Input smoothing yay or nay

[Selachii]

Before I start this discussion I want to make clear that I'm a developer and this question came to me we while working on iCade support for my game. But I didn't post this in the 'development' section as this discussion is about a concept in general, rather than about a specific title.

I have never played a shmup on an arcade machine. I was lucky enough to have computers near me from very early age (it was the year 1983), but this kept me from going out to arcades. I love shmups and I play them on every device, pc, console, iphone etc., but like i said, never on an arcade machine.

Now my main question is, did shmups in the arcade use any sort of smoothing on the input delivered via the joystick? Do you think there should be?

I don't think the very early games had smoothing, but how about the arcade shmups from the 90's and later? I have no clue. Some use it on consoles, but not all.

Just to be sure, with smoothing I mean a process that interpolates between the changes of direction to make the ship fly a more smooth curved path. It looks better, but makes the ship change direction slower ever so slightly. It generally allows easier navigation between paths of bullets, as it is easier to maintain a stable course at different speeds. On the other hand it makes the instant 'quickly go the other direction' response time a bit slower.

It might differ per game as I guess some shmups rely on smooth paths being flown, rather than zig-zag/stair pattern flying.

Myself i am currently conflicted so I was really curious what your experience is. (especially from you with arcade experience)

[Shatterhand]

No, and this is not a good thing to implement in your game.

Shmup = 8 digital directions. You press UP, the ship moves UP a fixed amount of pixels. If I press DOWN, I want my ship to instantly move DOWN the same fixed amount of pixels.

No variation on speed, no inertia.

Shmups are all about precision.

[captpain]

No, and this is not a good thing to implement in your game.

Shmup = 8 digital directions. You press UP, the ship moves UP a fixed amount of pixels. If I press DOWN, I want my ship to instantly move DOWN the same fixed amount of pixels.

No variation on speed, no inertia.

Shmups are all about precision.

+1

[Selachii]

Ok, yes especially if you put it that way it seems silly to apply any sort of smoothing. But i'm still curious if it has been done, I guess the answer will remain 'no' for now

[Raytrace]

I'm pretty against it too, having said that - one time I was too lazy to connect my stick up to play Ikaruga on 360 and I used the analogue stick on the pad out of curiosity, and it actually played kinda OK, Treasure must have done some sortof acceleration stuff to make that possible I think...

[Ex-Cyber]

Not really a shmup, but I think Contra (arcade, not NES) interpolates firing angles a bit.

[Gus]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to at least get some experience with arcade shmups under your belt before you start developing similar games?

[Selachii]

@Gus: hehe, well it's not for an arcade cabinet. It was released on iOS with only touch input, which is always 1:1. Now that we (my partner in crime and me) are adding iCade support (which does feature a stick and buttons), we're coming across this question. I am curious what the hardcore shmup players (you) think about it and how it was done in the past. It's hard to find any decent information on how these games actually controlled in arcades, my best results have been from youtube cam movies where people show both input and screen. I wish i could just walk out to an arcade and try them all myself, but that's very much impossible where I live

[captpain]

Emulate them on MAME. Why did you make a shmup without knowing anything about them?

[Selachii]

Haha, sorry, I seem to fail at explaining the situation

I do play shmups, a lot of shmups, I like shmups and I have played them for many years. But I have not played them on the old Arcade cabinets. Yes, sure it can all be emulated, but that is not the same experience (or well, I guess that is part of my question) but I was interested in people who played it in the arcades.

[moozooh]

Some games discern between small tilt (going half speed) and full tilt (going full speed). Other than that, I don't think any interpolation has ever taken place in a fixed-acceleration shooter, which the vast majority of them are.

[Selachii]

Some games discern between small tilt (going half speed) and full tilt (going full speed). Other than that, I don't think any interpolation has ever taken place in a fixed-acceleration shooter, which the vast majority of them are.

awesome, thanks

[Shatterhand]

Some games discern between small tilt (going half speed) and full tilt (going full speed). Other than that, I don't think any interpolation has ever taken place in a fixed-acceleration shooter, which the vast majority of them are.

What game does that?

[Captain]

*quotes first reply*

[Blackbird]

Input smoothing? Are you tryin' to come on to me or something?

[Ed Oscuro]

Arcade games that use any form of interpolation must be very rare. Most all arcade games have direct access to the input hardware (aside from maybe some Windows based machines and similar with an underlying OS designed around abstraction) so the rationale for interpolation is pretty poor. And, for what it's worth, some smart computer game makers have started implementing "direct" access options in their titles (i.e. in Valve titles on PC).

[Selachii]

Cheers, thanks for the great responses, exactly the information i was looking for.

[gray117]

Basically, don't use it unless you're knowing why you're using it.

Traditionally, most arcade games rely on a digital system with a very tactile feel to account for the feedback between the visual response vs physical feedback.

There are arguments for ramping up/down input values with touch devices / server side [lag] / or certain game designs, especially when you're adapting to different feeling controls, or slightly different game mechanics.

... It's a bit like asking if games used to have floaty joysticks or fixed