Fixeight

[blackoak]

I never see people talk about this game (and then almost always negatively), so I thought I'd start a thread. I was talking about it a bit with Dave_K at the Bay Area shmupmeet last weekend, but I think its a great Toaplan game. I wonder why its always talked about as "less" than Outzone? I think its way, way easier compared to Outzone, for sure--especially if you use the best of the 8 characters. I think its particularly suited for new players, though, as I've almost finished a 1cc with a friend who has very little shmup experience. He is loving it.

Omitting the energy tanks from Outzone gives it a much more relaxed feel, too. Albeit "relaxed" is not something most shmup devotees seem to value...

The art style seems to get a lot of shit, but I don't know what people are talking about. The pastel palette gives the game distinction, and its done in a coherent way that I don't find gaudy or flashy.

So, is it just the relative ease of it that turns off Toaplan lovers? Maybe the level design is less tight? Or has it just not been played by many? I've heard the boot has inferior sound... I've been playing it on an original PCB.

I look forward to reading about in Shooting Gameside next month... by far, the most interesting thing to me about that magazine (interviews aside) is the actual Japanese arcade players' "historical" perspective on games.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

What? People actually hate FixEight?

Huh.

[Ruldra]

AFAIK the game isn't properly emulated in MAME and the emulated version there is very unforgiving (you have much less time to finish the levels), which might explain its bad reputation here.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

*

[blackoak]

I don't know if people "hate" it, but there is only one review praising it online (the hardcoregaming one) and almost every mention of it on a discussion board, including here, is negative.

[Skykid]

I don't think anyone hates it, they just generally reckon it's inferior to Outzone, which it is.

[Despatche]

I'd like to hear how. I don't like the idea of removing the energy bar and replacing it with a silent timer (which also means exploits, which there are), but if that one thing really calls for "inferior"... you may be "overdoing it a little", so to speak. People also talk about Fixeight being more "cramped" but I'm not really seeing it nor am I seeing how it could be an issue. Then, the game has a lot of variety in characters, as well as three-player support and built in autofire. Good game, worth the wait for proper emulation, I like it better than Out Zone at times, etc etc.

@blackoak: Do you have a Japanese PCB?

[saucykobold]

I think its way, way easier compared to Outzone, for sure--especially if you use the best of the 8 characters.

Huh, I've actually had the opposite experience. Enemy bullets in Fixeight will become incredibly fast if you clear several stages on one life. Also, there's no Super Ball that will allow you to steamroll through the game.

[blackoak]

@blackoak: Do you have a Japanese PCB?

I bought it recently, and it was advertised as the "Europe" version. The dip switches seem to allow for changing the region, but are there inherent difference between the Japanese/European PCBs? I can't really find anything about it online.

[blackoak]

By the way, has anyone tried it in 3 player mode? Were there dedicated cabs for this game?

[Despatche]

The various Asian versions have an additional Japanese subtitle on the title screen, and these versions should all be harder. I'm not sure if the dipswitch settings cause the same effect.

[blackoak]

I'll have to try it out, but that makes a lot of sense. I do enjoy the pacing right now (feels like a "beginner" shmup) and its particularly fun to play with friends new to the genre. When I tried to introduce the same people to Outzone, they found it too difficult.

[Skykid]

I'd like to hear how. I don't like the idea of removing the energy bar and replacing it with a silent timer (which also means exploits, which there are), but if that one thing really calls for "inferior"... you may be "overdoing it a little", so to speak.

It's not as fast, frantic or fun. The weapons aren't as enjoyable, the music's not as good, the aesthetic isn't as nice. It also feels a little less unique a run n' gun without the immediacy of its predecessor's speed and energy refilling.

It's by no means a bad game, just inferior when compared to Outzone.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

*

[BrianC]

wait for proper emulation.

Wait, so it's not properly emulated after all? Well damn.

What all is wrong with the current emulation?

I think this might be it.

AFAIK the game isn't properly emulated in MAME and the emulated version there is very unforgiving (you have much less time to finish the levels), which might explain its bad reputation here.

[Ed Oscuro]

Brian, don't regurgitate posts that aren't true, thx (not that I have ever done this...)

I don't remember which version of FixEight I have. Maybe the Taiwan version. So - holy hell there are a lot of versions in MAME now (I guess I knew this).

My biggest problem with FixEight is that the characters aren't equal in any way. Many of them have useful-seeming spread patterns, or not, but are far less powerful than others and seem to take forever to kill routine enemies. Even one character who will have one good weapon will have crap for their alternate or for their special. I think I like Ziguragi the best overall, though you lose his incredibly useful spread shuriken attack when you go to the Special.

