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[Cagar]

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[Estebang]

We've sure had a lot of introductions lately--which is of course a very good thing! Is it Jamestown, Satazius, or the smartphone ports that's bringing everyone here?

[Krimzon Kitzune]

It's always nice to see more people getting into STGs.

[RNGmaster]

I always use keyboards - if you've been playing on a keyboard to this point, and you've done stuff as impressive as a DOJBL 1-ALL, there's no use spending months familiarizing yourself with a method of control that might not work as well.

Go ahead and get a J-360, but please, please, don't neglect games for MAME like Psikyo and Raizing titles. Garegga is amazing.

[Paradigm]

I always use keyboards - if you've been playing on a keyboard to this point, and you've done stuff as impressive as a DOJBL 1-ALL, there's no use spending months familiarizing yourself with a method of control that might not work as well.

But what if it works better? He won't know unless he tries.

If money's tight, I wouldn't worry about it, but if you have the cash to burn I'd say it's worth trying out a good arcade stick. If you don't like it after a month or two you can always sell it and go back to keyboard.

[captpain]

thanks for the casual homophobia

[AntiFritz]

thanks for the casual homophobia

I don't see any at all.

[RNGmaster]

"newfag"

[AntiFritz]

"newfag"

I would't say thats homophobia at all.

[Cagar]

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[AntiFritz]

I always use keyboards - if you've been playing on a keyboard to this point, and you've done stuff as impressive as a DOJBL 1-ALL, there's no use spending months familiarizing yourself with a method of control that might not work as well.

Go ahead and get a J-360, but please, please, don't neglect games for MAME like Psikyo and Raizing titles. Garegga is amazing.

I'm newfag enough to only like cave's games (cave's games... haha), and for example Garegga, what's so special about it? The hitboxes are weird as hell, enemy bullets are almost invisible due to background-color, and overall... it just doesn't feel good to play it. No smoothness at all. Same thing for batrider & gunbird.
I've seen you try to trick new shmup players into garegga and batrider lol

But please don't hate me because of this, I'll try to play them properly tomorrow... I've been awake for over 24 hours, and after a game over @ ketsui's final attack, I almost went unconscious
due to high hearbeat

Yeah i woudn't suggest a raizing style game to a beginner at all, especially not with their bullets tendency to blend in aswell as rank. It's always good to try out different styles though.

[SuperSoaker360]

A 1cc on DOJ Black Label is impressive. I've been a shmup player for a good two and a half years but I've always avoided Cave's games until just recently. I'm still having trouble doing a 1cc on DOJ Black Label but I must say that the learning experience for a Cave game is quite enjoyable.

Really though, you're starting off pretty well for a beginner in my opinion.

[Deca]

I'd suggest forcing yourself to put some time into games by other companies just to see how you like them, you might surprise yourself. I got really into Batrider early on, there was an initial hangup but just sticking with it for a few days made that pass. Try everything and don't put too much stock in peoples opinions until you've formed at least the beginnings of one for yourself.

As far as controllers go, I always use keyboard for mame and stick for 360/ps3. Saturn pads for my Saturn but I'd probably use a stick if I had a compatible one. Don't get too hung up on controller issues, get something that at least doesn't work against you and just roll with it. I would suggest holding off on a stick until you can afford a decent one with seimitsu or sanwa parts, just because a crappy stick is only going to make playing less enjoyable.

Props on DOJBL, I've been working on that one over the past couple months. A couple areas still give me a lot of trouble, I might bug you for advice at some point

[Estebang]

Yeah, I should have mentioned that the "newfag" quip was not appreciated. This isn't goddamn 4chan--restrain your casual homophobia.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The hitboxes are weird as hell, enemy bullets are almost invisible due to background-color, and overall... it just doesn't feel good to play it. No smoothness at all. Same thing for batrider & gunbird.

