... it'd be downright cheaper than a PAL one too if not for customs!

[Cagar]

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[Nasirosuchus]

I think he was more addressing your point that slowdown in the slowpoke build is comparable to the slowdown in the ports. Nobody is denying that to a certain minority who doesn't really care about scoring the MAME versions are fine. These people are in the minority. Most people would like these games to at least have 80-90 percent accurate slowdown, which is what the ports usually deliver.

There are plenty of people who play for score and use the MAME versions, and in some cases the MAME versions are better than the ports (Mushihime-sama and Ibara).

If someone is such a hardcore gamer that they need everything to be that accurate, then they may as well skip both the ports and the MAME versions and just buy the PCB.

We're not talking about garbled backgrounds, invisible bullets, or sprites not being rendered properly. You know, things that would render the game unplayable. There is nothing about the MAME versions that render the game unplayable.

It's a valid point. It can be a huge bitch to find good replays online for a lot of games and once you do you're usually stuck with 1 great superplay after shifting through countless shit-mediocre runs. You miss out on that upper-mid level which is often more helpful and inspiring for me than the superplays.

That's neither here not there. What we're discussing here is playability, which replays and leader boards have nothing to do with. You don't get replays and leader boards with the PCB's, either. There are enough replays on youtube and nicovideo to give you tips and strategies. I mean, really, how did anyone ever get inspired without watching a superplay?

[Neith]

Turn off v-sync and the input lag feels identical to the 360 versions (MMP + PS)
I play the 360 version on the exact same setup and they are quite similar.
(in terms of input lag. I am in no means qualified to recognise all of the subtle differences, but considering it is emulation it runs extremely well.)

[NzzpNzzp]

That's neither here not there. What we're discussing here is playability, which replays and leader boards have nothing to do with.

Yeah, just move those goalposts, that's always a great debate strategy.

[bcass]

Being able to view the odd expert replay on nico or youtube is no substitute for being able to download a vast selection of replays, with the option to view ones which are closer to your current score/skill level.

Buying a J360 now may not be quite the ultimate that it once was, but for those of us who have had one for the last few years, it's been invaluable. The biggest boon for me has been not having to wait 12+ months for the odd chance that a game might get localised.

[Aliquantic]

We're not talking about garbled backgrounds, invisible bullets, or sprites not being rendered properly. You know, things that would render the game unplayable. There is nothing about the MAME versions that render the game unplayable.

Try and play Futari Ultra on Slowpoke MAME, or use Zetshuskai in Espgaluda II (the critical scoring mechanic), or Death Mode in DS, or any other game that relies heavily on slowdown and doesn't have it in that version. It breaks scoring for a lot of the games and survival in a few others, much in the same way as the pre-patched NA port of Deathsmiles was atrocious for any serious scoring... that's an excellent case study of how poor slowdown can wreck a game incidentally (and that one did get patched).

[Nasirosuchus]

That's neither here not there. What we're discussing here is playability, which replays and leader boards have nothing to do with.

Yeah, just move those goalposts, that's always a great debate strategy.

If anyone moved the goal posts, he did. Myself and someone else already stated that replays could be found online to which he replied that you couldn't find a 300 million score in Death Smiles. However, a point that I will concede is that if you actually care about the extra stuff like arrange modes and leaderboards, then buying the port is a no-brainer. I'm not going to argue against something so obvious.

[Nasirosuchus]

Being able to view the odd expert replay on nico or youtube is no substitute for being able to download a vast selection of replays, with the option to view ones which are closer to your current score/skill level.

Buying a J360 now may not be quite the ultimate that it once was, but for those of us who have had one for the last few years, it's been invaluable. The biggest boon for me has been not having to wait 12+ months for the odd chance that a game might get localised.

Again, I'll concede this. If you want something that specific, then you've got no choice but to buy the port. But again, it does indeed come down to whether or not someone actually cares.

[Nasirosuchus]

We're not talking about garbled backgrounds, invisible bullets, or sprites not being rendered properly. You know, things that would render the game unplayable. There is nothing about the MAME versions that render the game unplayable.

