Manabu Namiki Interview

[ZacharyB]

http://indiegames.com/2012/01/blip_toky ... amiki.html

Some surprising reveals (the Dai Ou Jou tracks were in .MOD format) and not-so-surprising (major influence: Underground Resistance).

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

Cheers for posting. Very interesting indeed.

"[some dude called 'Chibi-Tech':] Whenever I go to live events here in Japan it's usually quite different. It's orchestrated: people pass out a "call book" that tells you how to dance in a predetermined fashion. When it goes to the bridge, you wave your glow stick "like this."

[Udderdude]

Some surprising reveals (the Dai Ou Jou tracks were in .MOD format)

This was actually rumored and considered for some time, so not really surprising. It is cool to finally get confirmation, though. First person to dig the MOD data out of the ROMs and make MODs out of them gets a cookie .. >_>

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Fascinating interview with our own nullsleep with legendary Manabu Namiki. The revelation of what the BGM tunes coded for the plain-vanilla DDP-DOJ White Label PCB based on the earlier DDP II: Bee Storm PCB release is a new one for the Cave fans.

And are the BGM tunes featured on the DDP-DOJ Black Label PCB done in MOD format as well?

It'd be interesting to learn what tools & audio format were used in the BGM creations of the later SH-3 powered DDP-DFK version 1.0/1.5/1.51/Black Label variant PCBs.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[null1024]

Some surprising reveals (the Dai Ou Jou tracks were in .MOD format)

This was actually rumored and considered for some time, so not really surprising. It is cool to finally get confirmation, though. First person to dig the MOD data out of the ROMs and make MODs out of them gets a cookie .. >_>

I tried. If they were MOD at one point, they probably aren't when in game. Samples are split off from song data [in the file m04401b032.u17], and I couldn't find any MOD style patterndata. I even called in the guy who wrote Jaeder Naub [it rips an asston of formats] to help!

The original MOD was probably fed into a converter or something.
[also I fucking love these samples]

[yosai]

From the last MN interview.

The target hardware was a somewhat old piece of foreign-made equipment, and the documentation was written in a foreign language, making it hard to understand. The data for the music needed to be produced in the Amiga MOD format (Protracker compatible), and everything had to be compiled onto a single floppy disk. It was very difficult working under these restrictions. This is a bit nerdy, but I had to compose the music in 8 voice, 8-bit PCM without any envelope follower. Do you know how hard that is? (laughs) After having spent my time in this process of trial and error, there was very little time left in the production, so I produced the soundtrack by entering the data directly using ModPlug Tracker while composing.

After going through all of that trouble for Dai-Ou-Jou, I thought that Ketsui would allow me a bit of a rest, but that turned out not to be the case at all (laughs). In both games, the music is based on that game's individual qualities, from my own personality and know-how, so they resemble each other closely, but I stressed the delicate aspects of the former and the wilder aspects of the latter. I remember Cave would capture images from the game in development onto video tape and deliver them via bike, and inspired by the video I had seen, I turned to ModPlug Tracker and composed meticulously, as if drawing a blueprint. I am very grateful that shooting game die-hards from around the world have supported a soundtrack produced under such unusual circumstances; it is truly an honor.

http://www.squareenixmusic.com/features ... miki.shtml

[colour_thief]

some dude called 'Chibi-Tech'

Your info's out of date, he's now a she.

[Udderdude]

also I fucking love these samples

Yah man, make some MOD music using them. I did, it was fun >_>

[louisg]

This was actually rumored and considered for some time, so not really surprising. It is cool to finally get confirmation, though. First person to dig the MOD data out of the ROMs and make MODs out of them gets a cookie .. >_>

Yeah, I'd heard it before, but my assumption was that the music was in some sequence-plus-samples format and "MOD" was a shorthand for that (the way to some people everything is "MIDI"). It's very cool that they're actually protracker files! Though, surprising considering there are so many better (and less Amiga-specific) formats. That could also be part of the reason the file is (possibly) converted to another format.

