Sony report $2.9 Billion Annual Loss

[Estebang]

They'd just write the English Four in katakana, then.

[ancestral-knowledge]

^ Considering LCD lightguns can be picked up for under £30, I can imagine quite a few Move users will be quite pissed.

Isnt there any (good) games that use the nunchuck and play like Sin and Punishment 2? (Shame Treasure hasnt ported it over)

EXACTLY! THERE ARE ONLY GAMES FOR RETARDS FOR KINECT AND MOVE (same goes for wii of course)!

why the fuck are they making these stupid wii-style games for retards and babies again on the move and kinect? violence should not be a problem since we are not talking about nintendo, you know the company that is only capable of producing minigames alongside with one decent zelda per year.

fucking tennis ? are you kidding me? tennis and stupid bullshit games like hula hop or shaking crappy instruments to rhythm? is that all they could have come up with? do i need a kinect or ps move for that kind of crap? NO!! fuck that

I WANT VIOLENT GAMES WHERE THE CONTROLS MAKE PERFECTLY SENSE!

Give me a hand to hand combat game where i am able to slay and slash people while wielding a katana or even 2 close combat weapons. Give me a game in a medieval setting where i am a knight that has a shield and a sword or a spiked mace that smashes peoples skulls. Give me a fucking star wars game where i can cut people in half with lightsabers and energy-weopons. Give me a game of a violent anime like berserk where i can slay monsters with a two-handed giant bastard sword. Give me a ninja game where i can throw daggers and shuriken while piercing through people with sai knives.

WHERE ARE THESE GAMES?

[Jonathan Ingram]

I think a lot of those would be better with a lightgun... right?

They would, if lightguns weren`t completetly dead in the water. It would be cool if House of the Dead 4 featured GunCon 3 support, but since it most likely won`t, I`ll gladly settle for Move + Sharpshooter combo.

A Monster Hunter Vita game has been confirmed for the second half of the year (probably a G version of MH4), so I'm not too worried about the Vita's prospects. MH is pretty much Japan's Call of Duty at this point: 3G single-handedly accounted for a huge boost to 3DS sales.

Monster Hunter 4 for the 3DS is still a ways off. I don`t see how Vita is going to get MH4G this year.

[BPzeBanshee]

I think the classifications getting tighter as of the last five years (L4D2's bullshit in US/Aus surprised everyone) have contributed a fair bit to the lack of decent violent games and therefore the silly focus on silly games.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

WHERE ARE THESE GAMES?

On the Kinnect, only the device itself is a laggy casual POS

[D]

Why is the Sony SharpShooter 50 Euro´s? (con)Damn them!

[Cuilan]

After all the worldwide install base of PS3 and 360 is equal now; who would have thought this possible 2-3 years ago.

In terms of global sales, the 360 is actually 4 million units ahead of the PS3, and the gap appears to be getting wider.

[Friendly]

After all the worldwide install base of PS3 and 360 is equal now; who would have thought this possible 2-3 years ago.

In terms of global sales, the 360 is actually 4 million units ahead of the PS3, and the gap appears to be getting wider.

No it doesn't appear to get wider. PS3 outsold 360 globally for the past couple of years (Microsoft incorrectly claimed to have sold more systems in 2011, but it seems that PS3 actually outsold 360 by more half a Million consoles last year; we'll find out for sure next month). In total sales, 360 is about 3 Million ahead. However, the total install base is not. Simple reason: While MS was forced to introduce an extended warranty to avoid massive lawsuits and customer dissatisfaction due to the insane number of hardware failures, this extended warranty is now over for most people (after 5 years nearly 100% of the very first model "Xenon" have failed; the failure rate finally reached industry standard with the Jasper and Trinity revisions). This means that a significant number of 360 owners have purchased multiple 360s. This is made evident by the software sales, which are not 5% ahead for 360.

[Shocky]

^ Considering LCD lightguns can be picked up for under £30, I can imagine quite a few Move users will be quite pissed.