Gain Ground also has this problem, but unlike FixEight, GG is somewhat excused because you can select a main character out of your roster. Playing with a weaker character in GG is usually a punishment for getting killed on the battlefield.

FixEight is also pretty harsh (imo) about taking your time through levels. A "Go Ahead" graphic appears and will start flashing insistently pretty quickly, and if you wait around too long I think your life gets snuffed. Not as elegant as OutZone's solution in one sense, but you don't have to constantly think "where is the next energy capsule?"

Finally, I would suggest everybody try turning on Free Play mode at least once to see the intro! No idea why they remove it for regular play, but perhaps they wanted to strip out more of the elements extraneous to playing. They left in the dopey endgame story bits, though.

[Ruldra]

Brian, don't regurgitate posts that aren't true, thx (not that I have ever done this...)

The source of my "post that isn't true" is from a discussion at gamengai (here). It's about the bootleg version that was emulated back then.

[Ed Oscuro]

Brian, don't regurgitate posts that aren't true, thx (not that I have ever done this...)

The source of my "post that isn't true" is from a discussion at gamengai (here). It's about the bootleg version that was emulated back then.

Yes, I remember the state of FixEight emulation very well.

Sorry to hurt your feelings, maybe I should have been more circumspect in reflecting that since the mix-up was already resolved there was no reason for BrianC to quote it as if it hadn't been.

Like I said, I know I've passed along information that turned out to be false so I can't throw stones here.

So, as you say, that has nothing to do with whether FixEight itself is good or bad. Your thoughts on this matter? (I am not getting drawn off topic after having made a few points I thought were worthy of the discussion!)

I don't like the idea of removing the energy bar and replacing it with a silent timer (which also means exploits, which there are)

I am confused by this. Yes, you can get the not-so-silent timer to stop counting down by moving a little bit, but since I don't think enemies endlessly wash down the screen in most areas, this isn't allowing too much time on earlier stages / loops for easier scoring. Not sure what the exploit is supposed to be.

[Estebang]

Don't understand the hate/apathy in this thread. FixEight is an extremely playable overhead run-n-gun that improves on OutZone in practically every non-aesthetic sense, with level design that takes its concepts farther than OutZone ever did. It's got a very individualized selection of characters who are more balanced than they may seem--Vistario's charged burner makes short work of big targets and bosses, but is dangerous to use among swarms of small enemies. Stop whining that it's not OutZone and play it more.

And for all purposes of normal play, the game EMULATES PERFECTLY in recent versions of MAME. You no longer have to play any bootlegs with inflated difficulty.

The one glaring flaw I will point out is that the special weapons are almost always inferior to the normal selections, but the pickups are easy to avoid.

How do you activate free play to see the intro? Couldn't find it in service mode.

[Ed Oscuro]

I was wrong to call it free play - it's the normal mode (selection #10) which turns into invincibility mode. (I didn't realize MAME was such a pain - hit F2 repeatedly, and hit it again to restart the game, instead of F3 which resets the DIP switches too.)

I believe I have the Taiwan version, though I'll have to see if mine has the Japanese subtitle (under FixEight at the title screen). It does have the English text.

Interestingly enough, the writing of the translated intro is very good - no Zero Wing - even though it's for Taiwan. It also appears that it might be more understandable than the Japanese on one point - the Japanese intro begins with "HC 109," which the Taiwan version helpfully translates to "Hyper Century 109."

[BrianC]

Brian, don't regurgitate posts that aren't true, thx (not that I have ever done this...)

Sorry about that. I wasn't sure myself (and I used the word "might" for that reason). The reason I quoted the previous post was becuase Samurai Fox asked what was wrong and Rudla already mentioned what might had been wrong. Despatche also said something was wrong and then Samurai Fox questioned him after saying that the problem was fixed, so I was a bit confused.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's OK, I'm sorry I offended anyone. Good rule of thumb though - if in doubt, it doesn't hurt to keep quiet (it's taken me a looong time to learn that one myself, and here's evidence maybe I really haven't).

[IseeThings]

@blackoak: Do you have a Japanese PCB?

I bought it recently, and it was advertised as the "Europe" version. The dip switches seem to allow for changing the region, but are there inherent difference between the Japanese/European PCBs? I can't really find anything about it online.

If your PCB has dipswitches it's a boot, the original uses EEPROM for the settings, including the region which is hardcoded at production.

