Racketboy "Hidden Gem Shmups" Article - Input Needed!

[shadowbringer]

adding Bio Metal to my suggestion list (preferably the japanese version, which has better bgm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TBR2MQ87nI ); not sure if this is hidden enough, though; I'm not familiar with its sequels (which I haven't checked out, too :p). I'm surprised to see that Gynoug and SNES Macross made it into the list, as I like the games but didn't knew it would fit the criteria :p

Good luck to Eden's Aegis, Raiden Fighters Jet and Varth (and Crimzon Clover too, which didn't made up in the lists :p -- I'd like most newbies to the genre to experience the final two stages at least once; even getting to the 3rd boss would be an unforgettable enough memory). Though Varth is harder to learn how to enjoy, for new players, due to enemies coming from behind, "misaimed" (fixed angles) shots, no-sealable shots, wiggling for faster bomb regen and the default firerate making the game difficult imho (even though not unenjoyable).

I'd suggest Ether Vapor and Diadra Empty, if I liked them enough (and more importantly, if I have played them ). They look cool, but I'm not sure if they would be as fun to play, until I get to play them. (so, people who're familiar with these two could explain why they would be good enough -- they're already not well known enough among non-fans, it seems)

[Moniker]

Honestly you could put nearly the entire backlog of Irem shooters that aren't well known on this.

Any specific proposals from anyone, aside from the aforementioned Image Fight and X-Multiply?

Dragon Breed, Cosmic Cop/APU Gallop & Mystic Riders (already mentioned I think) are good choices. I don't know about their hidden-ness but they're very good.

As for doujins, if you're going to do them at all (probably unwise), you should stick to games that are both must-play, and wildly innovative. The only one that springs to mind is Warning Forever.. maybe Shoot1UP but I wouldn't force either one. For some reason ChoRenSha seems to really fit the spirit of the assignment, though.

As for whittling down... well, I still need to try most of them on there, but I support the inclusion of Varth, X-Multiply, Recca, and Space Bomber.

Is Coryoon the same as the Coryoon - Child of Dragon title on PCE? If so, I'd consider removing it. There's nothing it does that Dragon Breed doesn't do better and prettier. Magical Chase -- well, I guess it's the iconic cute'em up of the middle years. But it's much less hidden simply by virtue of the fact that it's famously rare, and therefore probably already at the top of everyone's rom list once they download a pce emulator. Eco Fighters is fun, but not really anything special, imo.

[Observer]

I'd suggest Ether Vapor and Diadra Empty, if I liked them enough (and more importantly, if I have played them ). They look cool, but I'm not sure if they would be as fun to play, until I get to play them. (so, people who're familiar with these two could explain why they would be good enough -- they're already not well known enough among non-fans, it seems)

Supporting Crimzon Clover. In fact, it should be a must. Outside of us, not many noticed it.

Now, about Ether Vapor: the remastered version fixed most of what bothered me about the game. You have to choose weapons with care to deal with some stuff and you need to adapt to the multiple perspectives. Overall, it's plain awesome. But I'm heavily biased because I love the whole mechs, missile barrages, big ships, lock-on guided laser missiles and such delicatessens.

About Diadra Empty: like I said many times before, it takes the idea of Fantasy Zone (free roaming across a horizontal battle arena/stage, a shop system where you purchase upgrades for your dragon at the end of every chapter) and pushes it further by adding some sort of rpgish level up system (which hands over bombs, and bombs in turn can be exchange for a special chaining aura to rack up insane combos), huge enemies and an overload of bullets and all sorts of crazy flying stuff. It combines all this with a highly customizable weapon system comprised of two weapons (main and sub, ranging from lasers and over the top missiles to "up close and personal" melée attacks) and options with several formation modes and powers (you have defensive options, offensive options, you can put them in front, have them rotate around you and such). It's also pretty long and the Extra Level, with its score requirements and inherent insanity, pushes thing even further. But, as you mentioned, I love it but many hate it. I still feel it's very underrated and hidden. Unlike Hellsinker, which at least got slightly more attention due to just how freaking insane it is.

Still, I would make a Hidden Doujin Gems article dedicated to them, seeing there are so many to name.

And I still support Einhander as a hidden gem. It is not perfect but, german taunts and stuff like that win for me. Games need more german, spanish and italian taunts.

[RNGmaster]

And I still support Einhander as a hidden gem. It is not perfect but, german taunts and stuff like that win for me. Games need more navajo and basque taunts.

fixed

obscure languages for the win

[BulletMagnet]

Would Crisis Force for the Famicom/NES count?

