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[Cagar]

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[Drachenherz]

Why does almost every single shmup have these generic spaceships / airplanes destroying stuff that end in huge yellow explosions?
Why is it that shmups with different theme (imagine a shmup where you destroy flying monster-cakes with a spoon) don't seem to do so well?
Why does cave and every famous shmup-makers just go with the realistic spaceship/war theme?

Please, give me the longest & deepest answers you can...

Because spaceships, shooting stuff and explosions just rule!!!

Sorry, couldn't write it any longer and deeper.

[Obscura]

I'm sorry, did I slip into an alternate universe where Ketsui is better known than Touhou to most of the world?

[Cagar]

I'm sorry, did I slip into an alternate universe where Ketsui is better known than Touhou to most of the world?

known =/= liked
take a look at the touhou-hate here

[Ebbo]

Why does cave and every famous shmup-makers just go with the realistic spaceship/war theme?

What.

There are plenty of shooters with less serious tones, Parodius-series comes first in mind. And Cave's Pink Sweet and Muchi Muchi Pork aren't that serious either. Just try looking a bit harder

[Cagar]

Why does cave and every famous shmup-makers just go with the realistic spaceship/war theme?

What.

There are plenty of shooters with less serious tones, Parodius-series comes first in mind. And Cave's Pink Sweet and Muchi Muchi Pork aren't that serious either. Just try looking a bit harder

I thought that deathsmiles is hated almost in every way, escpesially thanks to it's lolism. And that's the subject here.
I'm not trying to find shmups that aren't serious, I know that there ARE shmups with no spaceships or planes, but "the best ones" are mostly them.
EDIT: Oh, and take a look at your own game. Why spaceships?

[Obscura]

I'm sorry, did I slip into an alternate universe where Ketsui is better known than Touhou to most of the world?

known =/= liked
take a look at the touhou-hate here

The impression I've gotten in my month of lurking is that the haters are just more vocal. Both IN and PCB made honorable mention in the top 25, so they can't be that hated.

Also, outside of this forum, I'd wager that on the whole, Touhou is more liked than Ketsui.

EDIT: In response to your response to Ebbo, Deathsmiles is hardly hated, having nearly made the top 10 in the aforementioned poll.

[mesh control]

Guwange, Twinkle Tale, Pocky 'n Rocky, Mamoru-kun, Shock Troopers, Outzone, Fixeight, etc.


Spaceships and aliens are cool. deal with it.

[Blackbird]

There's an entire subgenre called "cute em' ups" which is the antithesis of realistic space combat. I wouldn't even call Cave's stuff all that serious. Sure, the DonPachi series has space ships, but Cave games are ridiculously overloaded with bright, saturated colors. A far cry from the dull, grey-and-brown palette that comes to mind when I think about "realistic games". Additionally, many games have human characters in place of a craft, like Mushi or Gunbird.

So yeah, if everything seems like spaceships to you, then I think you just haven't been exposed to enough games.

[Ebbo]

EDIT: Oh, and take a look at your own game. Why spaceships?

Because my game's big bad is a green orange.

There is a fine balance there somewhere...

[Elixir]

Also, outside of this forum, I'd wager that on the whole, Touhou is more liked than Ketsui.

An entire series of eight games, four difficulties per game, which everyone pirated and downloaded for free, usable on any PC worldwide, using their own controller of choice

is more popular than

A single arcade game, failed PS2 project, arcade board keeping a market value of 80,000 - 90,000 yen for years, ported to consoles seven years later, requiring a Japanese 360, with limited choice in controllers, and a MAME rom which was publicized 8 years after release yet C&D'd by Cave themselves.

I wonder which is more liked?

[Cagar]

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[Estebang]

You've got a lot to learn, Cagar. These sweeping generalizations based on misconceptions aren't going to cut it.

- Deathsmiles is Cave's most successful franchise, and many of us, myself included, really like it
- Shmups with typical spaceship/airplane aesthetics have been a minority for at least a decade now
- Not all of us hate lolis or cute-em-ups
- Touhou is only popular for the characters and remixes; a lot of fans barely know the games exist
- You'll find nothing but praise for the Touhou games in most other circles

[Paradigm]

I was gonna make a pretty big post with quotes and everything but I cba.

When the levels of retardation are this high there's just no saving you.

[saucykobold]

imagine a shmup where you destroy flying monster-cakes with a spoon

There are a number of very well-regarded series with lighthearted themes, such as Fantasy Zone, TwinBee, and Parodius. The latter instantly jumped to mind when I read the quoted bit. According to Gamest magazine, DA! and Gokujyou blew away the competition (Raiden, RayForce) in their respective years.

I like tanks and giant mermaids about equally. It's the underlying gameplay that'll determine whether I put serious time into a shooter, though.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

When the levels of retardation are this high there's just no saving you.

I think he just hasnt been into the genre that long and doesnt know whats out there.

@ Cagar As other have stated its usually the other way around lolis / avatars are everywhere and spaceshits are more of a minority, epecially when it comes to doujin games. Spaceship shmups tend to get mentioned alot on this forum as thats what most of use prefer.

