So has S-Video been abandoned?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Greg,

I was in the same boat as you just getting by with a Sony CRT-based 20" Trinitron TV monitor with a single S-Video input as my primary gaming monitor back in the mid-1990s. It was a bitch searching high & low to acquire a 1st-party official SCEA PSX S-Video cable but had to pony up $39.99 + tax for it back in the day. It was worth it in the end.

Upon scoring a brand new XRGB-2 upscan convertor, I had to break down and get some Japanese Scart cables for my favorite gaming consoles. Although they're not as common as the Euro Scart cables, they're still around to purchase. Just think of it as a "one time purchase" for your gaming consoles.

Once you get a sample taste of what gaming consoles have to offer via RGB cables, there's no going back to S-Video scheme/setup.

However, with getting a PS3 and realizing how shitty it looked on a CRT-based TV setup, I had to break down and get a proper HDTV + HDMI cable for gaming to look at it's best.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[greg]

Thanks. I just like the S-Video setup that I have with the set of switch boxes. It makes switching between consoles so easy without plugging and unplugging the cables, thus adding wear and tear on them. I'll have to look into the upscale converter. So I imagine that the S-video plugs into the converter, then from there RGB to the TV?

At another school I saw yet another HDTV that has S-vid input. I know they exist, so I won't give up. I won't be able to afford a TV for at least another month or so anyway.

[GaijinPunch]

Yeah, it's like you're saying "a Ford is better than a Yugo" and people go "Ford, pfff, go get a Ferrari".

Can't you dolts realize that the perfect, ideal solution often is NOT VIABLE?!

Perfect analogy dude. Seriously, the RGB broken record get's old. .

It North America, yes. He lives in Japan though. I'm giving him an amazingly cheap and EASY solution. Greg -- for the price those Wega's cost on YJ, you might as well try it. They cost less than a blow job!

[greg]

It North America, yes. He lives in Japan though. I'm giving him an amazingly cheap and EASY solution. Greg -- for the price those Wega's cost on YJ, you might as well try it. They cost less than a blow job!

I wouldn't know about the cost of BJs, but I do know that my wife is not keen on having two different televisions at our place. Right now we're spending the weekend at the in-laws' place. Both the big TV in the living room and the smaller one my mom has in her own room have S-video inputs. If BKD says that S-video looks great on an HDTV, then that's good enough for me. Plugging in the Genesis and PCE to the TV should be no problem, since they all have composite inputs anyway. My employment in April is still up in the air, and right now a prospect in Fuji City seems like it's a good way to go (despite the 4 magnitude earthquake there this morning). Once we spend our money on everything we'll need for the apartment (new washer, gas range, etc), then we'll get a TV.

[Friendly]

If BKD says that S-video looks great on an HDTV, then that's good enough for me.

Because he says it? He didn't even say "great", though. And it's not great; it's just better than composite. So you pick the opinion that suits your own and simply ignore all those knowledgeable people who have actually compared S-video and RGB and have all reached the same conclusion? And as numerous people here have stated, getting an RGB setup (=cables & upscaler or cables & CRT tv) is really quite simple, especially in Japan, and is the reasonable thing to do.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

One question remains, why do you even start a thread if you don't want to learn anything new? Yes, S-Video has been abandoned; it should never have been used instead of RGB by the TV electronics industry in the first place.

[Skykid]

It North America, yes. He lives in Japan though. I'm giving him an amazingly cheap and EASY solution. Greg -- for the price those Wega's cost on YJ, you might as well try it. They cost less than a blow job!

I wouldn't know about the cost of BJs

GP charges $10 standard, $20 without the rubber and $260 for a clean-up using an ESPrade flyer.

[burgerkingdiamond]

If BKD says that S-video looks great on an HDTV, then that's good enough for me.

Because he says it? He didn't even say "great", though. And it's not great; it's just better than composite. So you pick the opinion that suits your own and simply ignore all those knowledgeable people who have actually compared S-video and RGB and have all reached the same conclusion? And as numerous people here have stated, getting an RGB setup (=cables & upscaler or cables & CRT tv) is really quite simple, especially in Japan, and is the reasonable thing to do.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

One question remains, why do you even start a thread if you don't want to learn anything new? Yes, S-Video has been abandoned; it should never have been used instead of RGB by the TV electronics industry in the first place.

haha why are you so eager to convert him? I don't believe that his question was "is RGB better than s-video". He was asking whether new TVs had abandoned s-video.

[Friendly]

Helping people see the light

[shmuppyLove]

Helping people see the pixels

Fix'd

[Friendly]

Helping people see the pixels

Fix'd

Right, my mistake

[Strider77]

haha why are you so eager to convert him? I don't believe that his question was "is RGB better than s-video". He was asking whether new TVs had abandoned s-video.

And you know better

Honestly S-video is fine on a low deff TV. But I don't see why you'd shell out all that extra cash on a HDTV to feed it S-video. It's like buying a sports car to take your kids to school and soccer practice. Expensive and just the wrong tool for the job.

