Should i get back into Final Fantasy?

[dunpeal2064]

You think the entire franchise is crap Skykid? Most of the games are unrelated, Id be surprised if one couldnt find a single game in the series they at least slightly enjoyed.

Do you like the genre? I would agree that the series is overrated, but it seems to counter that, people give it more crap than it deservez.

Are we talking about Touhou, I forgot?

Almost.

I'm with Ruldra's series appraisal for the most part. I bought XII on many recommendations but I'm yet to fire it up and give it its dues.

I just find it's a series that has gradually become a way to waste large portions of your life. The characters are despicably generic; and in a game where you essentially repeat the same actions ad infinitum, that's a bit of a misfire.

Maybe it's because I don't care about crossplay, garbage plotlines or androgynous boys that FF has fallen out of favour. Honestly though, I just think it's more that it's become a poster example of degenerative gaming. What has the series actually done to break any new ground over the last twelve years?

Honestly, its hard to argue that they aren't just time dumps. There is very rarely any skill involved, and this applies to most rpgs (although not all). I definitely find it hard to play a game that is just requiring time, and not skill.

So, what you said makes much more sense to me. Sometimes its hard to tell if someone is just spouting nonsense, or if they actually have reasons for what they say. Final Fantasy being a poster child for time sink rpgs is a pretty fair statement, and they haven't really done much to change the genre. They just take the formula that they know is going to work for those that are already fans, and tweak it a bit.

See, if you would have loved a ton of other jrpgs, and then hated every Final Fantasy, I would find that odd. But, the genre just isn't all that appealing anymore.

Honestly, I think nostalgia is what makes me still enjoy these games. I didn't really know about chasing scores, and being an only child, a time sink was the best thing ever. Now, when I try to look at the games objectively, there is little that makes them really fantastic. Oddly, my favorite, VII, has some of the largest flaws.

[sjewkestheloon]

X was a funny one. I think that the realistic-ish character design coupled with the bad story made it particularly uncomfortable for a sane human being. On the subject of ffIV, the fact that the story is utterly idiotic with characters collapsing and rising more often than the drawers of a whore is somehow offset by the comic antics of the tiny sprites. It's more vaudeville than melodrama. I think that this is the genuine root of X's problems.

X-2, I completely disagree with you. In my opinion they took the material in the best direction for the most of it and then added some nonsense lookylikey crap as a cherry on the top. A rotten and putrid cherry filled with hatred. The gameplay though... Sublime. One of the best battle systems coupled with a suit ton of quests and some actual challenging fights. I rate this far higher than vanilla X.

XIII was a lot of plugging away with little payoff. It had some great battles but they were few and far between. The occasional need for strategy and lack of grinding was refreshing though, and I am going to check out the sequel at some point but it can wait until I have a gap and the price is way down.

[Skykid]

See, if you would have loved a ton of other jrpgs, and then hated every Final Fantasy, I would find that odd. But, the genre just isn't all that appealing anymore.

That would never happen. I used to enjoy playing RPG's when they were attractive games with charm - a prerequisite considering their storybook nature. In recent years I've failed to get through anything. Blue Dragon was structured terribly, which was disappointing because I liked the aesthetic. I enjoyed Dragon Quest IX for about four hours until I realised how formulaic and devoid of life it was, and gave up. Resonance of Fate was just disgusting, I couldn't deal with the character designs.
I was committed to giving FF: 4 Heroes of Light a good go, but I couldn't do more than about 2 hours. It looked nice but suffered from awful design/dungeon layout and felt buggy and unfinished.

I played through Chrono Trigger for the first time ever a few months ago since I missed it in its heyday, and thought it was superb.

X-2, I completely disagree with you.

Like I said, I played 25 minutes of it. That's was enough to know there's no way I can commit to playing through a game as an all female pop group screaming magic chants. No way Jose.

