The PS Vita Thread - Remote Play for all PS4 Games

[Friendly]

Vita`s sales in Japan fell to about 14,000 units this week. For comparison, the PSP did around 16,000. If things keep up like this(and I don`t see why they won`t), I think there`s a small chance Sony might pull the plug on this thing.

The system has only been available for 8 weeks, and only in Japan. It's much too early to jump to any conclusions. There is no way to know how it'll sell a few months from now, after a couple of games that Japanese gamers want have been released. Right now, much of the game library appears to be aimed at western players. Furthermore, Japanese sales aren't really any indicator of how it will sell in the rest of the world; otherwise Xbox 360 would dead now (~1,000 units were sold in Japan last week).

[Jonathan Ingram]

after a couple of games that Japanese gamers want have been released.

No such games are scheduled to be released on Vita anytime soon. At least none that we know of. To make matters worse, Sony has absolutely no command over such games, so there`s no guarantee they`ll ever come.

Right now, much of the game library appears to be aimed at western players. Furthermore, Japanese sales aren't really any indicator of how it will sell in the rest of the world; otherwise Xbox 360 would dead now (~1,000 units were sold in Japan last week).

Japanese market is the bread and butter of handhelds. That`s where all the relevant(and bestselling) handheld games come from. Banking on the Western market sounds like an incredibly bad idea, especially for Sony.

[Skykid]

Vita`s sales in Japan fell to about 14,000 units this week. For comparison, the PSP did around 16,000. If things keep up like this(and I don`t see why they won`t), I think there`s a small chance Sony might pull the plug on this thing.

That's a little alarmist. I think it would take a great deal of failure before pulling the plug would occur, since they spent all that money on development and marketing.
3DS has shown the handheld market isn't as ripe as it once was, but with some good software you can bully your way into the smartphone occupied arena. The question is whether or not Sony will have that software, and will it just be rehashes of Uncharted, Killzone and God of War again. The light is starting to die on some of those larger IP's, they could do with something new.

[Friendly]

Right. And let's not forget that even though it isn't selling well in Japan at the moment, it already has an install base of about 600,000 there, and those people are bound to buy *some* games and accessories.

[louisg]

Vita`s sales in Japan fell to about 14,000 units this week. For comparison, the PSP did around 16,000. If things keep up like this(and I don`t see why they won`t), I think there`s a small chance Sony might pull the plug on this thing.

That's a little alarmist. I think it would take a great deal of failure before pulling the plug would occur, since they spent all that money on development and marketing.
3DS has shown the handheld market isn't as ripe as it once was, but with some good software you can bully your way into the smartphone occupied arena. The question is whether or not Sony will have that software, and will it just be rehashes of Uncharted, Killzone and God of War again. The light is starting to die on some of those larger IP's, they could do with something new.

And remember how badly the 3DS was doing at $200 ($250? was that it?). It may just take a price drop.

[Friendly]

And remember how badly the 3DS was doing at $200 ($250? was that it?). It may just take a price drop.

It actually was $250 USD.

Considering the hardware you get, $250 USD for a PS Vita is really a very good price. Other portable devices that can be used for gaming (tablets, phones) have half the processing power and cost 2-3x as much, which people willingly pay every other year (of course their primary use isn't gaming, but you can also use a PS Vita for surfing the net, listening to music or watching videos). In direct comparison with PSV, 3DS was quite overpriced at $250.

The problem isn't value for money, it's perceived value: The question is how much people are willing to spend on a portable gaming device.

[louisg]

And remember how badly the 3DS was doing at $200 ($250? was that it?). It may just take a price drop.

It actually was $250 USD.

Considering the hardware you get, $250 USD for a PS Vita is really a very good price. Other portable devices that can be used for gaming (tablets, phones) have half the processing power and cost 2-3x as much, which people willingly pay every other year (of course their primary use isn't gaming, but you can also use a PS Vita for surfing the net, listening to music or watching videos). In direct comparison with PSV, 3DS was quite overpriced at $250.

The problem isn't value for money, it's perceived value: The question is how much people are willing to spend on a portable gaming device.

Very true. And, generally speaking, it seems like the cost of production does not really factor into the decision to buy a game system-- and especially not a portable. I'd argue that a 'good price' for a portable system isn't in relationship to the cost of production, it's in relationship to how expensive other portables are.