Isnt there any (good) games that use the nunchuck and play like Sin and Punishment 2? (Shame Treasure hasnt ported it over)

EXACTLY! THERE ARE ONLY GAMES FOR RETARDS FOR KINECT AND MOVE (same goes for wii of course)!

why the fuck are they making these stupid wii-style games for retards and babies again on the move and kinect? violence should not be a problem since we are not talking about nintendo, you know the company that is only capable of producing minigames alongside with one decent zelda per year.

fucking tennis ? are you kidding me? tennis and stupid bullshit games like hula hop or shaking crappy instruments to rhythm? is that all they could have come up with? do i need a kinect or ps move for that kind of crap? NO!! fuck that

I WANT VIOLENT GAMES WHERE THE CONTROLS MAKE PERFECTLY SENSE!

Give me a hand to hand combat game where i am able to slay and slash people while wielding a katana or even 2 close combat weapons. Give me a game in a medieval setting where i am a knight that has a shield and a sword or a spiked mace that smashes peoples skulls. Give me a fucking star wars game where i can cut people in half with lightsabers and energy-weopons. Give me a game of a violent anime like berserk where i can slay monsters with a two-handed giant bastard sword. Give me a ninja game where i can throw daggers and shuriken while piercing through people with sai knives.

WHERE ARE THESE GAMES?

I hear you. These games are called MadWorld and Red Steel 1-2 and they are for the Wii (maybe also No More Heroes 1-2). Those should quench your blood thirst...

The thing is, slicing thin air is not at all interesting, and I don't see the wiimotes and moves getting a collision emulation anytime soon. Kinect is even worse of course, but at least it might be able to recognize throwing gestures well enough (?).

Luckily lightgun type of shooting can be done, and at least on the PS3 there are plenty of cool stuff, the best ones being Dead Space Extraction, Killzone 3 and other violent shit.
I don't know about the rest of the 9 million, but I'm happy with the Move and playing these games quite regularly (lately been playing the DS:E challenge mode and Child of Eden). As for casual gaming, The Shoot *is* fun with the Move gun add-on. Sharpshooter is too heavy and clumsy, I guess it would require a huge projected screen and a slower-paced gameplay to really enjoy it - a GunCon 3 feels much better. I hope game creators would use the PS Eye to crudely detect throwing gestures, so I could chuck grenades in any game without having to remember which button readied it and how to throw it (even when playing with the normal control pad).

After all the worldwide install base of PS3 and 360 is equal now; who would have thought this possible 2-3 years ago.

In terms of global sales, the 360 is actually 4 million units ahead of the PS3, and the gap appears to be getting wider.

No it doesn't appear to get wider. PS3 outsold 360 globally for the past couple of years (Microsoft incorrectly claimed to have sold more systems in 2011, but it seems that PS3 actually outsold 360 by more half a Million consoles last year; we'll find out for sure next month). In total sales, 360 is about 3 Million ahead. However, the total install base is not. Simple reason: While MS was forced to introduce an extended warranty to avoid massive lawsuits and customer dissatisfaction due to the insane number of hardware failures, this extended warranty is now over for most people (after 5 years nearly 100% of the very first model "Xenon" have failed; the failure rate finally reached industry standard with the Jasper and Trinity revisions). This means that a significant number of 360 owners have purchased multiple 360s. This is made evident by the software sales, which are not 5% ahead for 360.

Right. The PS3 might already have a bigger install base - the xbox failure rate was just that immense, some people had to get/buy a replacement console even five times. However these players had already established a netplay identity and bought games, so they just bit the bullet and got another xbox instead of switching to a competitor's product. Besides this statistics-distortion, another thing affecting the software sales is piracy, which is marginal on the PS3 (I've only ever met one guy who does this) but apparently more rampant on the xbox. Then again, a lot of people have bought a PS3 just for a blu-ray player and this tips the software sales weights too.

[Friendly]

In terms of global sales, the 360 is actually 4 million units ahead of the PS3, and the gap appears to be getting wider.

No it doesn't appear to get wider. PS3 outsold 360 globally for the past couple of years (Microsoft incorrectly claimed to have sold more systems in 2011, but it seems that PS3 actually outsold 360 by more half a Million consoles last year; we'll find out for sure next month). In total sales, 360 is about 3 Million ahead. However, the total install base is not. Simple reason: While MS was forced to introduce an extended warranty to avoid massive lawsuits and customer dissatisfaction due to the insane number of hardware failures, this extended warranty is now over for most people (after 5 years nearly 100% of the very first model "Xenon" have failed; the failure rate finally reached industry standard with the Jasper and Trinity revisions). This means that a significant number of 360 owners have purchased multiple 360s. This is made evident by the software sales, which are not 5% ahead for 360.