It's on the list, though I imagine that more people here would probably prefer the inclusion of Recca over it.

This thread lacks Allumers Mad Shark

Yes, it certainly does. (I'll add it to the "others" list, though, just in case.)

has Gazelles Air/Akuu Gallet been mentioned?

It has been, actually, though I forget to add it; I personally wouldn't call it a gem (more of a brief footnote in the genre's history, if anything), but I'll throw it on the secondary list as well, since I know it has its fans.

Could "Boogie Wings" fit here?

It tends to get a mixed reception here, but I'll throw it in.

adding Bio Metal to my suggestion list...I'm not familiar with its sequels

Looks like you beat Rob to it! By the way, what do you mean when you say "sequels"? I wasn't aware of any, though IIRC Athena put a "mini" version of it onto one of the Dezaemon titles.

Crimzon Clover too, which didn't made up in the lists

That's because it's a doujin (along with a few of the others you mentioned), and for the moment I'm keeping those separate from the current conversation. Though I am wondering why it didn't end up in the "others" list along with a handful of other doujins...well, I'll be reorganizing all that eventually anyways.

Dragon Breed, Cosmic Cop/APU Gallop

Hmm...Dragon Breed is an interesting choice, though one might argue that it's not technically a "pure" shmup...I'll add it to the top list anyway, though for now I'll keep Gallet on the bottom until it gets put through the wringer a bit more.

First post re-updated.

[Bananamatic]

I'm going to laugh if Psyvariar makes both "hidden gems" and "defining shmups"

[Obiwanshinobi]

Psyvariar doesn't seem hidden to me for:

- 2 is on Dreamcast
- from the PAL side of things, Complete Edition has to be the most affordable and common console shmup released in retail (though WarTech: Senko no Ronde - if it counts - comes close).

Yeah, I came up with Raiden III myself, but it does seem relatively hidden for such a big name. As for Psyvariar, people are still quite vocal about it, ten years down the line. Heck, Gradius III&IV are more obscure.

[J-Manic]

Would Crisis Force for the Famicom/NES count?

It's on the list, though I imagine that more people here would probably prefer the inclusion of Recca over it.

Yeah. Good point. I just figured it should be known to unknowning gamers out there since it possesses some of the best in-game graphics, as well as one of the best soundtracks in the console's library. Well, in my humble opinion it does.

[Bananamatic]

Psyvariar doesn't seem hidden to me for:

- 2 is on Dreamcast
- from the PAL side of things, Complete Edition has to be the most affordable and common console shmup released in retail (though WarTech: Senko no Ronde - if it counts - comes close).

Seeing how specific titles are mentioned, the first Psyvariar seems hidden enough to me - the scoreboards have less than 10 entries for both Medium Unit and Revision and it's less played than the second one despite being everywhere and costing pretty much nothing.
Hell, even Homura gets more attention.

[Zeron]

Hidden gem and obscure is not quite the same right?, atleast not according to me,,,


Maybe we need a obscure shooters article aswell

[Obiwanshinobi]

The "gem" part is, in every case, purely subjective. The "hidden" (pretty much synonymous with "obscure") part can be discussed with more objectivity.
Psyvariar is one of the first shmups I'd read about and tried out when I discovered that the genre's still alive. I have no doubt it's talked about more than Homura or Dragon Blaze. On my internet at least.
When I realised how hard Gradius V rocks and searched for other shups made in the last decade or so, these are names I found almost immediately: Shikigami no Shiro, Psyvariar, Zero Gunner 2, Cave, Touhou, Under Defeat, Ikaruga. That's just my story of course, but I don't think it was any coincidence.

[Zeron]

The "gem" part is, in every case, purely subjective. The "hidden" (pretty much synonymous with "obscure") part can be discussed with more objectivity.

True but when when I think about obscure shooters games like Rezon,Madshark,Arbalester,S.T.G,Twin Eagle,Eight Forces,Meta Fox,War of Aero(I doubt manyknow about this one) come to the mind not more "common" stuff like Psyvariar and I have to agree with the fellow mentioning IREM games outside of RTYPE and Imagefight no one seems to know or give a damn about their other games like FireBarrel.

[IseeThings]

Yeah I was just going to say Fire Barrel.

I don't think it's rarity and the fact that it wasn't properly emulated for many many years helped it's cause. People either have never heard of it / played it, and simply passed it off as a broken game in MAME. It's near enough perfect in current versions tho (there is some slight sprite distortion on the right edge cause by the interrupt firing a bit early)

Also the English version (Air Assault) isn't even dumped (despite there being one on location in London for many years)

It's not a bad shooter either, plenty of good fun, and some impressive visuals in places, definitely one that I'd consider a hidden gem.