BTW don't listen to him, writing MODs isn't as hard as he says ;D

[null1024]

Jaja, writing MODs is really easy. Especially 8 channel ones. The biggest limitation is the fact that you can't edit volume and have an effect at the same time, unless you specify a per-sample volume.
Maybe coming from a normal DAW environment where you can have an asston of channels and filters and etc, tracking would be considered difficult, but bah.

Man, now I'm wondering how awesome it would be to OHC with Namiki.

[TheSoundofRed]

Yah man, make some MOD music using them. I did, it was fun >_>

I'd love to have the samples... I use to write using Modtracker, moved to Nerdtracker, then to Milkytracker.

Your info's out of date, he's now a she.

I used to follow Chibi-tech and always assumed the person behind the handle was a girl. Interesting...

Jaja, writing MODs is really easy. Especially 8 channel ones. The biggest limitation is the fact that you can't edit volume and have an effect at the same time, unless you specify a per-sample volume. .

When I was using Modtracker (or Modplug Tracker, name is escaping me at the moment) there were dedicated channel volume parameters separate from the sample volume parameters. I'm not an expert on the topic but I remember it being the case in that program at least. I also feel Nerdtracker 2 had a similar setup.

[null1024]

Jaja, writing MODs is really easy. Especially 8 channel ones. The biggest limitation is the fact that you can't edit volume and have an effect at the same time, unless you specify a per-sample volume. .

When I was using Modtracker (or Modplug Tracker, name is escaping me at the moment) there were dedicated channel volume parameters separate from the sample volume parameters. I'm not an expert on the topic but I remember it being the case in that program at least. I also feel Nerdtracker 2 had a similar setup.

That's only true in the IT, S3M, and XM formats. The MOD format only allows you to use the effect column, it doesn't have a dedicated volume column. Volume is effect Cxx.

Shame he couldn't use XM, yay instrument envelopes, volume column, and 32 channels!

[TheSoundofRed]

That's only true in the IT, S3M, and XM formats. The MOD format only allows you to use the effect column, it doesn't have a dedicated volume column. Volume is effect Cxx.

Shame he couldn't use XM, yay instrument envelopes, volume column, and 32 channels!

Ohhhh ok. Good information to know. Now I'm hankering to boot up my Gameboy SP and mess with old LSDJ tracks...

[IseeThings]

Some surprising reveals (the Dai Ou Jou tracks were in .MOD format)

This was actually rumored and considered for some time, so not really surprising. It is cool to finally get confirmation, though. First person to dig the MOD data out of the ROMs and make MODs out of them gets a cookie .. >_>

I tried. If they were MOD at one point, they probably aren't when in game. Samples are split off from song data [in the file m04401b032.u17], and I couldn't find any MOD style patterndata. I even called in the guy who wrote Jaeder Naub [it rips an asston of formats] to help!

The original MOD was probably fed into a converter or something.
[also I fucking love these samples]

Well the m*** roms are just sample data.

Any sequencing data will be in the Z80 code, which is uploaded by the main 68k.

I always preferred the actual tracker stuff, it just sounds so much better than the lower quality fixed sample loops so many newer games used, it's one thing I hated about the newer NeoGeo games too, they switched from using proper sequenced music to much lower quality pre-recorded music which had simply been sampled. You get less sound, require more capacity, and have less ability to do dynamic effects, plus lower quality sample rates, and yet people praised it for sounding more like 'real' music....

Of course we all know Cave went back to pure 'MP3' style low quality samples once the SH3 board arrived.

[Kaiser]

I always preferred the actual tracker stuff, it just sounds so much better than the lower quality fixed sample loops so many newer games used, it's one thing I hated about the newer NeoGeo games too, they switched from using proper sequenced music to much lower quality pre-recorded music which had simply been sampled. You get less sound, require more capacity, and have less ability to do dynamic effects, plus lower quality sample rates, and yet people praised it for sounding more like 'real' music....

Ah that should explain why Alpha Mission II's soundtrack is so clear compared to the later stuff. Note: Alpha Mission II soundtrack puts many shmup soundtracks to shame in my opinion, if you haven't heard the final stage theme, then you haven't heard the possibly darkest stage theme of all time.