I've been on an Atari Lynx kick. This is a system which launched the same year as the GameBoy, had an emphasis on >4-player LAN gaming (which is how we'd be playing games in the future), and could more or less accurately represent full-size thousand-dollar arcade machine games. Like all the other portable systems which didn't do well, not only were people were not willing to pay the extra $70 or so for it compared with the GB, but it ate batteries.

Though I don't know where that leaves the 3DS. What I hear is that the battery life sucks, which seems unusual for a Nintendo portable. If the criteria for a successful portable is 1.) cheap and 2.) long battery life, then what device these days manages that?

[Friendly]

Media Create Sales: Week 6, 2012 (Feb 06 - Feb 12)

01./00. [PSP] Suikoden: Tsumugareshi Hyakunen no Toki <RPG> (Konami) {2012.02.09} (¥5.980) - 61.784 / NEW
02./00. [PSV] Gravity Rush <ACT> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2012.02.09} (¥5.980) - 43.462 / NEW
03./01. [3DS] Resident Evil: Revelations <ADV> (Capcom) {2012.01.26} (¥5.990) - 26.106 / 216.241 (-40%)
04./06. [3DS] Mario Kart 7 <RCE> (Nintendo) {2011.12.01} (¥4.800) - 23.758 / 1.484.507 (-11%)
05./07. [3DS] Monster Hunter 3G # <ACT> (Capcom) {2011.12.10} (¥5.800) - 21.318 / 1.232.343 (-12%)
06./08. [3DS] Super Mario 3D Land <ACT> (Nintendo) {2011.11.03} (¥4.800) - 19.673 / 1.330.984 (-14%)
07./09. [PS3] Gran Turismo 5 Spec II <RCE> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2012.02.02} (¥4.980) - 12.613 / 34.028 (-41%)
08./05. [PS3] Armored Core V <ACT> (From Software) {2012.01.26} (¥7.800) - 11.673 / 206.354 (-62%)
09./04. [PSV] Ragnarok Odyssey <ACT> (GungHo Online Entertainment) {2012.02.02} (¥5.985) - 8.117 / 41.614 (-76%)
10./15. [WII] Just Dance Wii <ACT> (Nintendo) {2011.10.13} (¥5.800) - 7.896 / 534.946 (+1%)
11./02. [PS3] Soul Calibur V <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2012.02.02} (¥8.380) - 7.519 / 41.847 (-78%)
12./03. [PSP] PhotoKano <SLG> (Kadokawa Games) {2012.02.02} (¥7.140) - 7.361 / 41.456 (-78%)
13./13. [3DS] Inazuma Eleven Go: Shine / Dark <RPG> (Level 5) {2011.12.15} (¥5.800) - 7.099 / 386.863 (-21%)
14./17. [PSP] Monster Hunter Freedom 3 (PSP the Best) <ACT> (Capcom) {2011.09.22} (¥2.990) - 5.955 / 191.808 (-13%)
15./11. [3DS] Rhythm Thief & the Emperor's Treasure <ACT> (Sega) {2012.01.19} (¥6.090) - 5.888 / 61.925 (-38%)
16./18. [WII] Wii Sports Resort with Remote Plus # <SPT> (Nintendo) {2010.11.11} (¥5.800) - 5.867 / 867.985 (+4%)
17./20. [WII] Mario Kart Wii <RCE> (Nintendo) {2008.04.10} (¥5.800) - 5.527 / 3.505.695 (+9%)
18./10. [PS3] Dragon Age II <RPG> (Spike) {2012.02.02} (¥8.379) - 5.308 / 25.236 (-73%)
19./00. [PSP] Vitamin X: Detective B6 # <ADV> (D3 Publisher) {2012.02.09} (¥6.090) - 5.073 / NEW
20./22. [WII] Wii Party # <ETC> (Nintendo) {2010.07.08} (¥4.800) - 4.654 / 2.289.196

See, there even were two PSV games in last week's Japanese top 20.

[Jonathan Ingram]

And remember how badly the 3DS was doing at $200 ($250? was that it?). It may just take a price drop.

A price drop can only produce a temporary spike in sales unless it`s backed up by a popular title or two. The 3DS was never in danger of becoming irrelevant because it had always had stuff like Super Mario, Mario Kart, Pokemon and Animal Crossing planned for it. Those sell millions. PSV has nothing of the sort since Sony doesn`t make games with a hardware selling power.

