So has S-Video been abandoned?

[greg]

I've moved to Japan now, yay. I didn't take my TV with me though, which is a Toshiba CRT TV from Japan I bought 11 years ago and took with me back to America when I moved there in 2002. It has D-Link and S-Video. I'm starting to miss that TV.

I'm looking at TVs now here, with all this high-falootin' high-def, flat screen, scratch-n-sniff, LED technology. Yet none of the TVs so far have S-video inputs. Why the heck not? It looks better than composite, yet these TVs only have composite hookups, not S-video. What the heck? Is it like this outside of Japan too?

I don't have a blu-ray player. I don't have a PS3 or a 360 or a Wii. I'm pretty much a retro gamer, set in my ways. Maybe I should have my old TV shipped to Japan after all. What the heck?

[rancor]

Good to have you here, greg. We'll have to meet up when you get down here to Tokyo.

Anyhow, my Sharp 29" CRT television that I bought here in Tokyo specifically for gaming has composite, S-video, and D-link. Never used the d-link since the cables for that are stupid expensive. I've got a Saturn, PS2, and a PC hooked up to it via S-video and the picture is great.
Keep looking around in the recycle shops in your area, because I know s-video capable TVs are out there. Since Japan went to all-digital broadcast last year all of the old CRT televisions are really cheap.

[shmuppyLove]

Gah, you wouldn't want to use s-video on an HDTV anyway. Or composite for that matter. It looks horribad.

[burgerkingdiamond]

strange. Both of the LCD HDTV's that I've bought have s-video (bought one as recent as November). And my Saturn through s-video looked really good on it btw.

[Kiken]

I've moved to Japan now, yay. I didn't take my TV with me though, which is a Toshiba CRT TV from Japan I bought 11 years ago and took with me back to America when I moved there in 2002. It has D-Link and S-Video. I'm starting to miss that TV.

I'm looking at TVs now here, with all this high-falootin' high-def, flat screen, scratch-n-sniff, LED technology. Yet none of the TVs so far have S-video inputs. Why the heck not? It looks better than composite, yet these TVs only have composite hookups, not S-video. What the heck? Is it like this outside of Japan too?

I don't have a blu-ray player. I don't have a PS3 or a 360 or a Wii. I'm pretty much a retro gamer, set in my ways. Maybe I should have my old TV shipped to Japan after all. What the heck?

Depends on the manufacturer, I know that both Vizio and Phillips still produce HD-TVs with S-Vid inputs. Although, the continued inclusion of Composite is due to its proliferation and the fact that many manufacturers now double-up the composite video input on the Luma Component input.

[Stormwatch]

Gah, you wouldn't want to use s-video on an HDTV anyway. Or composite for that matter. It looks horribad.

For old consoles, S-Video is often as good as it gets, and it is a huge improvement over composite. I mean:

[Strider77]

Not on a HDTV.....

[burgerkingdiamond]

s-video can still look very good on a HDTV. RSG looks pretty damn good for Saturn.

[Friendly]

RGB*

/thread

*In case this isn't self-explanatory: S-video sucks. Get RGB cables/mods for your consoles. Then, using an upscaler, convert the RGB signal to whatever you need (hdmi,componenent). Live happily ever after.

[dunpeal2064]

S-video is nice for older consoles, definitely a huge upgrade from composite (on a crt)

I'm in the process of upgrading to RGB now that I have the monitor for it, so I can't say much as to how they compare yet.

RGB is definitely more work to get running on your consoles, but I'm sure its worth the effort.

It is unfortunate that S-video is becoming more rare,

[Kiken]

S-video is nice for older consoles, definitely a huge upgrade from composite (on a crt)

On every HD-TV I've done a comparison on, S-Video always looked miles better than Composite (better colour saturation, better colour separation, better image definition). Yes, Component and RGB are significantly better than S-Video by a relatively same order of magnitude.

[Skykid]

I avoid S-Video like the plague unless it's the only option for not hardmodding my console, so it's in use on my Wondermega and Mark III.

[greg]

Good to have you here, greg. We'll have to meet up when you get down here to Tokyo.

Thanks! I sent you an e-mail several days ago, but didn't get a response.

Anyhow, my Sharp 29" CRT television that I bought here in Tokyo specifically for gaming has composite, S-video, and D-link. Never used the d-link since the cables for that are stupid expensive. I've got a Saturn, PS2, and a PC hooked up to it via S-video and the picture is great.
Keep looking around in the recycle shops in your area, because I know s-video capable TVs are out there. Since Japan went to all-digital broadcast last year all of the old CRT televisions are really cheap.