[Stormwatch]

It's not like RGB will do much better, because THE GODDAMN IMAGE IS LOW RES EITHER WAY. But at least it won't be composite's blurry mess.

Perhaps modern TVs should have a built-in scanline generator for when you want to plug old consoles.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Such a built-in scan line generation would add up extra costs during manufacturing and thus, higher MSRP for the consumer. Would it be beneficial for the average Joe or the hard-core console gamer? You bet.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[louisg]

Such a built-in scan line generation would add up extra costs during manufacturing and thus, higher MSRP for the consumer. Would it be beneficial for the average Joe or the hard-core console gamer? You bet.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Don't all these sets have some sort of serious DSP? Maybe some are generalized enough that the company could program it to do scanlines and a subtle blur. Of course, there's the original argument: why would they bother? :/

[greg]

Because he says it? He didn't even say "great", though. And it's not great; it's just better than composite. So you pick the opinion that suits your own and simply ignore all those knowledgeable people who have actually compared S-video and RGB and have all reached the same conclusion? And as numerous people here have stated, getting an RGB setup (=cables & upscaler or cables & CRT tv) is really quite simple, especially in Japan, and is the reasonable thing to do.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

One question remains, why do you even start a thread if you don't want to learn anything new? Yes, S-Video has been abandoned; it should never have been used instead of RGB by the TV electronics industry in the first place.

Dammit dude, why are you and half the people on this forum so annoying? Chillax. If I can play the games, I am happy. I have a friend who bought an HD TV that can be tated and such. I am not such a person. In the past, I have had friends who have TV sets specifically for tating games. I am not such a person. Until a year ago, I owned a house that was pre-wired for surround sound, but I never bothered to buy the extra speakers to make it happen. Are you like that one dude (Icycalm?) who would bitch a textwall about why Mushihimesama should never be played on a CRT TV a few years ago? Plenty of people on this thread have pointed out to you that converting to RGB costs money and can be a real pain in the ass. If I can just plug in my S-video cables from the get-go, then I have instant gaming. I have never once in this thread told anybody that I will never upgrade to RGB ever. What I don't want to do is have to shell out several thousand yen on new RGB cables for all my consoles before I can play them. I'm not even sure if I even kept my standard composite cables.

Let me spell it out: I just moved to Japan. I won't even get my first paycheck until a month from now. I'll be making half as much as I was in the USA. Our apartment provided by my employer turns out to be a total dump, so we will need to find a better place to live once I have a job secured starting in April (my employer fibbed a lot to get me to work for her...long story). Finding a new apartment in Japan is not like what you are probably used to. First you have to pay a couple months' worth of rent to equal a deposit to be paid up front, and you're lucky if you don't have to pay that same amount extra for "gratitude money." Secondly, apartments here are bare bones. You need to have your own microwave (already got that), stove range, refrigerator, and clothes washer. If and when after all this I can afford to buy a TV, it would be real convenient if I don't have to chase down a bunch of fucking RGB cables just to relax and play some Saturn Bomberman or whatever. I hope this adequately puts my situation into perspective for you, so please stop being butthurt because I'm not just like you. Can't you just live up to your name and be "friendly," Friendly?

haha why are you so eager to convert him? I don't believe that his question was "is RGB better than s-video". He was asking whether new TVs had abandoned s-video.

Thanks for understanding me.

It's not like RGB will do much better, because THE GODDAMN IMAGE IS LOW RES EITHER WAY. But at least it won't be composite's blurry mess.

Thanks. I really have no idea if RGB cables on these consoles would even look better than S-video on a CRT TV like GP and Rancor have suggested getting, but I kind doubt it would be significantly better.

EDIT: missed something worth replying to:

Honestly S-video is fine on a low deff TV. But I don't see why you'd shell out all that extra cash on a HDTV to feed it S-video. It's like buying a sports car to take your kids to school and soccer practice. Expensive and just the wrong tool for the job.

If I am to ever get a 360 or something, I will definitely get the proper HD cables to enjoy the full experience. For retro consoles though, I don't see the point of getting RGB cables. At least not right away.

[Friendly]

Relax, I only wanted the best for you. I understand that starting a new life in Japan isn't easy. Good luck with that.
I'm sure that eventually you'll see the light, erm, pixels

[GaijinPunch]

Thanks. I really have no idea if RGB cables on these consoles would even look better than S-video on a CRT TV like GP and Rancor have suggested getting, but I kind doubt it would be significantly better.

It is amazingly apparent even after a single play. Why do you think people to to such pain-staking efforts to get an RGB setup? Is it really that much better? Yes... hell fucking yes. Stormwatch is either daft, or was being sarcastic w/ the "low res" comment, or he's assuming you will only run this stuff on an HDTV. If you do indeed intend to run them only on flat screen, buck up and get an XRGB or similar and save most of the quality.

