I think we can do a little better than just short circuiting our minds with the word "nostalgia," here. One hears the false but ever hip whispers of "OMMM, all is oneeeee, things never changeeeee" there...
TNG isn't as highbrow as one would like, but its best episodes (and there's a lot of them) are like well-written, philosophically flavored short stories. They don't have too many stupid "action" plots like later Trek, and they use the episodic feature as a strength, just as DS9--really the counterpunch reaction to TNG in so many ways--used narrative arcs to its strength. It helped that TNG had the best actors of the
franchise. Yes, S1 is considerably weaker (Tasha Yar, Wesley ex Machina, Ferengis, other schmaltz) but its really amazing how much they tuned things up by mid Season 2. And of course the show couldn't help but partly devolve into middling character drama by the 6th or 7th season.
IMO, the biggest flaw with TNG is that the episodic nature of the show and its inherent optimism in human progress (really, can you think of a show that more earnestly tries to depicts the values of a socalistic society?) obscures what we now rightly expect in terms of psychological evolution to characters. This is a common problem in shows of the time, where characters endure every kind of torture, loss, and tragedy, and yet are chipper as ever next week, back on the job! A sentimental and preordained "downfall" in character drama now infects much of recent TV, imo, but TNG just ignores it almost completely. When they do reconnect with events in the past its satisfying (Picard's music episode with the science officer), but too rare and disconnected.
DS9 is a whole other topic, and I actually prefer it to Babylon 5 since B5 became "pure action" and military staging suddenly and unfortunately, whereas DS9 could mix character development and flavor episodes into its narrative arc. DS9 still has the same flaw above (witness the "O'brien must suffer" episodes, from which he always springs right back from), but not quite as bad as TNG.
TOS, Voyager, and Enterprise are intellectual garbage and deserve their scorn. TOS at least has the naivete of a certain time of history on its side, while Voyager and Enterprise are merely commercial continuances of the franchise.
Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
Great post, but how did you vote, and will you be investing in the box set? 
By the way, I use the term nostalgia honestly here. I can't watch TNG without thinking back to the old days. Seems quite fitting in that sense.
Edit: Oh, only just noticed you could vote for more than one show. Added a tick next to TNG, even if purely for nosta... things that remind me of what I enjoyed about watching it when I was younger, and the world was a happier place.
By the way, I use the term nostalgia honestly here. I can't watch TNG without thinking back to the old days. Seems quite fitting in that sense.
Edit: Oh, only just noticed you could vote for more than one show. Added a tick next to TNG, even if purely for nosta... things that remind me of what I enjoyed about watching it when I was younger, and the world was a happier place.
Last edited by RGC on Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
Haha, I voted TNG and DS9, of course 
I'll probably get the box set, but more out of a satisfaction of curiosity than expecting an enhanced experience. I agree with the sentiment expressed above that remasterings can alter the original directorial intent, particularly with respect to lighting and color and their corresponding effect on atmosphere/mood. Clinical and precise ARE decisions of import, not just somehow "objectively" better; these are subtle things, but important in my opinion. It would be interesting to learn more about how remastering engineers attempt to compensate or capture the original essence of a work--I honestly don't know much about it.
TNG is very nostalgic for me too, though that nostalgia is tied into many things unrelated to the show (a specific room, a specific carpet, a specific time...). The "nostalgia" shutdown meme has spread like wildfire in the last 5 years and discussion is all the worse for it.
I'll probably get the box set, but more out of a satisfaction of curiosity than expecting an enhanced experience. I agree with the sentiment expressed above that remasterings can alter the original directorial intent, particularly with respect to lighting and color and their corresponding effect on atmosphere/mood. Clinical and precise ARE decisions of import, not just somehow "objectively" better; these are subtle things, but important in my opinion. It would be interesting to learn more about how remastering engineers attempt to compensate or capture the original essence of a work--I honestly don't know much about it.
TNG is very nostalgic for me too, though that nostalgia is tied into many things unrelated to the show (a specific room, a specific carpet, a specific time...). The "nostalgia" shutdown meme has spread like wildfire in the last 5 years and discussion is all the worse for it.
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
My main problem with TNG is that everyone on the Enterprise is totally goody two shoes. There are hardly ever any negative human emotions or vices. Humans basically aren't human anymore.