So what are recycle shops called in Japanese? I know pawn shops are called "shichiya", but my wife isn't convinced that they have electronics like pawn shops in the USA do.

<EDIT: I guess Hard Off has some stuff like that...>

OK, so maybe guessing from what I have seen here and from what Burgerkingdiamond wrote, HD TVs in the USA still come with S-Video, Japanese ones do not. Hmmm.... I'll keep looking here. I actually am having Specineff take care of my beloved TV for the time being, because I wasn't sure if I could sell it, or if I wanted to sell it. It was just bulky and as much as I love it, I figured I should just leave it behind. I figured when I got here, I could choose a TV that looks good, and that it would have S-video inputs automatically. Nuts. And no, I'm not going to mod all of my consoles for RGB.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Some of the NTSC HDTVs that were sold in the USA back in 2007-2008, they came with the usual inputs listed:

Video-wise: RCA composite video, S-Video, Component Video, VGA (or DVI in it's place on the higher-end HDTVs), & HDMI inputs. Audio-wise: RCA phono inputs + Toslink/Digital Optical output (to be hooked up to a stereo reciever/amplifier setup).

Nowdays, on some of the cheaper NTSC HDTVs sold in the USA in 2011 and into the 2012 year (the ones being sold for a mere $300.00 USD), some TV manufacturers have done away with S-Video and/or Component Video inputs to save on manufacturing them (lower overall production costs = more profit). You do get what you pay for in the end.

The general rule of thumb: Play your old-school consoles on an old-school CRT monitor & play your modern-day gaming consoles on an HDTV setup. That's a given.

Is it still possible to buy an Japanese HDTV that has the old-school Japanese 21-pin RGB inputs (or has that been superceeded by D-Terminal/D-Link inputs instead)?

You'd think that a Japanese HDTV would have all the usual inputs such as:

RCA composite video, S-Video, Japanese 21-pin RGB, D-Link/D-Terminal, DVI (or VGA) & lastly, HDMI.

Back in 2000, was viewing some really high-end USA region NTSC based HDTVs with prices ranging from $15,000 to $20,000 USD easily (they still needed an external HD reciever unit hooked up to the HDTV to recieve off-the-air HD programming). Definitely out of my league, price-wise.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Blackbird]

I was under the impression that most Japanese televisions have RGB SCART inputs, which should be better than S-Video. Why go through all the trouble when you could just go RGB?

Does Japan have any equivalent to the US' Goodwill stores? If so, I recommend going there and finding a good flatscreen CRT.

[GaijinPunch]

So what are recycle shops called in Japanese? I know pawn shops are called "shichiya", but my wife isn't convinced that they have electronics like pawn shops in the USA do.

They are called Yahoo Japan Auctions. Get a 28" Sony Vega with AV-Multi input. This is RGB. I can get a converter off of Yahoo as well, which will go to JPN RGB (looks like scart). Many Japanese consoles will support it out of the box (SFC, DC, Saturn, PS, PS2) and others will require a mod (PC-Engine, Famicom). Trust me, this is the way to go. You'll be so pleased w/ the results you might blow me next time you see me.

I was under the impression that most Japanese televisions have RGB SCART inputs, which should be better than S-Video. Why go through all the trouble when you could just go RGB?

Definitely not. A very, very select few did. I've never seen one. The easiest solution is to go through the above. The best solution here is to get an arcade monitor -- also somewhat cheap but you have to wait for one on YJ unless you're handy.

Does Japan have any equivalent to the US' Goodwill stores? If so, I recommend going there and finding a good flatscreen CRT.

Recycle shops... yes. But you can always get stuff cheaper on yahoo Japan, or if you catch a foreigner fleeing the country you can get good deals at sayonara sales.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Go RGB.

[greg]

OK, during cleaning time, I looked around at this school's HDTVs and saw that these have S-Video inputs. I've no idea how old these televisions are, however.

RGB, RGB, RGB. Everyone keeps mentioning RGB, but a Sega Saturn and such only has S-Video or Composite output support. I am not an electrical engineering major like Undamned is, and I am pretty useless with electronics.

They are called Yahoo Japan Auctions. Get a 28" Sony Vega with AV-Multi input. This is RGB. I can get a converter off of Yahoo as well, which will go to JPN RGB (looks like scart). Many Japanese consoles will support it out of the box (SFC, DC, Saturn, PS, PS2) and others will require a mod (PC-Engine, Famicom). Trust me, this is the way to go. You'll be so pleased w/ the results you might blow me next time you see me.