See, there even were two PSV games in last week's Japanese top 20.

Ragnarok Odyssey, Gravity Rush and Tales of Innocence R were supposed to be among the bigger Vita releases, so those sales are actually pretty sad. ToF R is out of the chart after just one week. And they don`t seem to have helped the Vita hardware sales either as they`ve actually decreased.

[Friendly]

Yes, yes, everything sucks, Sony doomed, world ending, letsnotevenwaitforwesternlaunch.

Capcom
-Street Fighter X Tekken

Konami
-Kojima Productions title
-Metal Gear Solid HD Edition
-New Little King's Story
-Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2012
-Silent Hill: Book of Memories
-Zone of the Enders HD Edition

Level 5
-RPG
-Time Travelers

Namco Bandai
-Gundam Seed: Battle Destiny
-Super Robot Taisen

Sega
-Samurai & Dragons
-Super Monkey Ball: Banana Splitz

Square Enix
-Final Fantasy X HD

Tecmo Koei
-Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus

[Skykid]

Yes, yes, everything sucks, Sony doomed, world ending, letsnotevenwaitforwesternlaunch.

Haha, you are a staunch Sony supporter eh Friendly?

While I'm hoping the Vita does well (the more the merrier I say) I have to admit I don't fancy its chances as a roaring success. I just feel the handheld market has changed drastically since the advent of smartphones. With Nintendo they have a hook with their userbase who seem to connect with their particular style of software (either super casual or super nintendo-ish) whereas we saw with the PSP that regurgitated console IP's were slightly less interesting to consumers.

It's a nice list you have there, but very much the same tact Sony stuck to last time around. Nothing is making much use of the new hardware.

I see it picking up in time and probably has a chance to equal the slow but steady PSP performance, but I doubt it's going to set the world on fire.

[Friendly]

The funny thing is, I don't even like Sony much as a company; the way they treated their PS3 customers was just wrong several times (removal of BC, removal of Linux capability). But I enjoy good hardware, and I'd like there to be healthy competition. If there is only one company, then you have no alternative to crazy stuff like having to pay to be allowed to play your games online, region locking (thanks for that Nintendo) and high prices.

[Drum]

Sometimes competition is good. Sometimes it results in a tragedy of the commons scenario. Both DS and PSP made the dedicated handheld market huuuuge - but now I expect it is going to get a lot smaller. Business demands growth and the economy and shrinking market means two is a crowd, so Nintendo is going to step on Sony's throat. Vita is the wrong product for the market, so they won't need to apply much pressure, but they can't risk any chance of it being a success.

[Ex-Cyber]

Even Sony is arguably hedging with PlayStation Suite and "Sony Entertainment Network". There seems to be a realization somewhere that PlayStation as a set of hardware platforms isn't necessarily the future.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

And remember how badly the 3DS was doing at $200 ($250? was that it?). It may just take a price drop.

It actually was $250 USD.

Considering the hardware you get, $250 USD for a PS Vita is really a very good price. Other portable devices that can be used for gaming (tablets, phones) have half the processing power and cost 2-3x as much, which people willingly pay every other year (of course their primary use isn't gaming, but you can also use a PS Vita for surfing the net, listening to music or watching videos). In direct comparison with PSV, 3DS was quite overpriced at $250.

The problem isn't value for money, it's perceived value: The question is how much people are willing to spend on a portable gaming device.

Very true. And, generally speaking, it seems like the cost of production does not really factor into the decision to buy a game system-- and especially not a portable. I'd argue that a 'good price' for a portable system isn't in relationship to the cost of production, it's in relationship to how expensive other portables are.

I've been on an Atari Lynx kick. This is a system which launched the same year as the GameBoy, had an emphasis on >4-player LAN gaming (which is how we'd be playing games in the future), and could more or less accurately represent full-size thousand-dollar arcade machine games. Like all the other portable systems which didn't do well, not only were people were not willing to pay the extra $70 or so for it compared with the GB, but it ate batteries.

Though I don't know where that leaves the 3DS. What I hear is that the battery life sucks, which seems unusual for a Nintendo portable. If the criteria for a successful portable is 1.) cheap and 2.) long battery life, then what device these days manages that?

