Let's Talk About Our Feelings: Scoring

[Nasirosuchus]

I only play for 1cc's. I only care about scoring so that I can get extends. Once I've gotten all of the possible extends that can be achieved by scoring, I stop worrying about it altogether.

The only game where I had any real concerns for my score beyond just getting extends was Gokujo Parodius because it was so easy to rack up points with those bells.

[Jeneki]

Here's something I recently bought: Metal Stoker (PC Engine)

It's an arena shmup with hovertanks. Your tank can morph into different forms with different weapons and special attacks; some are offensive, some are more defensive in nature. You can level up each form independently to customize your tactics. So there's a lot of different ways to tackle each section, which have varying terrain and a good variety of enemy types. It's really fun for a while, as I figure out the best combination of abilities to beat each section. After playing a few hours I make it to the end.

But there's no scoring in this game. At all (probably a good thing since there's a couple spots someone could milk forever). Now that I've made it to the end, I don't really feel compelled to play it again. There's nowhere for me to measure any further improvement, nor an "thinking outside the box" way of playing that gives more points. The replay value that would have been there is gone. So this HuCard is going back on the shelf for a while.

So personally, lack of advanced scoring won't stop me from playing a game once. But it will keep me from coming back to it again and again.

[finisherr]

Sorry, I thought you said advanced scoring techniques somewhere there. I guess I'm blind.

Well, the videos you posted didn't exactly explain anything. They were just videos of good runs.

[finisherr]

I guess I should make it clear that a big attraction to scoring to me is getting extends. I think I might even have a chance to 1CC more difficult games if I can get those extends.

Either way, STGs are super intense. When I have a satisfying run in any shooter I feel like I'm defeating all possible odds. Ha.

[Naut]

Sorry, I thought you said advanced scoring techniques somewhere there. I guess I'm blind.

Well, the videos you posted didn't exactly explain anything. They were just videos of good runs.

The Mushihimesama Futari Original run is commented by Sapz and explains most, if not all the advanced scoring techniques present. Sinmoon's Ketsuipachi run will be commentated as soon as Nereid transcribes my explanation of it. We unfortunately don't know much about the "advanced techniques" of AK Shin though so it might go uncommentated for a while.

[finisherr]

Sorry, I thought you said advanced scoring techniques somewhere there. I guess I'm blind.

Well, the videos you posted didn't exactly explain anything. They were just videos of good runs.

The Mushihimesama Futari Original run is commented by Sapz and explains most, if not all the advanced scoring techniques present. Sinmoon's Ketsuipachi run will be commentated as soon as Nereid transcribes my explanation of it. We unfortunately don't know much about the "advanced techniques" of AK Shin though so it might go uncommentated for a while.

Oh cool!

[Marc]

I like playing for score, but I'm kind of OCD and get annoyed when I can't get something down perfectly, and will sit for hours repeating a run from the first level over and over again. I also won't use practice modes, I guess because I grew up with 8-bit shooters where the whole goal was to get a little further with each go, so it's kind of conflicting with me, especially with Cave shooters. I can play any DDP:R for survival and be doing OK, but then the OCD kicks in if I fuck up on a chain, and I desperately want to start again, so I tend to end up stuck in a loop. And man, that game is a fuckhole to play for score.

I've got to say though, one thing that fucks me off about bullet-hell shooters in general is hitboxes. I remember as a four year old kid, first playing Super Cobra and Astrosmash on my Uncle's Intellivision, and he was the guy that advised me that, rather than staring at my ship and dodging the shit that was about to hit it, I should be watching the shit and keeping tabs on myself from the corner of my eye. Invaluable advice, up until hitboxes. Either make the entire ship vulnerable, or show the hitbox for fuck's sake! In my eyes, DDP isn't hard, but I still can't keep my eyes on the tiny little collection of vulnerable pixels, because there's nothing there for me to see as such. I love DDP, but I've put a lot more time into Ressurection, simply because that little glowing ball in the centre of my ship makes all the difference and I never feel cheated when I die - not always the case in DDP.

Mind, I've got glasses for a lazy eye and I've gone four years without an eye test...

And finally, can anyone link me to an impartial thread concering the differences between 1.5/Black Label for Ressurection?

[Gus]

I've got to say though, one thing that fucks me off about bullet-hell shooters in general is hitboxes. I remember as a four year old kid, first playing Super Cobra and Astrosmash on my Uncle's Intellivision, and he was the guy that advised me that, rather than staring at my ship and dodging the shit that was about to hit it, I should be watching the shit and keeping tabs on myself from the corner of my eye. Invaluable advice, up until hitboxes. Either make the entire ship vulnerable, or show the hitbox for fuck's sake! In my eyes, DDP isn't hard, but I still can't keep my eyes on the tiny little collection of vulnerable pixels, because there's nothing there for me to see as such. I love DDP, but I've put a lot more time into Ressurection, simply because that little glowing ball in the centre of my ship makes all the difference and I never feel cheated when I die - not always the case in DDP.

Heh. So I'm not the only one who has trouble with that shit.

[Erppo]

And finally, can anyone link me to an impartial thread concering the differences between 1.5/Black Label for Ressurection?

I don't think there is a good list like that but here's the rough version:

Both
-Hit count gives you a multiplier that's active under certain condition, maxes out at 10,000 hits. This is the main key for big scores.