[Moniker]

I think in terms of gameplay, XIII was pretty decent. It's probably my favorite combat system.. and the voice acting was probably the best since they started having voice acting (not high praise - I think voice acting is killing the series). A lot of people complained about the linearity, which for me isn't really an issue as long as it's challenging, and a few fights aside, XIII wasn't challenging until post-game. That said, I did have quite a bit of fun with the post-game missions. The rest of the game was meh, story-wise and in every other respect. I may check out XIII-2 since it's supposed to address most of the original's weaknesses. I really wish Square would add difficulty levels. A game with XIII's combat with difficult fights would be worth playing even if the rest is rubbish.

[Ganelon]

Honestly, its hard to argue that they aren't just time dumps. There is very rarely any skill involved, and this applies to most rpgs (although not all). I definitely find it hard to play a game that is just requiring time, and not skill.

It's true that most RPGs don't require much skill to win but there are plenty of skill and intelligence-based factors can use to create an advantageous situation beyond what an average player can. The Dragon Quest scenario, where AFAIK, you have absolutely no choice but to grind levels, is the rare exception nowadays. Nearly all RPGs can be beaten more quickly or more easily with skill. Even FFIV, a game commonly used by the less knowledgeable to exemplify straightforward grinding has a few tricks that clearly separate the skilled from the unskilled. A skilled FFIV player can beat the game without even reaching level 20 (hint against many late bosses: learn Kain's jump timing).

Anyway, I used to be a big Final Fantasy fan. I was in just about every FF online community back in the turn of the millennium. But it became clear when FFIX was touted as a return to the classics—a claim I never really understood since although mechanics were simplified and more references were put in, the game didn't "feel" like a classic FF—and when FFX was starting to be revered that the series wasn't for me anymore. I do still buy the cardinal installments but I haven't been motivated to get past the first 15 minutes of any of any FF since, ports excepting. In fact, the last original RPG from Square that really captured my full interest was Xenogears from back in 1999. That seemed like just a few years ago but 13 years? Wow.

As for whether my disinterest is a matter of nostalgia or different style, I strongly believe in the latter. I still have fun with 16 and 32-bit RPGs every now and then. And as with Skykid, I still enjoy playing the remakes. FFT on PSP still made me want a sequel. I've actually grown more appreciation for FFVII over the years after all the other Compilation of FFVII games that seemed to miss the original's vision. For folks who have trouble accepting that, I'll have to point to my case example of Lunar. People who love the Lunar RPG series tend to appreciate the holistic atmosphere of the games based on visuals, music, setting, characters, and story. These people, myself included, don't care that much for mechanics, strong writing, challenge, unparalleled graphics, etc. Many folks don't understand Lunar and don't see how anyone could have fun with such simple games but they would be missing the point. It's better that these folks accept that different people have different interests.

Oh, and since this bump resurrected discussion about Sword of Mana, I have no plans to argue my point further. Again, opinions are opinions. But since we mentioned music, here's my favorite tune from the original Seiken (AKA Seiken Densetsu AKA Final Fantasy Gaiden AKA The Final Fantasy Adventure), perhaps one of the best uses of the GB's limited sound processor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjg751mFozI

[Elixir]

I actually reviewed XIII-2 recently. It's actually a pretty fun game.

[JBC]

I didn't even realize this was my thread. To answer your question, 2007 circuitface, No.

Final Fantasy is for lil' pussy boys

[Skykid]

I didn't even realize this was my thread. To answer your question, 2007 circuitface, No.

Final Fantasy is for lil' pussy boys

Ha ha, that's probably even more true now than it was in 2007.

[null1024]

"Hmmm...I'm level 50, but my attacks do only 150hp of damage yet my GFs do 9999 damage and take four minutes to animat...ah fuck."

This is one of many reasons why FF8 is the worst of the series.

fucking this
Like seriously, it's the only way I end up doing any damage to anything. I really have to be doing something extremely wrong here.
Also, the fact that I need to junction a GF for a party member to even use items is total bullshit.