Yes, with the usual six double AA batteries setup on an Atari Lynx I / II, 4-5 hours at the minimum was expected as the LCD screen was an voracious energy hog, hence the need to use an official A/C adapter (if playing on it at home). Or use the optional external Lynx battery box with six D batteries & gain 80 hours of solid gameplay time.

American third-party gaming peripheral manufacturer, Nyko, sells a higher capacity 3DS Li-ion battery upgrade that's only $9.99 USD nowdays. Not a bad way to increase your 3DS playing time considerably (compared to using the 1st-party official Nintendo branded 3DS Li-ion battery pack setup). Requires the removal of the 1st-party battery & the 3rd-party battery installed in it's place to reap the benefit of longer gameplay though (while adding a bit of extra weight to the overall portable gaming setup is the only minor tradeoff issue to consider).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Vexorg]

I went to the local Fry's today, and as far as I can tell, they were actually selling Vitas and all the games/accessories already. I don't intend to get one though, since I have basically no reason to do so right now. The PSP was pretty much a one-game system for me (Disgaea) and even though Disgaea 3 is going to be one of the Vita's near-launch titles, I'm pretty sure I've gotten all I'm going to get out of that game on the PS3 version.

[Friendly]

So, it's been released. I thought about it long and hard and then decided not to get one at launch, even though I was very tempted. I'll wait until there are more games that I want and until there is a slight price reduction.
What greatly influenced my decision to hold out is the memory card situation. I understand that they went with a proprietary format to fight piracy. However, their memory cards are way too small and extremely overpriced. Sony isn't even selling the 32GB version in Europe right now (16GB is the largest); US price for 32GB is $100 USD.
If I had gone with the Amazon pre-order offer, I would have received an 8GB card- which is a joke, considering that most downloadable games are 1+ GB; and I'd like to be able put some music and videos onto it, too.

[neorichieb1971]

Predicting a crash of the handheld market before end of 2012.

The way I see it there are 2 kinds of launches. Those where queues go down the street (success) and those where units stay on shelves (failure). Even the Dreamcast and Saturn had queues of people lining the streets and flopped. How can this be anything but a complete and utter failure.

you guys think because its a technological piece of wonder kit that its amazing, but amazing doesn't sell. The "handheld" has suddenly become something people can live without and Sony/Nintendo and co need to start realizing that pretty quickly.

[Friendly]

Predicting a crash of the handheld market before end of 2012.

The way I see it there are 2 kinds of launches. Those where queues go down the street (success) and those where units stay on shelves (failure). Even the Dreamcast and Saturn had queues of people lining the streets and flopped. How can this be anything but a complete and utter failure.

you guys think because its a technological piece of wonder kit that its amazing, but amazing doesn't sell. The "handheld" has suddenly become something people can live without and Sony/Nintendo and co need to start realizing that pretty quickly.

You need to realize that opinion =/= fact. Nintendo's current portable game system, the 3DS is the first handheld ever to reach 5 Million units sold in Japan in only 52 weeks. This makes it not only the fastest selling handheld but the fastest selling video game system EVER in Japan.

You know what what be awesome? If you replied to this by saying "You are right, I didn't research this at all. I should stop making unsubstantiated claims based solely on my personal feelings."

[GaijinPunch]

Both companies should be worried about the longevity. The Wii put Nintendo back on top, but they found out that bitter sweet fact: success is temporary.

[Jonathan Ingram]

You know what what be awesome? If you replied to this by saying "You are right, I didn't research this at all. I should stop making unsubstantiated claims based solely on my personal feelings."

Gotta agree on this one. One seriously needs to be out of the loop to make predictions like that. The 3DS is beating sales records in Japan and it`s also the fastest selling console ever in a number of European countries. And when it comes to Vita, whether it will fail or not has less to do with handhelds becoming irrelevant and more with how Sony handles it.

Handhelds are fucking awesome and they are not going anywhere. Fuck iPhone with its shitty games and its even worse controls. Got myself a Zelda 3DS bundle recently and going to be picking up a Vita pretty soon as well.

[Friendly]

Both companies should be worried about the longevity. The Wii put Nintendo back on top, but they found out that bitter sweet fact: success is temporary.