The main problem with Star Trek in general is that the new economy makes no sense: Is there unlimited energy or isn't there, can energy be reconfigured into any form of matter or can't it? If the answer is yes, and it should be yes because they use fusion reactors and have "replicators", then why would anyone waste time trading (on an interstellar level, no less)? By extension, if you have matter-energy conversion and can thus beam people and things around, why would there be star ships? All you would need is a network of relay stations to beam across large distances. They say the motivation of people in the 24th century no longer is the pursuit of monetary wealth, because money no longer exists. Instead people try to better themselves. Of course that is nonesense, given that most humans are lazy morons who only care about trivial things and instant gratification and who don't seek knowledge at all (or are allergic to it). Unless of course there was some incredible event that considerably boosted humanities average intelligence and also eliminated most archaic human traits such as intolerance, greed, laziness, vengefulness, envy and so on just before Star Trek takes place.
However, if you just ignore this, then TNG is fun, and many of the episodes are enjoyable, even after 25 years. Also, Patrick Steward is awesome, and what's not to like about Brent Spiner's character Data? On a sidenote, too bad the TNG movies sucked so much; especially the last one (Nemesis), which was directed by some guy who had never watched a single episode of TNG before.
The main problem with Star Trek in general is that the new economy makes no sense: Is there unlimited energy or isn't there, can energy be reconfigured into any form of matter or can't it? If the answer is yes, and it should be yes because they use fusion reactors and have "replicators", then why would anyone waste time trading (on an interstellar level, no less)? By extension, if you have matter-energy conversion and can thus beam people and things around, why would there be star ships? All you would need is a network of relay stations to beam across large distances. They say the motivation of people in the 24th century no longer is the pursuit of monetary wealth, because money no longer exists. Instead people try to better themselves. Of course that is nonesense, given that most humans are lazy morons who only care about trivial things and instant gratification and who don't seek knowledge at all (or are allergic to it). Unless of course there was some incredible event that considerably boosted humanities average intelligence and also eliminated most archaic human traits such as intolerance, greed, laziness, vengefulness, envy and so on just before Star Trek takes place.
However, if you just ignore this, then TNG is fun, and many of the episodes are enjoyable, even after 25 years. Also, Patrick Steward is awesome, and what's not to like about Brent Spiner's character Data? On a sidenote, too bad the TNG movies sucked so much; especially the last one (Nemesis), which was directed by some guy who had never watched a single episode of TNG before.
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
This alone should keep GP from investing any time watching TNG. After being sack-coddled by a much grittier BSG for several seasons, choking down some tragically positive TNG would be very difficult.blackoak wrote:IMO, the biggest flaw with TNG is that the episodic nature of the show and its inherent optimism in human progress (really, can you think of a show that more earnestly tries to depicts the values of a socalistic society?) obscures what we now rightly expect in terms of psychological evolution to characters.
Breaking news: Dodonpachi Developer Cave Releases Hello Kitty Game
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
Yeah, and DS9 was largely a reaction to that criticism of "too good" characters.
I think saying that TNG's characters are inhuman because they aren't gritty or gripped by the emotions we experience as part of our world today is dismissive and a little shallow. Inherent in this criticism is a deep, and I would say unstudied, cynicism about "human nature" and its allegedly unchanging verities.
Its not as if the characters don't have recognizably human emotions, but its true that they are portrayed as being evolved humans. Is it that farfetched to imagine that absent a variety of negative and limiting social factors, attributes like creativity, noble curiosity, goodwill, and sublimated ambition would manifest in the way they do for TNG characters? I don't think its nonsense that people will one day be free of the extremely limiting externalities of modern capitalism. Who knows what will bloom, but why is "realism" always negative?
The lynchpin of all the Star Trek universe, as noted, is some elusive free energy (or something incredibly efficient approaching it). I think there are a lot of unexplored aspects of that universe, open to criticism of course, and I think Star Trek wanted more to portray the established harmony of certain ideals rather than the process of their establishment. That's a limited perspective, but it also allows for a show that can focus unabashedly on so many positive sides of this supposedly intractable "human nature," which imo really accounts for the show's resonance with people.