Can you link to what one of these converter boxes look like? Like link to a YAJ listing or something. I want to see what they look like, and know what they're called in Japanese. Are they like an upscale converter or something?

[Stormwatch]

Yeah, it's like you're saying "a Ford is better than a Yugo" and people go "Ford, pfff, go get a Ferrari".

Can't you dolts realize that the perfect, ideal solution often is NOT VIABLE?!

[Ghegs]

RGB, RGB, RGB. Everyone keeps mentioning RGB, but a Sega Saturn and such only has S-Video or Composite output support. I am not an electrical engineering major like Undamned is, and I am pretty useless with electronics.

Like GP said, Saturn supports RGB-out without any need for modding. Most consoles do, really.

[Strider77]

RGB or bust... live with it. Now if it's a low res CRT and s video it's fine. S video on a HDTV looks better than composite sure.... but neither look GOOD on a HDTV.

[greg]

RGB or bust... live with it. Now if it's a low res CRT and s video it's fine. S video on a HDTV looks better than composite sure.... but neither look GOOD on a HDTV.

Yeah, ok. Just sit there for about three and a half years while I go get an electrical engineering degree so that I can know how to mod all my consoles for RGB output. It'll take a while, so please make yourself a sandwich or something while you wait.

Really? I mean, I really need to mod all of my consoles? At least Stormwatch seems to understand the situation. I don't have a Wii, 360, or any hi-def consoles. Everything I have is S-Video or composite. Yet you mean to tell me that I need to mod all of my consoles? This thread is really getting weird. It's either I am missing something very obvious, or half the posts here are useless. At this point, I'm just waiting for GP or somebody to point me to where I can find an upscale converter in Japan. Either that, or I can maybe luck out and find an HDTV that has S-video input. Otherwise, I may pick up a CRT on the cheap like Rancor suggested.

Like GP said, Saturn supports RGB-out without any need for modding. Most consoles do, really.

How? I have never seen an RGB cable for a Saturn. I know the Dreamcast had a VGA output cable. It took me a day scouring Osaka's Den Den Town to find a Saturn S-vid cable over 10 years ago. I have never seen an RGB-output cable for a Saturn, or a SNES, or a Turbo Duo.

[Ghegs]

Like GP said, Saturn supports RGB-out without any need for modding. Most consoles do, really.

How? I have never seen an RGB cable for a Saturn. I know the Dreamcast had a VGA output cable. It took me a day scouring Osaka's Den Den Town to find a Saturn S-vid cable over 10 years ago. I have never seen an RGB-output cable for a Saturn, or a SNES, or a Turbo Duo.

Turbo Duo is the only one out of those that requires any modding in order to output RGB. For Saturn, DC, PS1, PS2, Megadrive, SNES*, etc. all it takes is a cable. Official cables exist but of course might be hard to find nowadays. Check eBay, plenty of options there.

*The last SNES model (SNES Mini/SNES jr) dropped RGB support, so avoid that

[rancor]

Here's an awesome upscaler you may be able to snag for cheap:

http://page19.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/a ... x213394807

If not that XRGB-3, then go for the XRGB-2 which I like better anyhow. Less expensive, and it's just "plug and play". XRGB-3 has waaay too much unnecessary bells/menus/buttons/bullshit going on.

Heres an all-in-one RGB cable:

http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k149685541

Works on PS, PS2, DC, Xbox, and SFC

Heres a cable specifically for SFC:

http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m97228171

and finally, heres a Saturn RGB cable:

http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w70770182

If you wait around a bit you can get some real bargains. I agree that RGB will blow your mind, but s-video is good enough.

...And after all of that writing all of that, I still stand by my original suggestion - just go get a cheap CRT. People were made to think they were missing out if they didn't have an HDTV by early 2011, and even my 70+ year old in-laws got in on the game and dumped their old TV... Seriously, awesome TVs that were tens-of-thousands of yen a few short years ago are being sold for between 7,000 and 12,000 yen at your local recycle shop because to pick up over the air TV requires a converter. Some even cheaper if you don't mind waiting for a deal.

[greg]

Here's an awesome upscaler you may be able to snag for cheap:

http://page19.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/a ... x213394807

If not that XRGB-3, then go for the XRGB-2 which I like better anyhow. Less expensive, and it's just "plug and play". XRGB-3 has waaay too much unnecessary bells/menus/buttons/bullshit going on.

Thanks. I've no patience for bullshit. I've been having to deal with enough of that in other facets in my life. I already have an intricate series of S-video switch boxes: two boxes for game consoles, both going into a fiver that has extra inputs for a VCR (I have a composite to S-video converter going into it) and for my laserdisc player. The DVD player got its own direct input into my old TV, but that was through a stereo receiver that I sold for some quick cash at a pawn shop.