The thing is, Garegga, Batrider, Bakraid and early Psikyo shmups on MAME have more input lag than Ketsui. Even on shmupmame there are still two frames of delay left. Playing any shmup on a laggy setup makes things worse.
Mahou Daisakusen is a Raizing shmup with clearly visible bullets, responsive controls and terrific art style. Psikyo-wise you can't go wrong with Dragon Blaze, Space Bomber and Gunbird 2. All should be played with the shmupmame sprite buffer hack (unless you have good home ports or actual PCBs). Remember NOT to use bilinear filtering and to put scanlines on. Last but not least, if you don't own one, your first purchase should be a CRT monitor you can put on its side. LCDs are laggy.

[Casper<3]

Hi everyone
I should introduce myself right now, since I got SOOO hooked at shmups (escpecially cave) and I'm pretty sure that you'll see hundreds of my posts here from now on.
Soooo... It all started when I first saw the classic "HARDEST VIDEO GAME BOSS EVER" video two years ago at youtube, played a few free bullet hells, and totally quit from the shmup-universe, but I've always followed bullet hell news. A few months ago, I started playing again, when I found Ketsui and DOJ. Since then, I've played shmups in some form every single day. (all cave's iPhone releases, MAME at school etc...)
I just 1cc'd DOJ black label, and now working on Ketsui..... but goddamn that final boss always gets me, I've tried to suicide many many times in real life because of him.

The problem?
I ordered a cheap arcade-stick since it's the thing they're originally played with (that ugly logic 3 arcade stick, if anyone's interested)
the seller (ebay) said it's brand new, but after 3 weeks I asked him about it, he refund my payment and claimed that post lost it somehow (which I don't believe at all)

Sooo... should I buy an arcade stick at all? Is it really worth it, or should I go with the keyboard and/or PS-controller?

Also, a japanese xbox 360...
I MUST get one. But where? At what price? Used or not?

Thanks for reading, and sorry for bad english

If you're going to buy an arcade stick, please do not buy a cheap one. It makes a huge difference. Arcade sticks are like sushi, you pay for what you get. That being said, many players on this forum use controllers and some even keyboard. I would say if you can 1CC DOJ, whatever your method of control you're already using is suffice.

[captpain]

"newfag"

I would't say thats homophobia at all.

Newnigger

[Siren2011]

Newnigger

Half the time when the word nigger is used, it is said with humor and play (4 chan, etc). I call my black college friend a nigger all the time, and in return he calls me a dirty, plane highjacking middle easterner. (I am of Iranian and French Canadian descent, which is close enough) Nothing malicious is meant by these exchanges. Just two politically incorrect assholes jabbing each other with South Park-esque stereotypes. I really don't see how in this day and age people are still offended by trivial stuff like this. If it was meant to stir up hatred and resentment (ex: saying "all niggers smell and deserve to die in a fire") then yeah, I could see how that would be problematic enough to mess up a thread or two from staying on topic.

[captpain]

Newnigger

Half the time when the word nigger is used, it is said with humor and play (4 chan, etc). I call my black college friend a nigger all the time, and in return he calls me a dirty, plane highjacking middle easterner. (I am of Iranian and French Canadian descent, which is close enough) Nothing malicious is meant by these exchanges. Just two politically incorrect assholes jabbing each other with South Park-esque stereotypes. I really don't see how in this day and age people are still offended by trivial stuff like this. If it was meant to stir up hatred and resentment (ex: saying "all niggers smell and deserve to die in a fire") then yeah, I could see how that would be problematic enough to mess up a thread or two from staying on topic.

yeah i don't see how hate words being perpetuated could be bad, i too am a robot computer man

[captpain]

you're such a newchink, faggot

this thread should be locked or deleted

[Siren2011]

yeah i don't see how hate words being perpetuated could be bad, i too am a robot computer man.

USER NAME: CAPTPAIN HAS FIGURED OUT MY SECRET. ABORT MISSION. TIME FOR MY DAILY DOSE OF NUTS AND BOLTS TO EAT SO I CAN BE STRONG ENOUGH TO PROVIDE FOR MY NIGGER COMPUTER FAMILY. *Makes machine noises.