Right. The PS3 might already have a bigger install base - the xbox failure rate was just that immense, some people had to get/buy a replacement console even five times. However these players had already established a netplay identity and bought games, so they just bit the bullet and got another xbox instead of switching to a competitor's product. Besides this statistics-distortion, another thing affecting the software sales is piracy, which is marginal on the PS3 (I've only ever met one guy who does this) but apparently more rampant on the xbox. Then again, a lot of people have bought a PS3 just for a blu-ray player and this tips the software sales weights too.

The business term for this is lock-in effect. The RRoD debacle cost Microsoft approximately $1 Billion dollars, which is small change for them. This was the price of being first-to-market, and it was totally worth it.

[Skykid]

Well honestly, when the PS3 debuted I didn't think it would even close the gap to a degree of 3 million. It's done well, considering the early marketing issues.
Mine has been the most dormant of all my current gen consoles, but that's obviously not reflective of the market as a whole. I'm sure the redesign helped sales too, since it's so much nicer than the behemoth under my TV.

Back OT however, it's done nothing for the Sony stable this past financial year.

[Friendly]

There's another reason for Sony's current losses, and that's PS Vita. Preproduction costs were probably high, and I'm almost certain they are currently selling it at a loss.

I don't dare to make any predictions on how Vita will fare in today's world of smartphones, tablet PCs and their 1-dollar Angry Birds. If consumers can be convinced of the added value of having a real dedicated gaming system with buttons and "real" games, it might be fine. Unfortunately I haven't seen much marketing, if any. Is Sony even advertising PS Vita? Given its launch in 2 weeks, there should be ads all over the place...

[neorichieb1971]

I have 8 games for PS3 or thereabouts. Pretty shallow considering past generations where 3 figures wasn't unheard of.

If I had an Xbox I would get into the shoot em up scene which would add possibly 10 titles. Out of those 8 I bought, 3 or 4 of them didn't appeal that much but got excellent reviews, so I dipped anyway.

[louisg]

I have 8 games for PS3 or thereabouts. Pretty shallow considering past generations where 3 figures wasn't unheard of.

If I had an Xbox I would get into the shoot em up scene which would add possibly 10 titles. Out of those 8 I bought, 3 or 4 of them didn't appeal that much but got excellent reviews, so I dipped anyway.

100 games for a system during the gen? Holy cow. I always figure that if I can find a dozen games I personally like enough to buy new, the system is worth it. I pretty much sat out this gen aside from picking up a Wii (which I can't currently name 12 games I like that much on); it probably means I'm getting old

[neorichieb1971]

Sorry, I may have confused you. I bought over 100 games for Saturn, PS1 and N64. But since this gen I only have a PS3 and not much interest in an Xbox, I will have to do with 2 figures.

Mind you thats not considering downloads, I've got a few downloadable games. Probably 10.

[StarCreator]

There's another reason for Sony's current losses, and that's PS Vita. Preproduction costs were probably high, and I'm almost certain they are currently selling it at a loss.

Google tells me the teardown cost for a 3G Vita is around $160, so if you're only looking at hardware cost it's certainly not being sold at a loss. No way to know looking outside in how much of the $140 margin goes toward software/engineering cost.

[Friendly]

There's another reason for Sony's current losses, and that's PS Vita. Preproduction costs were probably high, and I'm almost certain they are currently selling it at a loss.

Google tells me the teardown cost for a 3G Vita is around $160, so if you're only looking at hardware cost it's certainly not being sold at a loss. No way to know looking outside in how much of the $140 margin goes toward software/engineering cost.

That figure does not include assembly, QA, packaging and handling (and of course development costs). As comparison, the teardown cost of 3DS was $99 USD; yet Nintendo was (is?) selling it at a loss after the pricedrop to $170 USD.

[neorichieb1971]

They all deserve to lose money when they bring out shite like they do.