[renardqueenston]

Jaja, writing MODs is really easy. Especially 8 channel ones. The biggest limitation is the fact that you can't edit volume and have an effect at the same time, unless you specify a per-sample volume.
Maybe coming from a normal DAW environment where you can have an asston of channels and filters and etc, tracking would be considered difficult, but bah.

i've known people that work in traditional timeline environments where they have full control that literally can't deal with not having that. that extra flexibility is nice, but yeah, Namiki makes it sound way harder than it actually is. once you learn the interface, trackers are pretty much the fastest way to produce music bar none.

[Deca]

trackers are pretty much the fastest way to produce music bar none.

While I don't profess to be some expert in composition, or even an amateur really, I have to say I've found this to be completely true as well. I'm sure it helps that my first exposure to electronic composition was through trackers, but I just feel much more on top of things working in them than anything else.

[louisg]

trackers are pretty much the fastest way to produce music bar none.

While I don't profess to be some expert in composition, or even an amateur really, I have to say I've found this to be completely true as well. I'm sure it helps that my first exposure to electronic composition was through trackers, but I just feel much more on top of things working in them than anything else.

Yeah, I mostly agree. Though, I have talked to at least one person who used to do well in half hour chip compos and who now swears by sequencers. If you can play piano, you can usually sequence pretty fast. I play myself, but I do find that I still compose faster in a tracker (maybe brain damage..?). Of course, if you're trying to do very fluid and natural sounding parts, tracking that can take a much longer time than playing it.

PCM-based devices which don't have envelopes shouldn't be *that* exotic though, right? Hopefully he didn't do the Terminal Velocity thing and sew together small loops dumped from his synth gear, though the Ketsui music sort of sounds like that might be the case. I wonder if it also explains why so many songs in that soundtrack are variations on the main theme, or if that was his preferred design choice.

[Udderdude]

Hopefully he didn't do the Terminal Velocity thing and sew together small loops dumped from his synth gear, though the Ketsui music sort of sounds like that might be the case.

Judging from the sample data, it's a mix of short D&B loops and most everything else is samples.

[null1024]

trackers are pretty much the fastest way to produce music bar none.

While I don't profess to be some expert in composition, or even an amateur really, I have to say I've found this to be completely true as well. I'm sure it helps that my first exposure to electronic composition was through trackers, but I just feel much more on top of things working in them than anything else.

Yeah, I mostly agree. Though, I have talked to at least one person who used to do well in half hour chip compos and who now swears by sequencers. If you can play piano, you can usually sequence pretty fast. I play myself, but I do find that I still compose faster in a tracker (maybe brain damage..?). Of course, if you're trying to do very fluid and natural sounding parts, tracking that can take a much longer time than playing it.

PCM-based devices which don't have envelopes shouldn't be *that* exotic though, right? Hopefully he didn't do the Terminal Velocity thing and sew together small loops dumped from his synth gear, though the Ketsui music sort of sounds like that might be the case. I wonder if it also explains why so many songs in that soundtrack are variations on the main theme, or if that was his preferred design choice.

Well, loads of the pre-recorded loops are breakbeats, so you'd just chop those up for your drums or just play the sample straight. I'm thinking that the similarity in the tracks are more so because of intentional design, namely because the most of the melody and other bits are actually sequenced, and not pre-recorded. Of course, this is just guessing. :P

Also, maybe he considered it so hard because he was using ModPlug instead of MilkyTracker. >:DDD Seriously, I started tracking using that, and it almost drove me away from it. The default keymap doesn't hepl.

[louisg]

Well, loads of the pre-recorded loops are breakbeats, so you'd just chop those up for your drums or just play the sample straight. I'm thinking that the similarity in the tracks are more so because of intentional design, namely because the most of the melody and other bits are actually sequenced, and not pre-recorded. Of course, this is just guessing.

Also, maybe he considered it so hard because he was using ModPlug instead of MilkyTracker. >:DDD Seriously, I started tracking using that, and it almost drove me away from it. The default keymap doesn't hepl.

Oh I was thinking the loops would be the drums and synth arpeggios. The melody I was thinking could have been because he was having trouble composing with trackers. I'll have to check out the samples.

Agreed re: ModPlug!

[MathU]

Cool interview. K.H.D.N. next please.

[Leandro]

Great interview, I'm his biggest fan