Try and play Futari Ultra on Slowpoke MAME, or use Zetshuskai in Espgaluda II (the critical scoring mechanic), or Death Mode in DS, or any other game that relies heavily on slowdown and doesn't have it in that version. It breaks scoring for a lot of the games and survival in a few others, much in the same way as the pre-patched NA port of Deathsmiles was atrocious for any serious scoring... that's an excellent case study of how poor slowdown can wreck a game incidentally (and that one did get patched).

I've 1cc'ed both Futari and Death Smiles in MAME several times.

Back to arrange modes, leader boards, etc, does any of that really need to be mentioned? I mean, when someone considers emulation, it's safe to say that they know that they're not getting any of the extra game modes or features. If they cared about that stuff, then there really wouldn't be any reason to ask as they would just go ahead and buy the port without consulting this forum.

[Aliquantic]

We're not talking about garbled backgrounds, invisible bullets, or sprites not being rendered properly. You know, things that would render the game unplayable. There is nothing about the MAME versions that render the game unplayable.

Try and play Futari Ultra on Slowpoke MAME, or use Zetshuskai in Espgaluda II (the critical scoring mechanic), or Death Mode in DS, or any other game that relies heavily on slowdown and doesn't have it in that version. It breaks scoring for a lot of the games and survival in a few others, much in the same way as the pre-patched NA port of Deathsmiles was atrocious for any serious scoring... that's an excellent case study of how poor slowdown can wreck a game incidentally (and that one did get patched).

I've 1cc'ed both Futari and Death Smiles in MAME several times.

Please try again, scoring is the argument, and difficulties and modes matter.

[NzzpNzzp]

If anyone moved the goal posts, he did. Myself and someone else already stated that replays could be found online to which he replied that you couldn't find a 300 million score in Death Smiles. However, a point that I will concede is that if you actually care about the extra stuff like arrange modes and leaderboards, then buying the port is a no-brainer. I'm not going to argue against something so obvious.

So wait, you were talking about replays? I thought you just claimed you weren't discussing them.

You're not very good at consistency.

[deexor]

Hate

It's a sensible purchase for a shmup hobbyist, made even more sensible by you not having a previous 360. If it has the games you want to play, just get it.

[ebarrett]

BLAHBLAHBLAH :--DDD *BEING MAD*

Yes you're right that I'm not interested in shmups... wait what? I've really been in shmups for a few years, not so active at playing, but interested as hell. Now I've started PLAYING like hell. Looped both, ketsui and dojbl, even got the 25. place at dojbl high score list. Because I got under 100 posts here, I'm not interested in shmups (or games in general), and I'm just a random kid who wants something that I don't really want? You're saying my arguments are from ass, but just look at your post. Insulting, flaming, nothing constructive.

Wow man, you can't even read for fuck's sake. I'll repeat here even though I shouldn't:

-If I would buy a J360, it would ONLY be for playing shmups. I wouldn't use it for anything else, teh mainstream games I play on my computer.

if you're really in it for shmups exclusively, as you said yourself more than once

This has nothing to do with number of posts or scores or whatever. I was trying to be helpful (if forcefully) and only got gratuitous hostility in return. You have proven to be a complete idiot.

I'm getting J360 so I can be SURE that I can play whatever I want, legally, with good leaderboards and 99-100% slowdowns and speed. Problems?

If you had said only that instead of acting like a retard, sure, yeah, makes sense. There is the issue of MAME being more accurate than the ports (leaving SH3 emulation out - most SH3 stuff is available outside of JP anyway as it has been said, like, a million times already), and buying the ports before playing on MAME being an option, but whatever. I don't really care anymore; go get your J360, if you had it decided already from the beginning what was the fucking point of making a thread to ask for opinions, you fucktard.

[Ghegs]

Go back outside and leave your attitude at the door.

[ebarrett]

Might as well ban me right now if you are going to just let dumb kids run the show. Not interested in being part of the community if these are your moderation standards.

edited because I can't write

[PC Engine Fan X!]