I haven't finished any FF [and I've played 6 to 9], although it's more out of sheer not playing, rather than by being challenged by anything.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Cripes, you don't care 'bout 'em androgynous boys a lot across these boards.

[Phellan Wolf]

Maybe it is just me, dunno but the best in the series is chapter 6. Best FF ever with the best evil character ever made: Kefka. Damn I wish SE remakes it, using Amano's artset.
IMO FFXIII wasn't that bad, the combat system was pretty fun and when you arrived to Pal's Valley the grinding missions were enjoyable thoug one of the biggest defaults of the game was Vanille, damn she is just unbearable.
BD is for me the best rpg on the current gen even with its design flaws, but I am going to check out the new FF to see if it really solves FFXIII flaws but I am doubtfull about it, Vanille is back and Serahs looks like another shitty character.

[BulletMagnet]

Like seriously, it's the only way I end up doing any damage to anything. I really have to be doing something extremely wrong here.

It's been a long time since I played 8, but I recall being able to do a good deal more damage with my normal attacks if I had a decent stock of spells and junctioned them well (especially if an enemy had an elemental weakness or the like) - on my second playthrough I almost never used "summon" attacks. Granted, the game is still rather broken, but I had fun with it...then again, maybe it's because I spent so much time on Triple Triad.

[Skykid]

Vanille, damn she is just unbearable.

God, please don't mention her.

Please.

[ShmupSamurai]

I need to get back to Xenogears- I still haven't cleared the first disc yet.....

I'll take Xenogear's people/mecha fisticuffs system over FF over-bloated menu systems anyday.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Xenogears is not even playable in the sense FFs are. The only people who hold the former in high regard seem to be those who have never finished it, or did so in the last century.

[Ed Oscuro]

Square should release a sequel to Vagrant Story, and maybe another Parasite Eve

then shut down forever

That, sirs and madames (and femmes) is my unconsidered opinion. Mystic Quest and Secret of Evermore, though, those were the days.

[Ruldra]

Square should shut down forever.

Fixed. Current-gen Square should stay far away from Vagrant Story, they'd just ruin it. Just look at all the crap they did with FFVII.

Square was never the same after the merging with Enix.

[iconoclast]

Square should make a sequel to The Last Remnant before shutting down forever. That was easily their best game from the last decade or so. They probably should have put Final Fantasy somewhere in the title so more people would notice

[Skykid]

Cripes, you don't care 'bout 'em androgynous boys a lot across these boards.

Sorry if it hurts your feelings son, I get what you're about.

I do not mind, however, somewhat effeminate or androgynous designs, if done well.

[Taylor]

I have played and liked most of the Final Fantasy games, but the series is really losing its way. It seems Square saw that a lot of people were making their games more accessible for a casual audience and decided to follow suit, but when you game is already basic you do not need to do this.

FF12 was just dull because you set up some vaguely intelligent Gambits and you did not have to press a button for 99% of the game. The only counter I have heard to this argument is that I shouldn’t use Gambits in the first place and manually control everybody, i.e. the system is so bad the only way to make it good is to not use the system. However, this doesn’t really fly because one of the other cool mechanics in the game is the chaining system. If you kill an enemy of the same type the chain goes up and you get better loot or experience or whatever. This number gets into triple digits naturally in most dungeons - manually killing all that doesn’t sound too fun either.

I see the goal of the FF12 system. It was to create an MMO party dynamic where you can program your buddies to do whatever role you wanted, I think this is a really cool idea but the system was just so open you didn't have to try. In FF13 they kind of tried it again - this time you couldn’t alter the Gambits but you could switch between Square-defined ones the fly. Sounds good, right? Except some formations would be too easy and they wanted to make the combat as flashy as possible. So to facilitate this they added auto-battle and stagger (essentially a restriction on formations dressed up really well, thought it also requires massive health pools on enemies to work). This is also dull as 99% of the game is still automatic only now you have to press X repeatedly. There are a few stand-out bosses but most of the fights you can comfortably complete on the loo.