Its kind of sad that all the acclaimed TV and movies today deal exclusively with the dark, gritty, and vulgar. The deeper problem for our culture is that this subtly reinforces the idea: THIS IS REALITY--a trenchant affirmation of the status quo in spite of being so many cries of protest. I like that TNG is radical enough to offer an alternative to that, even if its done in a somewhat unanalyzed and suggestive fashion. Its successor in art will one day come, though.
I think saying that TNG's characters are inhuman because they aren't gritty or gripped by the emotions we experience as part of our world today is dismissive and a little shallow. Inherent in this criticism is a deep, and I would say unstudied, cynicism about "human nature" and its allegedly unchanging verities.
Its not as if the characters don't have recognizably human emotions, but its true that they are portrayed as being evolved humans. Is it that farfetched to imagine that absent a variety of negative and limiting social factors, attributes like creativity, noble curiosity, goodwill, and sublimated ambition would manifest in the way they do for TNG characters? I don't think its nonsense that people will one day be free of the extremely limiting externalities of modern capitalism. Who knows what will bloom, but why is "realism" always negative?
The lynchpin of all the Star Trek universe, as noted, is some elusive free energy (or something incredibly efficient approaching it). I think there are a lot of unexplored aspects of that universe, open to criticism of course, and I think Star Trek wanted more to portray the established harmony of certain ideals rather than the process of their establishment. That's a limited perspective, but it also allows for a show that can focus unabashedly on so many positive sides of this supposedly intractable "human nature," which imo really accounts for the show's resonance with people.
Its kind of sad that all the acclaimed TV and movies today deal exclusively with the dark, gritty, and vulgar. The deeper problem for our culture is that this subtly reinforces the idea: THIS IS REALITY--a trenchant affirmation of the status quo in spite of being so many cries of protest. I like that TNG is radical enough to offer an alternative to that, even if its done in a somewhat unanalyzed and suggestive fashion. Its successor in art will one day come, though.
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
Oh, don't get me wrong, I enjoy Star Trek's benevolent human society, it's a nice contrast to other TV fiction. But let's be real, nothing like that will come about in 300 years from now. Human nature can't change that quickly, and for now, greed rules all. Take Star Trek for what it is, a modern fairy tale.
Oh, and not all is well in Star Trek's utopian federation society either. Who runs Star Fleet? Who elects the people in power? Who makes Star Fleet policy and decides if there should be interplanetary war or peace? Of course the people who created Star Trek must realize this gigantic plot-hole, too, which is why they simply ignore it.
Oh, and not all is well in Star Trek's utopian federation society either. Who runs Star Fleet? Who elects the people in power? Who makes Star Fleet policy and decides if there should be interplanetary war or peace? Of course the people who created Star Trek must realize this gigantic plot-hole, too, which is why they simply ignore it.
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
How old are you GP? I just turned 35 this week.Holy shit balls -- someone here is older than me besides PaCrappa (who has abandoned us? bastard)? Miss BSG, and I didn't even watch it until it was done. Woe is me.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
Years ago I realized the main problem with Star Trek's world is that it assumes that centuries from now, people will essentially have decided not to do anything to evolve, and nothing out there really can do anything about it. No drugs to put people in line, no robotic or computer augmentations (Borg = BAD!), but we still have prison. None of the technologies shown fit together in any rational sense, except as tools to make a "modern day people, but nicer" able to go out and have adventures in the stars. It's kind of like how people used to think you had to portray gay people on TeeVee...like normal people, but nicer.
The next quarter century will basically be the end of credibility for this world view, I think, though I like the idea of a fairly non-compulsory world order (even if that sounds like an obvious contradiction).
The Doctor from DS9 dances around this problem a bit, but it's not a very satisfying resolution.
By the way, I was thinking of the episode I know the profile pic is from (Picard lives out the memories of a man from long ago, and blows a flute), and it was pretty good.
The next quarter century will basically be the end of credibility for this world view, I think, though I like the idea of a fairly non-compulsory world order (even if that sounds like an obvious contradiction).
The Doctor from DS9 dances around this problem a bit, but it's not a very satisfying resolution.
you're gonna put on these fucking glassesRaytrace wrote:I have to say, much as I do like TNG, one has to listen to any man who's avatar is They Live!
hahahah the Reginald Barclay one made be finally give up
By the way, I was thinking of the episode I know the profile pic is from (Picard lives out the memories of a man from long ago, and blows a flute), and it was pretty good.