As for the wfiey not being keen on 2 TVs in the house... as the only person here that can comment with experience, I'll let you know that the older you get, the fewer freedoms you're going to get. No matter how cool your wife is, she's from a culture which states that she's the boss in the house. That's going to come out at least a bit (and maybe a lot) as age kicks in. YMMV, of course, but I try to tell my friends to get into the practice to sticking to their guns early on.

[Friendly]

Not an expert on Japanese marriage, but I've been to Japan many times and even worked in Tokyo for a year (in a Japanese company no less). I can tell you one thing: I would never have married a Japanese woman. Real life is not some animu fanatsy.

[Stormwatch]

Come on, seriously:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 74#p543274

Will RGB will give you a sharper image, with more precise colors, and better contrast? Sure. But it's subtle, not the night-and-day difference of composite versus S-Video. When you consider that it's not hard to find some old TV with S-Video, or even getting a converter, versus modding each of your consoles to make them RGB (hard to do by yourself, expensive to hire someone to do, risky to accidentally the whole thing)...

Again, it's like "why do people buy Fords when they could buy Ferraris" - there is a cost, may be worth it for you but not for everyone.

[Friendly]

You are getting a bit desperate, chanting this Ford/Ferrari mantra. It's simply incorrect, and makes you look dumb. RGB does not cost 20-30x as much as S-video. In both cases, you need one cable per console, and you need an upscaler.
NB, those screenshots are awful. That's not how s-video and RGB really look.

[Stormwatch]

For some consoles, sure, it's just a matter of getting a cable. But for others, you'd need to mod, if it's possible at all. Then it's a significant cost, and being worth it or not is a matter of personal priorities.

[Friendly]

For some consoles, sure, it's just a matter of getting a cable. But for others, you'd need to mod, if it's possible at all. Then it's a significant cost, and being worth it or not is a matter of personal priorities.

Those consoles that don't support RGB don't support S-video either (Famicom, PC Engine), so if you wanted them to output S-video, you'd have to mod them anyway. Your point being?

[Kiken]

Greg, just ignore Friendly et al for the time being. You can get into the nitty-gritty of display outputs later on. As for now, check the manufacturers of the HD-TVs that you saw that had S-Video inputs. Certain manufacturers still support the format, others don't. Also, at this point, I'd say you're more likely to find them on smaller sets (somewhere between 20 and 32 inches). I'd assume that you're going after something on the smaller side of things, plus, if you get one with a VGA input, it can double as your computer monitor (don't know what you're running at the moment). Good luck with your new apartment.

One small caveat: be prepared to spend some time calibrating your new HD-TV once you get it out of the box. The factory defaults on pretty much every HD set are awful. As has been mentioned in other threads, make sure to use the TV's Game Mode as well as turning off as much post processing as possible (including stuff like motion interpolation).

[neorichieb1971]

I upgraded my TV a few years ago not realizing it had no svideo socket (my old one does).

And I tell you, I pulled out my N64, put the svideo cable in and tried to find the socket on my TV. I was like "God damn" my TV doesn't have the socket . I lol'd quite a lot in a shocked and disappointed fashion.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Let's just say on the higher-end HDTVs, S-Video input will still be there. Just check to make sure if you're buying a new HDTV, of course.

When I bought my last HDTV, I made sure that it had the obligatory S-Video input, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten it.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Stormwatch]

Those consoles that don't support RGB don't support S-video either (Famicom, PC Engine), so if you wanted them to output S-video, you'd have to mod them anyway. Your point being?

The Gamecube: only NTSC consoles support S-Video, only PAL consoles support RGB SCART, and only the DOL-001 models support component and D-Terminal.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Luckily Wii PAL (can be easily softmodded to support other regions) outputs RGB and component signal (and every 'Cube game can be played prog-scanned on it). So after TWO generations of lagging behind the competition Nintendo did the SDTV console thingy right again.
Oh yes, I'm under impression that PAL 'Cube games sporting 60 Hz option output PAL colour in both modes (unlike the PS2 which is either 50 Hz PAL or 60 Hz NTSC). This would make the likes of F-Zero GX PAL played on Wii in 480p the ultimate versions as far as SDTV gets (emulation on the PC gives you higher resolutions and pretty good compatibility, though).

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Those consoles that don't support RGB don't support S-video either (Famicom, PC Engine), so if you wanted them to output S-video, you'd have to mod them anyway. Your point being?

The Gamecube: only NTSC consoles support S-Video, only PAL consoles support RGB SCART, and only the DOL-001 models support component and D-Terminal.

And let's not forget that a GCN D-Terminal cable can be further modded to output in Scart/JPN 21-pin RGB or even VGA if so desired.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[GaijinPunch]

Will RGB will give you a sharper image, with more precise colors, and better contrast? Sure. But it's subtle, not the night-and-day difference of composite versus S-Video.

As someone who has used all three, the jump to RGB from S-Video is larger than Composite if you have the right display.