Differences between JP Raiden DX and 1996 Raiden DX pcbs?

[Frenetic]

Hi guys,

Anyone know the differences between the two? Why is the JP Raiden DX valued more than the new 1996 Raiden DX version?

Cheers,
F

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Considering that the later re-released 1996 "New Version" variant of Raiden DX uses a lower grade sound chip with shorter BGM loops (to cut down on production costs of said PCBs), hence the desire to get the original variant release with the better Yamaha sound chip.

The Raiden II PCB got a 1996 "New Version" PCB re-release also (despite it's original 1993 release in both Japanese game centers & arcades worldwide). Of course, both NV variants of Raiden II & Raiden DX are official Seibu Kaihatsu PCBs as well. It was Fabtek whom handled the proper distribution of the Raiden arcade PCB franchise in the USA (including the SP1 cartridge release of Viper Phase 1 U.S.A. {aka Viper Phase 1 "New Version" in Japan} running on Seibu's SP1 arcade platform).

The combined SP1 mobo + cart all-in-one single layer PCB setup found in the likes of Raiden Fighters 2: Operation Hell Diver / Raiden Fighters Jet / Raiden Fighters Jet 2000 (China region variant), there are some PCBs that have the excellent Yamaha sound chip on-board and on some others, that's not the case (resulting in a subpar audio experience during a serious shmup session). It's a good idea to inquire if said Raiden II/DX/Fighters 2/Fighters Jet/Jet 2000 PCB uses the desired Yamaha sound chip is present, otherwise pass up on it & look elsewhere.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[antron]

There are also region differences between the old style boards as well. In particular, the Japan region does not have autofire.

[cools]

The old style boards can be version ROM swapped easily enough.

[antron]

The old style boards can be version ROM swapped easily enough.

good to know, any idea if there are other region differences, like difficulty?

I recently picked up a GB region 1993 board.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The old style boards can be version ROM swapped easily enough.

For cools,

So it'd be a matter of swapping the all of the version ROM eproms from, say, an old-style Raiden DX PCB to an old-style Raiden II PCB and it'd work just fine?

Which eproms are needed to do so? Some pics would be most helpful. I've got an 100% working old-style Fabtek USA region Raiden II PCB and an old-style Fabtek USA region Raiden DX PCB (but it has some minor background sprite corruption). Am curious to see if the minor graphical corruption would go away if said region Rom eproms pulled from Raiden DX would work much better if placed in the ol' Raiden II PCB setup.

The backup battery is still present on the Raiden II PCB, whereas on the Raiden DX PCB, it's not present whatsoever.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Frenetic]

Thanks so much guys for the info on the differences. I definitely know now which version to get. I want the Fabtek US release with the Yamaha sound chip. I heard Raiden boards have prevalent trace rot though...is this true or not? If so, how do I guard against it?

[Ed Oscuro]

It was Fabtek whom handled the proper distribution of the Raiden arcade PCB franchise in the USA (including the SP1 cartridge release of Viper Phase 1 U.S.A. {aka Viper Phase 1 "New Version" in Japan} running on Seibu's SP1 arcade platform).

Who handled the improper distribution?

[nonosto]

is it possible to swap sound chip from 1996 version with a yamaha chip sound? if yes how to?

[Ed Oscuro]

It's an interesting question and I've wondered on it too, but I would expect that at best it would take a huge effort by somebody who knows the hardware intimately. For one thing, Raiden DX '94 seems to use a OKI MSM6295 and Yamaha YM2151 OPM for audio. Raiden DX 1996 (V33?) only uses the OKI MSM6295. I don't believe the newer, smaller board has an unpopulated place for the Yamaha chip. And on top of that, I believe there are differences in the game ROMs too.

Even if you succeed there, I believe the video output is still worse than the original release. Maybe somebody will make an effort to upgrade the later revision boards and succeed. Who knows, with enough cash anything is possible, right?

A MAME dev commented on differences here: viewtopic.php?p=799774#p799774

Somebody took a look at converting between Raiden II and DX, which are much more similar - but even this was deemed too difficult to undertake for the payoff. Of course, 'sacrificing' a later 1996 board isn't quite as jarring as trying to upgrade Raiden II to DX, as Raiden II is still a sought-after game by itself. https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads ... o-dx.5693/

[ShootTheCore]

> So it'd be a matter of swapping the all of the version ROM eproms from, say, an old-style Raiden DX PCB to an old-style Raiden II PCB and it'd work just fine?

No, you can region swap within the same game by programming and installing socketed ROMs, but there are dramatic differences between the 1992 Raiden II PCB and the 1993 Raiden DX PCB since Raiden DX has twice as much code data. It might be possible, but at a minimum you'd have to desolder a bunch of existing sockets, replace them with different sockets, cut a few traces, and then run patch wires from the new sockets to the Seibu protection custom chip, all to accommodate the additional memory addressing in DX.

Full details here:https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads ... ost-123532

> is it possible to swap sound chip from 1996 version with a yamaha chip sound? if yes how to?

Nope, the sound hardware layout on the PCB and the sound program code are completely different on the 1996 New Release version - there literally aren't spots or traces on the PCB to accommodate the 1993 sound hardware or the higher-quality sound data. You'd have to rig up some kind of homemade daughter board to hold the 1993 sound hardware and run a bunch of patch wires over to the main PCB to support it.

If you keep an eye out, you should be able to land a original 1993 Raiden DX board for a reasonable price. I landed one last year for around $250 after several months of looking, and sold off my 1992 Raiden II PCB for $200. DX is an expensive board in Japan, but cheaper everywhere else, and given the cost difference and electrical engineering challenges, it's much easier to just track down an original DX than attempt a conversion from II.

One interesting thing to know about the 1996 New Version - even though that board has inferior sound hardware, both Raiden II and Raiden DX are always on the same board, regardless of the labeling. Power on with all four directional buttons triggered for either Player 1 or Player 2 and the board will swap over to the other game.

[Ed Oscuro]

The game swap trick doesn't work in MAME, shame. I also got a detail wrong: The original boards have TWO OKI sample chips in addition to the Yamaha chip. The V33 board only has one sample chip for all the audio. I might be wrong about the video quality too, as I'm thinking of a low-cost Raiden Fighters Jet board that has lower quality video.