In short, Nintendo fucked up. The way Wii was designed and handled wasn't sustainable. With Wii, Nintendo targeted previous non-gamers. It worked as far as console sales are concerned. But Nintendo couldn't convince these newcomers to start buying (many) games after the initial purchase of the hardware. Basically, Nintendo didn't create software that convinced those people to become gamers; they did little to make their new business model sustainable. Furthermore, Nintendo apparently was so busy shoveling the money made by selling Wiis that they forgot to supply a steady stream of software to keep their old fans ("core gamers") interested.
For third party developers, the best idea is to release ports of their games on multiple platforms. Wii's inferior hardware made this difficult; PS360 games can't simply be ported by rewriting a bit of code, they basically have to be re-created for Wii. Given Wii's reluctant "casual" owners, one can understand why third party devs didn't feel like investing much effort into this; it's much easier to sell shovelware to uninformed casuals. Which made Wii even less appealing for modern mainstream gamers. One more thing, let's not forget about Wii's terrible online infrastructure.

[Blackbird]

If handheld sales haven't been as good as they could be recently, I think it has a lot to do with pricing. In my opinion, handhelds are way overpriced this generation. I don't recall how much the DS was when it launched, but I am reasonably sure that it was cheaper. The current price for a brand-new DS lite is 130 dollars or less (probably even lower), less than half the cost of a loaded Vita. Sure, the DS is a generation old, but consumers are extremely concerned with a price/features ratio. The current price of handhelds is actually so high that it competes directly with smartphones and tablets (even low-end notebooks), which I think is a mistake. When the price points are too close, consumers start comparing the two products, and thinking "Oh, they both play games, but the smartphone also checks my email and has x other features the handheld doesn't have." In my opinion handhelds should be extremely stripped down, feature-wise, and focused solely on creating the best gaming experience possible. Then they could be sold at a much lower price point, and the consumer will have to seriously consider whether they want to spend another 50 to 100 dollars to purchase up to a more full-featured smartphone/multifunctional device.

[Friendly]

[Khan]

I think people are confusing the fact that the Vita is a dedicated games handheld you cannot compare it to a smartphone because frankly the smartphone games are pretty basic only maybe a handful are what you could call "Real" games

[neorichieb1971]

Predicting a crash of the handheld market before end of 2012.

The way I see it there are 2 kinds of launches. Those where queues go down the street (success) and those where units stay on shelves (failure). Even the Dreamcast and Saturn had queues of people lining the streets and flopped. How can this be anything but a complete and utter failure.

you guys think because its a technological piece of wonder kit that its amazing, but amazing doesn't sell. The "handheld" has suddenly become something people can live without and Sony/Nintendo and co need to start realizing that pretty quickly.

You need to realize that opinion =/= fact. Nintendo's current portable game system, the 3DS is the first handheld ever to reach 5 Million units sold in Japan in only 52 weeks. This makes it not only the fastest selling handheld but the fastest selling video game system EVER in Japan.

You know what what be awesome? If you replied to this by saying "You are right, I didn't research this at all. I should stop making unsubstantiated claims based solely on my personal feelings."

You are right, I didn't research this at all. I should stop making unsubstantiated claims based solely on my personal feelings.

But not just my own feelings. I only know one person in real life out of 15 gamers that is getting a Vita. I only know one person that has a 3DS. As a gamer, I don't see that as success. When the PS1 launched every Tom, Dick and Harry bought one.

I don't know much about Japan apart from they get alot of earthquakes lately and Xbox 360 sells like dog shit. What are the 3DS USA and Euro figures? Do both combined even equal Japans amazing record?

[Jonathan Ingram]

But not just my own feelings. I only know one person in real life out of 15 gamers that is getting a Vita. I only know one person that has a 3DS. As a gamer, I don't see that as success. When the PS1 launched every Tom, Dick and Harry bought one.

That`s just anecdotal evidence that doesn`t really amount to anything.

What are the 3DS USA and Euro figures? Do both combined even equal Japans amazing record?

The worldwide sales of the 3DS are at 15 million as of last December.

[neorichieb1971]

Well to be honest 3DS didn't even break into my world. I didn't even know it was released that long ago. Perhaps I'm just not in touch with the gaming world anymore. I came into this thread thinking Vita was the main point of discussion. I don't think it will do as well as the PSP did.

[Jonathan Ingram]

I don't think it will do as well as the PSP did.

Now that(and we can say it with certainty) it really won`t.

[evil_ash_xero]

It's a sad day when handhelds are in danger of being pushed out of relevancy by a smartphone.

The future sucks.