The interesting thing about the game (in the versions emulated by MAME) at least is that both the original and bootleg have the invulnerability switch and intro switch tied together. Basically the only way to have the nice animated intro is to turn on invulnerability, which makes it impossible to die. That actually appears to be a bug in the game code (or an intentional change to disable it) so I'm wondering if there is an original release without that. Maybe the first Japanese release or something.

[Dave_K.]

Basically the only way to have the nice animated intro is to turn on invulnerability, which makes it impossible to die. That actually appears to be a bug in the game code (or an intentional change to disable it) so I'm wondering if there is an original release without that. Maybe the first Japanese release or something.

I have both JPN and KOR original PCBs, and both have this same bug where intro is only shown when invulnerability is enabled. I think someone needs to make a patch for the rom and fix the bug.

Oh, and this game MAKES MY DAY!

[IseeThings]

Basically the only way to have the nice animated intro is to turn on invulnerability, which makes it impossible to die. That actually appears to be a bug in the game code (or an intentional change to disable it) so I'm wondering if there is an original release without that. Maybe the first Japanese release or something.

I have both JPN and KOR original PCBs, and both have this same bug where intro is only shown when invulnerability is enabled. I think someone needs to make a patch for the rom and fix the bug.

That would ruin any chance of a real genuine verified version without the issue ever being found (if one ever existed).. I absolutely hate people who hack roms like this...

Of course, it's inevitable somebody will hack it anyway, then try and sell it as genuine :-/

[Ed Oscuro]

Basically the only way to have the nice animated intro is to turn on invulnerability, which makes it impossible to die. That actually appears to be a bug in the game code (or an intentional change to disable it) so I'm wondering if there is an original release without that. Maybe the first Japanese release or something.

I have both JPN and KOR original PCBs, and both have this same bug where intro is only shown when invulnerability is enabled. I think someone needs to make a patch for the rom and fix the bug.

Oh, and this game MAKES MY DAY!

What the hell does Cull Horn say?

Basically the only way to have the nice animated intro is to turn on invulnerability, which makes it impossible to die. That actually appears to be a bug in the game code (or an intentional change to disable it) so I'm wondering if there is an original release without that. Maybe the first Japanese release or something.

I have both JPN and KOR original PCBs, and both have this same bug where intro is only shown when invulnerability is enabled. I think someone needs to make a patch for the rom and fix the bug.

That would ruin any chance of a real genuine verified version without the issue ever being found (if one ever existed).. I absolutely hate people who hack roms like this...

Of course, it's inevitable somebody will hack it anyway, then try and sell it as genuine :-/

In before "THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS"

Really though, the intro is about 10 seconds (if that) and entirely skippable after you've seen it a few times. I'm OK with it being on the Invincibility setting.

[louisg]

I'm so happy to see a FixEight thread. I haven't played it a whole lot, but I loved OutZone. Last time I tried this in MAME, the colors seemed screwed so I gave up. Looks like it's time to try again.

[blackoak]

Well, my euro fixeight has the service menu (no dipswitches), so its legit. There's no option to change the region, but there are multiple difficulty settings... any idea if a harder difficulty settings corresponds to the base JP pcb setting? I suppose I could fire up MAME and test this out myself.

I watched the intro the other day... takes awhile to cycle through all 8 character bios. Very quirky and much more detailed than the writeup at hardcoregaming... but they are basically the same as those at that one Toaplan dedicated website.

[Macaw]

Yeah, like Estebang said before the game is indeed emulated correctly in newer versions of mame, just make sure you play the original Japanese version. The 10 million other versions of the game in mame have different difficulty changes and limitations to the timer which mess things up.

I like the stage design variety and character selection of Fixeight but compared to Outzone it certainly just isn't quite as fun or cool, though its definitely still a good game and provides an absolute shitload more difficulty than Outzone.

What I can never understand is how people always seem to say the graphics suck in the game? They are the typical toaplan high quality pixel work of the time. If people simply don't like the more pale colour use in the game then I'd hate to think would they would say about the Konami games with more extreme use of pale colour, like Gaiapolis and Violent Storm.

[Ed Oscuro]

Actually, I felt that Gaiapolois and VS have more contrast in their levels. There's also more variety in the graphics in those games, and the designs of objects are generally more interesting too. Which is not to say that Fixeight is bad; it's just average for Toaplan, maybe a bit below for the time period. Thankfully the use of high-resolution character profiles is limited (see also Knuckle Bash for many pants-shredding designs).