We are at the stage where companies feel they have to do something special to get our attention. Making good games would be a nice start. Screw the hardware. Although I admit handhelds are ridiculous by design. I don't care for any of them since the GB.

[Friendly]

Richie's pearls of wisdom.

[Skykid]

Richie's pearls of wisdom.

Ha ha, he does have a few from time to time.

We are at the stage where companies feel they have to do something special to get our attention. Making good games would be a nice start. Screw the hardware. Although I admit handhelds are ridiculous by design. I don't care for any of them since the GB.

I don't agree with the handheld statement, there have been a ton of great bits of hardware since the GB, but on the recent game front you're not really wrong. At least, the ratio of average tat has increased exponentially versus the stuff that commands your time. Do you still play classic stuff Richie? I sorta get the impression you're just sticking with current gen and feeling dissatisfied with it.

[Ex-Cyber]

Even from an engineering standpoint, "screw the hardware" makes some sense. At this point everyone is basically just licensing a bunch of CPU/GPU IP cores from third parties (ARM, ImgTec, AMD, etc.). Rolling your own is a huge investment and a huge risk (can you beat ARM, or will they release a core that utterly kicks your ass before your core is even done?). So in some sense hardware-wise we can't really expect anyone to have anything special. They might make somewhat different tradeoffs on size/power/performance/cost, but everyone basically has access to the same technology and in all likelihood will even be implementing mostly the same instruction sets and APIs (ARM / OpenGL ES). Basically in the console world it seems like it's now all about which console vendors are blowing which developers. Not that this wasn't a factor before, but now it seems like it's the only thing left to really differentiate one platform from another.

[neorichieb1971]

Richie's pearls of wisdom.

Ha ha, he does have a few from time to time.

We are at the stage where companies feel they have to do something special to get our attention. Making good games would be a nice start. Screw the hardware. Although I admit handhelds are ridiculous by design. I don't care for any of them since the GB.

I don't agree with the handheld statement, there have been a ton of great bits of hardware since the GB, but on the recent game front you're not really wrong. At least, the ratio of average tat has increased exponentially versus the stuff that commands your time. Do you still play classic stuff Richie? I sorta get the impression you're just sticking with current gen and feeling dissatisfied with it.

I'd play my cabs if it weren't minus 18 in the garage mate. My main concern about todays gaming is that we are in a groove that we are stuck in. I can't see the light beyond FPS, uncharted and sports type games. Whilst the buzz surrounds these types of games I'm never going to be totally satisfied. I know other games exist, but I want those other games to be getting the lions share of the cash. I want to see adventure type games we played on the Amiga to get AAA cash, or perhaps a Space Harrier remake. Don't you just feel that when a arcadey or adventure type game comes out they give you some half baked meat? Someone once said to me there will never be another Outrun!! I know what he means now. Its a state of the art game that was so ahead of its time that just had that magical element you can't describe. Could you say that about anything these days?

I want my types of games that I like to get state of the art graphics and sound. It used to be that way in the PS1 and even PS2 era. PS3 sucks balls (not the hardware). I just think to myself "put the same dedication into some game I really want to play instead of 3 iterations of the same BS I've played before".

Then I look at the sales of said types of games and they get poor sales. I think Japan has a lot to do with it. They didn't have a massive window before Western launch of the PS3 and they released bugger all in it anyway. I like quirky games that take skill. I don't like mainstream games. Except God of War, but even thats worn out its shelf life with me now.

As for handhelds, I can't get into small screen games. Sound and immersion play a big part in a game for me. Even if the best game came out on a handheld that I would give 10/10, id want it on a bigger screen with bigger sound and give in 20/10. I'm a bit OCD when it comes to compromise.. Which is why I come across as a bit of moaner.

I value all of your opinions even if I disagree with them. I'd like to produce a game one day. I'd like to show the world a Parodius super deluxe or Baron von blubba (did I spell that right?) in 1080p with all the bells and whistles. If I win the lotto i'll do it.. I swear. lol.

Games studios don't really think about what went before and how to make it better today. They just follow the gravy. Japanese studios would get lost in a lift at the moment. Sounds like they don't even know what women are for going by another thread.