[damakable]

I was at a bar last night with an old friend from high school who was really drunk (it was his birthday) and he's an actor, and the sort of guy who likes to intentionally piss people off, get a reaction and so on. An asian-looking girl from another table overheard us and interrupted to wish him a happy birthday and he said "Who the fuck are you? And what the fuck is this ching chong shit?" The bar went silent for a moment. She didn't even have a noticeable accent. She was pretty cute, in fact. I have no idea what he was thinking.

Anyhow, the point is that sometimes what's playful and funny among friends can get you into trouble when you introduce yourself to strangers with it. I understand the irreverent 4chan / South Park attitude and that "guys rag on each other, it's all in good fun" but if I put my hand out for a stranger to shake and he says "what's up, faggot?" he's going to seem like kind of an asshole, or at least really immature.

I'm not saying introducing yourself as a newfag is the worst thing ever, and I get the intended meaning, but I still agree with Estebang that "This isn't goddamn 4chan."

...anyhow, shmups. Personally I recommend using an arcade stick as I feel it's a lot easier to quickly tap to move a few pixels at a time, compared to a gamepad or keyboard. I'm surprised so many people play with keyboards, even though when I first discovered DoDonPachi I eventually made it to the 2nd loop with one so I know you can make it work. Now that I've gotten used to using a stick I really notice a difference if I try playing with anything else, though.

[Gus]

If you can already play fine without an arcade stick then don't waste your cash.

[Shatterhand]

If you can already play fine without an arcade stick then don't waste your cash.

This. I spent my most of my life playing with joysticks and joypads. I bought a couple of arcade sticks, pretty good quality. They rock for fighting games. I begun playing shmups with them too, but with time I noticed my results were worse than when playing with a good dpad. So I got back to play with a dpad and was playing better again.

For fighting games, an arcade stick is a must (And is what really kills me when playing KoF XIII or Street Fighter 3 3rd strike on the 360, as I don't own an arcade stick for it) ,but for shmups I prefer a good dpad (I even find the horrid 360 dpad to be very acceptable to me)

[BeruBeru]

The problem is playing shmups with Sanwa joysticks which are the standard for fighting games instead of Seimitsu.
The difference is so huge, for me a seimitsu is good as a keyboard in terms of accuracy and not making unneeded movements, just more comfortable.

[Cagar]

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[Erppo]

I just 1cc'd DOJ black label, and now working on Ketsui.....

It's always nice to see more people getting into STGs.

This, but rephrased as "It's always nice to see more people getting into STGs and actually learning to play them".

Also there's nothing that would make keyboard any worse shmup control device than the other standard options. Learning a stick might still be worth it if you're planning to get a 360, unless you know you will be comfortable with a gamepad.

[Cagar]

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[Gus]

I can do pretty well in stuff like Futari 1.5 Ultra but DOJ and Ketsui are just 2 games the destroy me every time. I definitely have respect for anyone who can get that far in them.

[damakable]

Woah guys chill about the "newfag" already, I just wanted to say that I'm new and it's not 4chan-related at all, and I didn't mean to seem "funny" or racist. COME ON

...but dear lord how comfortable welcoming. I think I'll stick with keyboard for now..

Don't sweat it, just understand where people are coming from. Welcome in any case.

People are impressed that you've 1CCed DOJ because that game is freaking hard. I'm pretty sure it's ranked consistently as one of the hardest shmups around whenever the topic comes up. You're going to find an easier game like Espgaluda a walk in the park. For an additional challenge in DOJ, go for a 2-ALL or try Death Label.

Raizing games are also freaking hard but in a different way than Cave games. There are a lot of mechanics to keep in mind as you play Battle Garegga or APB. You need to keep rank down while still scoring well enough to get extends, which you need to lower rank in the primary way (dying). I'm no good at it, even though the brown and grey bullets don't bother me since I've made some effort to play them properly. But there's a reason Garegga and APB are #1 and #2 respectively this year on the board's Top 25 list.