Not all of us hate lolis or cute-em-ups

True, even many of us who moan about lolis probably dont hate them per-se, were just sick of them. For the record I love deathsmiles look, and I dont really care how CAVE uses lolis in their games, because they dont let it compromise the gameplay like Otomedius and Touhou does. Still that dress systemin SDOJ does worry me

[TrevHead (TVR)]

When I first got into the genre I wasnt to bothered about how shmups look, but now ive played a few I get a really woody when it comes to aesthetics, and its just as important as gameplay to me nowadays. I use the word aesthetics because im not a total graphics whore, Im quite stoked to play Ebbo's game when he finishes it http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29058

Anyway when it comes to aesthetics in shmups my favorites would be the colorful games by CAVE, the 3D shmups like Sina Mora. For doujin I love the visual style like Hellsinker, Samidare, Project Repliser and Under the Lotus. Im glad that doujin devs are finally moving away from Touhou's style as that well is completely dry imo

[SuperSoaker360]

I purchased Deathsmiles a week ago and I love it. The game is great and I definitely find it a worthy Cave STG despite the loli-tastic themes. I'm not too anal about looks.

For the record I love deathsmiles look, and I dont really care how CAVE uses lolis in their games, because they dont let it compromise the gameplay like Otomedius and Touhou does.

I saw Otomedius Excellent in the store the other day and considered buying it sometime in the near future. Is there something I should be forewarned about?

[Estebang]

Oto Excellent is very easy even when played on Expert (unless you have the patience to get to higher loops), and you'll need to hunt down certain weapon cards before you can hope to kill any of the bosses before they time out. The first stage is pretty boring, I guess. That's all there is to "warn" about; it really is just a standard above-average Konami shmup in HD with a lot of selectable characters, DLC, and some fairly robust customization. It's not going to be anyone's favorite Gradius, but I would still recommend it to anyone who likes Konami's shmups. After all, it's probably going to be their final one.

There's three paid DLC stages; the first and third are very much worth playing,. You can skip the second, unless you're a huge Goemon fan. All of them are much harder than anything in the main game, largely because you have to start from scratch. I still haven't beaten EX Stage 3!

[Kollision]

in Homura bosses explode into a green slimy smoke of hell

[Rex Cavalier]

Tired of generic themes?

Play Hellsinker, bro

Edit: And Radio Zonde

[NzzpNzzp]

Viva Core is still the best boss ever.

[Casper<3]

I purchased Deathsmiles a week ago and I love it. The game is great and I definitely find it a worthy Cave STG despite the loli-tastic themes. I'm not too anal about looks.

yea...Deathsmiles is the only CAVE game with Loli's xD

[Moniker]

Shmup aesthetics are important insofar as videogame aesthetics in general are important. They give atmosphere, aid suspension of disbelief, and give you some eye candy. The theme tends not to matter, so long as it's well-executed. I honestly can't imagine much more of substance really being said on the matter.

[louisg]

As much as I try to get away from the art in shmups and evaluate games solely on gameplay, I find myself enjoying the military-themed or sci-fi themed shmups a lot more than cute 'em ups or more Anime-derived themes.

[kid aphex]

I always thought about ships>shmups = bodies>fighters
You can stray ... but the further you do, the weirder it feels

If you're talking about colors, etc., I think there's a pretty big variety out there at this point

[burgerkingdiamond]

How can you say the CAVE's games only stick to military themes?

Have you heard of
Muchi Muchi Pork (well endowed motorcycle riding Pig/women)
Pink Sweets (who the hell knows what's going on here..)
Guwange (feudal japan hijinks)
Dangun Feveron (sure it's got spaceships, but it also has spinning disco men too)
Mushihimesama (giant bugs and dinosaurs. Coolest idea for a game ever)
Deathsmiles (underaged semi-nude girls on broomsticks)
Espgaluda (fairy hermaphrodite people?? I don't know what's the story in this one either)
esprade (psychic powered teenagers)

and on the other hand you have the DDP series, and Ketsui.

[Casper<3]

How can you say the CAVE's games only stick to military themes?

Have you heard of
Muchi Muchi Pork (well endowed motorcycle riding Pig/women)
Pink Sweets (who the hell knows what's going on here..)
Guwange (feudal japan hijinks)
Dangun Feveron (sure it's got spaceships, but it also has spinning disco men too)
Mushihimesama (giant bugs and dinosaurs. Coolest idea for a game ever)
Deathsmiles (underaged semi-nude girls on broomsticks)
Espgaluda (fairy hermaphrodite people?? I don't know what's the story in this one either)
esprade (psychic powered teenagers)

and on the other hand you have the DDP series, and Ketsui.

Fixed:

Muchi Muchi Pork - Pig Lolis
Pink Sweets - Gay Candyland with Flowergirl Lolis
Guwange - 2 Utawarerumono rejects want to gangbang a loli
Dangun Feveron - every one has an experimental phase, including CAVE
Mushihimesama - Bug Riding Loli has HUGE tits, best idea for a game ever
Deathsmiles - Loli's in Wonderland!
Espgaluda - 2 transexual weirdos are out to defeat the totally awesome steampunk loli queen Sesseri
DDP DFK - Mecha Transforming Lolis
Ketsui - Has no Lolis therefore is a bad game. Wasn't really made by CAVE was made by Evac Industries.

[burgerkingdiamond]

haha nice edit. I don't actually think that they're brilliant themes, but on the other hand I don't care about the story in a shmup. Although I do absolutely love Futari's artwork and design. I was just pointing out that's just plain wrong to state that CAVE only does military/space themed games.

[Estebang]

Ibara - two steampunk bishonen embark on a quest to violate 5 lolis (They don't let Rosa survive to the sequel because her tits are too big).

Sounds like the premise of Steam Heart's!