After getting an JPN 360 Slim with an 250GB HDD setup (comes with the obligatory HDMI port as well for 1080p awesomeness), it's a pleasure to be able to play DDP-DFK Black Label (without having to spend upwards of a four-figure range just on the DDP-DFK BL PCB version alone). That was a perfectly valid reason to pick one up. Playing Ketsuipachi is just "extra icing on the cake" since it was never released as a PCB anyways (would've been nice if it was, though).

Bonus points for being able to hook up an 360 to a candy cab with the proper gear. It's all cool with using an dedicated low-res arcade monitor with scanlines and all.

Plus, you can pick up an official Microsoft 360 Slim 320GB HDD for even more storage space if it needed be (as if an 250GB HDD isn't ample enough these days).

The original white colored 360 Multimedia Remote works just fine for playback of DVDs if so desired on a 360 Slim.

Since no one's mentioned this, a 360 Hori Real Arcade Pro EX-SE joystick setup works wonders for your shmupping needs (with all Seimitsu arcade parts for joystick & push buttons). Or you could mix 'n' match Sanwa/Seimitsu parts for a truly customized layout.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Jeneki]

This topic confuses me. I never see people trash talking PCBs because they can play them MAME.

Go with what you can afford and your patience allows. There's a clear correlation between cost and patience: PCBs are available day 1, but the most expensive. Import console ports usually come after a wait, at a moderate cost. Domestic console ports take even longer and may or may not ever come, but are inexpensive when they do. Emulation usually takes a while, but are as cheap as it gets.

[Battlesmurf]

I might've missed it- but nobody mentioned the Shooting love 200x- it's great (and to my knowledge has not been localized).

[Neith]

To me MAME is merely an amusement, but it has some merit.

PCB > console port > emulation - I think most would agree with this?

If money is not an issue and you have no interest in domestic releases (shmup or otherwise) then buy a J360.

I happen to appreciate the translated versions, it will be nice being able to read the text in Akai Katana when it is released shortly.

[bcass]

I'd put the 360 versions above all other versions given how much extra they offer over all the other versions (PCB/MAME) and the huge price difference between PCB/360 release.

[ancestral-knowledge]

If you want to BUY/OWN your shmups and play them on a system where you don't have to worry about compatibility problems the NTSC-J XBOX360 is a wonderful investment. You get the games earlier before they get released for other XBOX360 titles and you can buy some exclusives too like freaky anime style fighting games and such. This only works if you use your console for that.

On the other hand if you just want to PLAY shmups WITHOUT OWNING them there are other more money-efficient ways to this.

[Cuilan]

If you're interested in shmups, vs fighters, and visual novels, a J-360 is the best console to own this generation.

Aside from import costs, I really see no good reason for anyone here to get a US-360 over a JP one. A J-360 grants access to every Japanese release, while retaining access to the vast majority of US releases. For the relatively small hand-full that aren't, there's always English-language Asian releases, which for the most part seem to have prices that are comparable to those of the US versions.

In any case, anyone planning on buying one soon is better off waiting until after E3, since a global price-drop on 360 consoles may very well be announced.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

PCB > console port > emulation - I think most would agree with this?
If money is not an issue and you have no interest in domestic releases (shmup or otherwise) then buy a J360.
I happen to appreciate the translated versions, it will be nice being able to read the text in Akai Katana when it is released shortly.

+1
Ill also add that for PC consistancy of performance from one PC to the next has never been its strong point, especially for new or poorly optimised games. If a game runs flawlessly is often more down to luck then anything else and the only way to know is to test it yourself on your own PC, and even then something might go astray in the future when you make any software or hardware changes. Although building a dedicated MAME PC can bypass much of this.

If you have money to spare and are serious about your hobby spend the cash. Although reading this thread I can make the observation that the J360 replays will be better suited for ppl who play for score. Suvivalists could make to do with YT, but it can be a pain to seperate the wheat from the chaff.