1.5
-You get hits mainly by hitting enemy bullets with your hyper shot and enemy lasers with your hyper laser
-The multiplier is active at full hyper charge when not hypering
-Chain breaks easily when not hypering (except when the charge is not full)
-Two loops

Black Label
-The rank gauge and ability to shot+laser
-All non-popcorn enemies cancel their bullets when killed with the laser or shot+laser
-You get hits mainly by the cancels from destroying enemies, and the cancels by picking up bees
-The multiplier is active when the rank gauge is in the red zone
-Chain can only break during hypers (still pretty lenient timer)
-One loop

1.5 Scoring is mainly about getting a high hit count with minimal amount of hypers and then chaining, BL is mainly about milking stars by hyper canceling enemy bullets.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I have to be very carefull when it comes to scoring in difficult shmups, in the past I would start out with a 1CC in mind, then start playing for score and suffer from burn out as I had praticed scoring routes in individual stages but was unable to tie it all together in a run.

I think im personally better off avoiding in depth scoring guides to keep myself focused on the 1CC, and just find out basic knowledge I need for extends / weapon pwr ups. However it can be hard finding such information out without having to read a guide or watch spoiler videos.

I wish that CAVE would put scoring-lite modes in their console ports, something thats easy to understand for us 1CCers and we can move onto the original version when were ready. Its better than having to resort to novice modes to play for score which are too easy for intermediate players.

[Moniker]

I mostly try and score in levels I've more or less mastered, in order to keep it interesting. Levels 1 & 2 for most games, sometimes 3. Once I get up higher I tend to freak out and forget about it. The Raiden Fighters games are an exception, as I don't find scoring to be at odds with survival. Not too many games like that, now that I think on it.

Once I 1CC a game, though, I don't really feel the drive to keep playing for score. Maybe once I get more of them under my belt, or find a shmup I love enough to keep playing after completion. I imagine Garegga & Batrider will be that way, if/when I'm good enough at them.

I very much dislike practicing games vs. just playing them, unless it's a particularly nefarious boss I can't bomb through. Probably need to get over that if I want to actually get anywhere on a consistent basis.

[Marc]

And finally, can anyone link me to an impartial thread concering the differences between 1.5/Black Label for Ressurection?

I don't think there is a good list like that but here's the rough version:

Both
-Hit count gives you a multiplier that's active under certain condition, maxes out at 10,000 hits. This is the main key for big scores.

1.5
-You get hits mainly by hitting enemy bullets with your hyper shot and enemy lasers with your hyper laser
-The multiplier is active at full hyper charge when not hypering
-Chain breaks easily when not hypering (except when the charge is not full)
-Two loops

Black Label
-The rank gauge and ability to shot+laser
-All non-popcorn enemies cancel their bullets when killed with the laser or shot+laser
-You get hits mainly by the cancels from destroying enemies, and the cancels by picking up bees
-The multiplier is active when the rank gauge is in the red zone
-Chain can only break during hypers (still pretty lenient timer)
-One loop

1.5 Scoring is mainly about getting a high hit count with minimal amount of hypers and then chaining, BL is mainly about milking stars by hyper canceling enemy bullets.

Thanks for that man, now I have another question I hope some kind folk will help thicko out with.

I don't get the bit about not hypering? To give an example - which means I'll have to reveal some of my terrible scores - on stage 1 I normally hit my first hyper on the second/third tank, my second on the first big ship after the midboss (normal route - hidden makes me cry), and finish the stage with around 700mil and 2,000 chain (once, memorably, with almost 900mil, but I have no idea what I did differently on that go tbh). I tried using the first hyper only, put in pretty much the same performance, but without the added hits on my counter from the second wave of cancelling, only scored about 450mil. Is there a fundamental trick I'm missing here?

[Erppo]

Thanks for that man, now I have another question I hope some kind folk will help thicko out with.

I don't get the bit about not hypering? To give an example - which means I'll have to reveal some of my terrible scores - on stage 1 I normally hit my first hyper on the second/third tank, my second on the first big ship after the midboss (normal route - hidden makes me cry), and finish the stage with around 700mil and 2,000 chain (once, memorably, with almost 900mil, but I have no idea what I did differently on that go tbh). I tried using the first hyper only, put in pretty much the same performance, but without the added hits on my counter from the second wave of cancelling, only scored about 450mil. Is there a fundamental trick I'm missing here?

The fundamental trick of the stage are the three huge tanks in the start. Those are worth a ton so your scoring should be focused on raising the multiplier before them and killing them while it's active to get a huge boost to your chain value. With efficient laser aura charging, it's possible to use one hyper right in the start and return to full charge (and active multiplier) just before killing them. You will also need the hidden midboss if you want to score more, since you can use a second hyper at it to get your hits over 3000 for a bigger multiplier for the end chain.

The multiplier levels change at hit counts of 500, 1000, 3000, 5000, 7000, and 10000, ranging from 2x to 7x respectively.

[Ed Oscuro]

Playing some games like Air Gallet and Omega Fighter Special recently made me realize that I don't like games where the scoring gets in the way of the actual shootin' and dodgin' portion of the game. Of course, that was already true enough of any Toaplan style game with a powerup item cycle, but now add on a billion times more layers of crud and dandelions to grow and it gets rather obnoxious, not fun. Sorcer Striker / Mahou hasn't been grabbing me as much as it used to but at least it isn't falling prey to baroque scoring system encroachment syndrome.