[Skykid]

Even though I do enjoy playing through current gen 'premium' games - those ones that are considered excellent across the board (mainly FPS's) I do still get a gnawing sense of dissatisfaction once they're over. It's difficult to place, but I think it's because I know deep down I've just played another FPS. They're done well of coure, but also by the numbers to some degree.

Dig around though and you'll unearth 3D Dot Game Heroes and Dark/Demon Souls, and some gems that still have real magic from the Nintendo stable: S&P2 is stunning and I can't recommend Galaxy enough, it's all quality.
What disappoints me is when a game is meant to be something else - in the way Yakuza should be a similar experience to Shenmue - but fails to make the grade because after fifteen minutes of playing you realise it's been stuffed with pointless superficial crap in an attempt to be "current", and it just puts you to sleep.

[louisg]

In some ways I feel like little has changed, except that arcade games are now mostly dead. Those always seemed to offer the most replay value despite being much shorter than most made-for-console styles (e.g. beating your personal record). If I think back to games like NES Ninja Gaiden, Valis III or Out of This World, how much do they really offer after you beat it? Games like the Super Mario series with all their hidden areas, subtlety, and flawless execution have always been few and far in-between.

One thing that I think does make a difference is how games are designed now around save points. A lot of times games can feel unsatisfying if there's not a decent degree of skill involved to push past obstacles, or if the difficulty only comes in the form of a hard 5 minute segment placed right after a restore point. I find that, at the minimum, the concept of 'levels' is vital to make a fair game that contains a good difficulty curve and makes the player feel like what they do actually *matters* (as opposed to being swept along like a theme park ride). Immersion is way overrated.

[neorichieb1971]

I'm talking about immersion in the sense of how cinema can change the way you feel about a film. Not in the sense of game design trying to be cinematic.

Although if the game is moody like Silent hill 2 it helps in droves. Dead Space is another recent game that oozes immersion on the big screen and surround sound. Fear has a unique ability in games to make you feel "there".

In games like Uncharted, I don't feel fear.. I feel indestructible. Thats what gives the game a "I don't care" attitude when your playing through. Games mostly fall into this trap with me these days.

I do respect those games mentioned above by Skykid. But for some reason they don't appeal for other reasons. Blind buys are rarely gems for me.

[Skykid]

One thing that I think does make a difference is how games are designed now around save points. A lot of times games can feel unsatisfying if there's not a decent degree of skill involved to push past obstacles, or if the difficulty only comes in the form of a hard 5 minute segment placed right after a restore point. I find that, at the minimum, the concept of 'levels' is vital to make a fair game that contains a good difficulty curve and makes the player feel like what they do actually *matters* (as opposed to being swept along like a theme park ride).

Really good point, I think you've nailed something there dude.

[neorichieb1971]

I remember Onimusha having a 10 minute CGI clip in between a save point and a puzzle that was confusing as hell (water filled a room and you had to do a slide puzzle to unlock it). Everytime you died you had to go through the same cinemas again and again. What a terrible idea that was. I think Capcom have been guilty of it a few times actually.

The reason the save points generally exist is because they made an obstacle too hard in the first place. If you have less than 1 in 10 chance of accomplishing the task a save point is a nice touch. Personally, I don't think anything in a game should have less than a 1 in 4 chance if your a good gamer.

[Estebang]

Welp, Sony just shot themselves in the foot. The UMD-to-Vita transfer deal isn't leaving Japan. I'm sure they're trying to protect the market for physical PSP releases, but is there really anything left to protect here? UMD sales are practically nonexistent outside Japan, and everyone hates dealing with the clumsy little things. Or maybe they actually expect people to pay twice for the privilege of playing their games on a new system.

Thankfully, this won't affect me--I have no plans to get rid of my PSP and UMDs, and my Vita memory card will be filled up with Vita games and newly purchased PSP titles. But everyone absolutely has the right to be pissed about this.

[Skykid]

The transfer process isn't free, and the fee varies dramatically by title. Many full-price games command a fee of ¥1,000 ($13);

When I walk into the used game store all the PSP games are around £2 anyway, there's no way I'd pay additionally to transfer them over.

Not that I have any anyway. I think I only own around six UMD titles.

[GaijinPunch]

Waits for hack