[Hagane]

Rob's thread made me discover a few nice games I didn't know and I think deserve to be in your list: Game Tengoku / The Game Paradise, Rapid Hero and Thunder Dragon 2.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

A game I would suggest giving a mention, even if it's a brief one, is the Commodore 64 horizontal shmup Armalyte. At first glance, it's easy to dismiss it as just another Gradius clone for the C64, however its super weapon mechanic makes it feel unique and it plays quite differently from both Gradius and R-Type.

Considering the C64's limitations, the game runs amazingly well and features not only co-op but a set of 3 different super weapons you can switch between at any time, powered by a recharging special meter you can upgrade. Not only was it an impressive game technologically, from a gameplay standpoint the selectable-on-the-fly super weapons makes it feel quite ahead of its time, being arguably one of the best C64 shmups ever, if not the best.

[Herr Schatten]

Armalyte

Sorry, but that's really not 'hidden' at all. Everyone with a C64 has probably played it. (Personally, I also find the 'gem' aspect debatable. IMO, it has that nifty generator/battery mechanic and some technical wizardry, but that's pretty much it.)

[Kollision]

Rob's thread made me discover a few nice games I didn't know and I think deserve to be in your list: Game Tengoku / The Game Paradise

For a Psikyo expert like yourself Game Tengoku must be pure bliss!

[Rex Cavalier]

Hellsinker
Radio Zonde
Crimzon Clover
GwangeDash
Fraxy

Especially Fraxy since it's not well known even there

[BulletMagnet]

I'm going to laugh if Psyvariar makes both "hidden gems" and "defining shmups"

It probably won't make either, honestly, but I want to make sure every suggestion is at least put out there for everyone to peruse.

First post has been updated again: next time I stop in here I'll probably post a few more of my own suggestions, then try to narrow this whole thing down to something resembling a "final" roster.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Fuck, forgot about Seihou Shuusou Gyoku! one of the few non-Psikyo bullet hell shooters that actually has speed going for it too~
And since saucykobold likes it, I'll throw in Daioh just for the heck of it. (It does look like a cool take on Truxton.)

[J-Manic]

I love that Gaiares is on the list.

[Edmond Dantes]

Has the article been written yet?

Also I'm seconding Armed Police Unit Gallop/Cosmic Cop/whatever you call it.

[BulletMagnet]

Has the article been written yet?

At the moment I'm focusing on the "defining" article, as its list is pretty much nailed down at this point (last-minute suggestions being taken in that thread now!) - once that one is completed I'll be able to focus fully on this one, which will be more difficult to compile.

[TerminasluT]

Didint see anyone mention the first Alltynex for the FM-Towns. For me thats a real hidden gem.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Bumping to take back my earlier suggestion of Metal Black in favor of Syvalion. I don't even think anyone here likes that game, but it's actually pretty fun if you're in the right mindset.

[BulletMagnet]

We'd probably have to use a semi-loose interpretation of "shmup" to include that one, though...I haven't played it in awhile but I don't recall being particularly fond of it. Maybe I ought to give it another go at some point.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I think an easy, yet incredibly loose interpretation of Syvalion could be "Takumi arena shooter". As you know, your hitbox is enormous, so dodging is all but useless. Gameplay consists of you blowing a continuous stream of fire until you find a safespot to sit and let it recharge. Naturally, the randomly generated levels and invincible anti-air units help prevent a (relatively) straightforward gimmick from making the game dull and monotonous.

[Ed Oscuro]

I was about to bitch about the lack of Omega Fighter...then I looked at the beginning of the game list. The Special variant might be more worth looking over, though.

I didn't see Ryu Jin though. Big item = Bane's venom tank, but the come-down isn't as bad.

Is Coryoon the same as the Coryoon - Child of Dragon title on PCE? If so, I'd consider removing it. There's nothing it does that Dragon Breed doesn't do better and prettier.

I don't recall Dragon Breed having a score attack mode. I love both games, though. Dragon Breed is interesting but from what I played there wasn't enough going on with the interesting on-foot / flying concept, and controlling the dragon effectively was a bit of a pain.

[ASilver76]

I would suggest adding Exception to the list. It fits all the criteria: it's a doujin, it's almost unknown, the gameplay is unique, and it can even be played (in th exception conflict version), as a multiplayer challege game over the net. Plus there is both a PC and arcade version, though the arcade version seems to have only had a location test before being lost to the ages.