As a result of this FF12 and FF13 are the only two FF games I’ve brought and not finished (final dungeons on both), FF13 is the first one I traded in, and FF13-2 will also be the first one I do not buy. Though I’ve heard combat is even more simplistic than FF13 so I’m kind of curious how that has actually been achieved without violating some law of the universe.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Square should release a sequel to Vagrant Story, and maybe another Parasite Eve

Sequel to Threads of Fate and Cyber Org, more like. Kingdom Hearts was a tremendous step back in most basic areas compared to those two. Cyber Org even had a "modern", fully adjustable camera mapped onto the right thumbstick. Then they must've fired all the right guys and reunite with whoever designed the controls and camera for Xenogears.
Can't stop wondering how Square Enix ended up so clueless in the action adventure department after so many competent PSX games of said genre. Haven't played Kingdom Hearts 2, but if it's anything like Dawn of Mana, I'd rather come back to Brave Fencer Musashi.

[Hagane]

I was kind of fed up by X tbh. I played about half of the game and shelved it and then sold it. It was dull and monotonous. I spent about 25 minutes with X-2 before ditching it. I couldn't believe how bad.

You lasted more than me. Sat through the awful unskippable opening, then quickly ejected the disc on the first awful ATB battle.

IMO FFs in general are very very bad games. And story wise they are mostly on the level of shounen anime, so while they were a good read back when I was 12, now that I'm older and obsessed with arcade games I can't go back to them.

[Gus]

IMO FFs in general are very very bad games. And story wise they are mostly on the level of shounen anime, so while they were a good read back when I was 12, now that I'm older and obsessed with arcade games I can't go back to them.

Yeah, pretty much. Not a fan of the skill-free "battle systems" either.

[Friendly]

I didn't even realize this was my thread. To answer your question, 2007 circuitface, No.

Final Fantasy is for lil' pussy boys

This.

To elaborate, I tried "playing" (=pressing X repeatedly) FF XIII for about 45 minutes, and it almost gave me brain cancer.

[LtC]

They release FF game where you simply view battles and make strategic decisions on PS360. You don't even need more than few buttons in the whole game. Then they proceed to release FF game with fast paced action based battle system on a PSP. There's not enough buttons on the PSP and you have to use d-pad for camera controls.

Should've made type-0 a PS360 game and stick XIII on a 3DS, PSP or whatever. XIIIvs looks pretty interesting but who knows how that'll end up if it ever even is released.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Sat through the awful unskippable opening, then quickly ejected the disc on the first awful ATB battle.

There's no ATB in FFX. You have all the time in the word for decisions during battles. The real time "minigames" attacks are optional and nothing like ATB really.

[Estebang]

Yeah, ATB battles ended with IX before returning in altered form for XIII. XII's are best described as "MMO battles."

[Illyrian]

Skykid, you never got to the bit where you have to put on a pop show on the roof of your airship to cheer up Yuna's cousin, who wants to bang her btw. You also didn't see the bit in the ronso hotspring where rikku hits on Yuna and compares their breast sizes. OR the bit where you infiltrate Leblanc's base and while disguised as one of her soldiers have to make her cum by giving her a back massage then?

I soloed most of that game with yuna by using her aeon transformation and gibbing random bsttles to the point where i killed the final bosses in about 5 minutes.

Game was dumb as hell.

FF9 was seriously underrated by the way, it has th best story out of all of them and the only combat system that is better is the materia system.

[evil_ash_xero]

I haven't liked a FF, since 7.

I thought 8 sucked, and 9...it was alright. I didn't like X at all. Haven't bothered with them since. Too much focus on story. Yawn.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I've only finished the first FF for NES about 8 years ago. I honestly don't know why with all the grinding (I had a lot more free time back then in high school). I'm sure that I could never do it again even if for some reason I wanted to.

I missed VII back in the day. With all the hype it gets I've actually tried on 2-3 seperate occasions spanning multiple years to play it and see what's the big deal. I've still never even made it to the second disc. It's probably not ever going to click for me.