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
And it's also one of the first 3 episodes to be HD-ified. Which is shown in the promotional video I linked to. Which you didn't even bother to watch. Hahah.Ed Oscuro wrote: By the way, I was thinking of the episode I know the profile pic is from (Picard lives out the memories of a man from long ago, and blows a flute), and it was pretty good.
Anway, I can enjoy Star Trek just fine. Just don't think about the society and technology, and you'll have fun.
Last edited by Friendly on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
The deductive logic is strong in this one! 
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
Doctor Who >> Star Trek; even though Doctor Who has more worthless episodes than all series of TV ever combined. Just sayin'.
SHMUP sale page.Randorama wrote:ban CMoon for being a closet Jerry Falwell cockmonster/Ann Coulter fan, Nijska a bronie (ack! The horror!), and Ed Oscuro being unable to post 100-word arguments without writing 3-pages posts.
Eugenics: you know it's right!
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
I would argue (even if I had to argue with Keiji Haino or whoever the hell that is in your avatar) that TOS has some genuinely good science fiction stories that are executed fairly well. Not gonna argue for some complete package, or that it or any other sci-fi TV series has ever actually been fully redeemable, but there are moments in TOS where the universe doesn't feel like standard pre-packaged TV nonsense, and this is where naivete might be considered both a plus and a minus.blackoak wrote: TOS, Voyager, and Enterprise are intellectual garbage and deserve their scorn. TOS at least has the naivete of a certain time of history on its side, while Voyager and Enterprise are merely commercial continuances of the franchise.
Honestly, this could be argued from so many directions, and my beer says it's not worth making the effort, but if we're talking quality, you have to talk about whether you like that period of TV (nothing to do with sci-fi), if we're talking sci-fi, you have to consider where -you- were at when you experienced TNG (I was already a super-jaded sci-fi geek, so for me TNG fell flat), if we're talking story and characters--well, that's personal. I really didn't like most of the cast/characters of TNG. Some people say the same thing about TOS or other series. Each of these are there own discussions. This is where my beer has drawn the line and says I need to stop talking about goddamn star trek.
SHMUP sale page.Randorama wrote:ban CMoon for being a closet Jerry Falwell cockmonster/Ann Coulter fan, Nijska a bronie (ack! The horror!), and Ed Oscuro being unable to post 100-word arguments without writing 3-pages posts.
Eugenics: you know it's right!
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
That reminds me of the interminable retrogaming discussions about "HAZ X GAME AGED WELL?!"
-
TransatlanticFoe
- Posts: 1869
- Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:06 pm
- Location: UK
Re: Star Trek TNG Is Coming to Blu Ray
TNG had a shaky start but grew (holodeck malfunctions and Riker's burning loins aside) superbly.
DS9 took off badly but found its way into a strong story arc which ultimately had the limpest of limp endings (at least Babylon 5 got its main arcs out of the way before its embarrassing season 5). Voyager had Captain "ask questions repeatedly until shooting later... oh bugger weapons are offline now" Janeway and her namby-pamby crew of pant-wetting imbeciles. Enterprise started off shockingly dreadful (the Captain's dog being sexually frustrated as a plotline being a personal WTF favourite) but actually got pretty awesome with a coherent story arc before finally being cancelled.
TNG was the only one with any consistency. For all the ground broken by the original series, a few of the movies improved on it dramatically and it doesn't really stand the test of time. TNG on the other hand, once you get out of its teething problems (the second episode where everyone gets very horny indeed, for example), gave us some of the most memorable characters in sci-fi: the Borg and Q.
DS9 took off badly but found its way into a strong story arc which ultimately had the limpest of limp endings (at least Babylon 5 got its main arcs out of the way before its embarrassing season 5). Voyager had Captain "ask questions repeatedly until shooting later... oh bugger weapons are offline now" Janeway and her namby-pamby crew of pant-wetting imbeciles. Enterprise started off shockingly dreadful (the Captain's dog being sexually frustrated as a plotline being a personal WTF favourite) but actually got pretty awesome with a coherent story arc before finally being cancelled.
TNG was the only one with any consistency. For all the ground broken by the original series, a few of the movies improved on it dramatically and it doesn't really stand the test of time. TNG on the other hand, once you get out of its teething problems (the second episode where everyone gets very horny indeed, for example), gave us some of the most memorable characters in sci-fi: the Borg and Q.