Instead of buying a ton of RGB cables (I honestly thought that these needed modifying a console), it may be cheaper to get that upscaler. Either that, or with space permitting, I may just have a dedicated gaming CRT in another room somewhere. For the time being, we're camping out in a real shitty apartment. It's run down and old, and very cramped. The staircase leading to the two rooms on the top floor is very steep, like climbing a mountain. My wife slipped and fell real hard a couple nights ago. We won't even allow our daughter to go up. She loves stairs, but she's scared of coming down them. Plus, the queen-sized bed we bought and are having shipped here would never fit up that staircase. The landing at the top, which connects to the two top rooms on either side, is about the size of a bath mat. One slip and it's game over. Plus it's filthy, and to make it worse,the former tenant was from India, and it was smelly.

...And after all of that writing all of that, I still stand by my original suggestion - just go get a cheap CRT. People were made to think they were missing out if they didn't have an HDTV by early 2011, and even my 70+ year old in-laws got in on the game and dumped their old TV... Seriously, awesome TVs that were tens-of-thousands of yen a few short years ago are being sold for between 7,000 and 12,000 yen at your local recycle shop because to pick up over the air TV requires a converter. Some even cheaper if you don't mind waiting for a deal.

I might do this. Which reminds me, for those in the USA, I have a freaking beautiful Toshiba CRT 24" TV that is awesome for retro gaming. It has ridiculously high S-video filtering, to the point that eight years ago, people thought it was an HDTV. I wouldn't ask much, but shipping will be a lot due to the weight, I'm sure.

[Friendly]

Instead of buying a ton of RGB cables (I honestly thought that these needed modifying a console), it may be cheaper to get that upscaler.

You don't seem to understand, you ned RGB cords AND an upscaler to get the best results when playing old consoles on HDTVs. Upscaling S-video is crap.

I don't get your problem; it's not that hard to go online and buy ~5 RGB cables.

[Skykid]

Instead of buying a ton of RGB cables (I honestly thought that these needed modifying a console), it may be cheaper to get that upscaler.

You don't seem to understand, you ned RGB cords AND an upscaler to get the best results when playing old consoles on HDTVs. Upscaling S-video is crap.

I don't get your problem; it's not that hard to go online and buy ~5 RGB cables.

He's obviously just not ingratiated with RGB and it all sounds busy and confusing. You'll get it greg. Here's the simplest way of looking at it:

1: Buy 3rd party Japanese scart lead for your Super Famicom
2: Plug it into your upscaler
3: Turn on your TV

Repeat the process for your Sega Saturn, PS2, PS1, Megadrive, Neo Geo etc

95% of consoles support RGB, but some need to be hard modded to support it, such as PC Engine, N64 (JP or PAL only), Wondermega etc. and that requires a bit more hoop jumping as you'll need to send the machines to someone who can do the job for you.

[GaijinPunch]

I may just have a dedicated gaming CRT in another room somewhere.

If you want to play your old games properly, this is what you need. You're not in Tokyo, so space isn't as much of a premium. Just do it. Trust me, you won't regret it. Wega's on YJ are like 10,000 yen... maybe cheaper. Okay, they're not as easy to find now as they were 3-4 years ago, but here is an example. Here is a search. I see 3 candidates at 21" (not bad) and they're extremely cheap. For your consoles, just get their RGB cables and voila, jizz in your pants.

If you insist on the flat screen, then get the upscaler and the RGB cables. Getting a pretty [convenient] box for RGB is a lot tricker than w/ S-Video, but c'mon ... we can't be that lazy can we?

[burgerkingdiamond]

Yeah, it's like you're saying "a Ford is better than a Yugo" and people go "Ford, pfff, go get a Ferrari".

Can't you dolts realize that the perfect, ideal solution often is NOT VIABLE?!

Perfect analogy dude. Seriously, the RGB broken record get's old. Especially if you're in the US where you don't have SCART. Not that it's impossible, but you're going to have to spend some money on converter boxes and shit. Which is fine if you have the cash/interest to go that route.

But, S-video is a HUGE improvement over composite. It's night and day.

[undamned]

RGB*

/thread

*In case this isn't self-explanatory: S-video sucks. Get RGB cables/mods for your consoles. Then, using an upscaler, convert the RGB signal to whatever you need (hdmi,componenent). Live happily ever after.

Too much of a pain in the butt for 95% of the planet

/your idea

-ud