The future of Cave

[Mero]

That G.rev game (Strania) got an arcade release last year, so they're still doing it(for now). Milestone look to be out of it unless they do someting soon I reckon. Others like Moss or Triangle Service ain't done much lately either.

[Kollision]

If you think about it...Cave has practically mastered making one specific type of game. They can only release so many before it gets kinda dull, and people lose interest..

This is pretty idiotic. Compared to most other devs, Cave has done an incredible job of making their games feel unique.

It's actually a matter of perception.
Gamers (even shmuppers) will not realize the differences unless they actually play the games. I used to think Ketsui was just another type of Dodonpachi until the day I sat down and played it.
I get lots of people saying that "shmups are all the same", especially the ones from Cave, but that's another can of worms I don't intend to open here.

[MJR]

I wonder how many people around here were reading game reviews back in 1986, as at the time some reviewers were writing off shoot'em ups as a "dying genre"...

I remember those arguments when crazy comets / mega-apocalypse came around.

[AntiFritz]

If you think about it...Cave has practically mastered making one specific type of game. They can only release so many before it gets kinda dull, and people lose interest..

This is pretty idiotic. Compared to most other devs, Cave has done an incredible job of making their games feel unique.

It's actually a matter of perception.
Gamers (even shmuppers) will not realize the differences unless they actually play the games. I used to think Ketsui was just another type of Dodonpachi until the day I sat down and played it.
I get lots of people saying that "shmups are all the same", especially the ones from Cave, but that's another can of worms I don't intend to open here.

Lol in my mind i always think ketsui is some kind of vague dodonpachi spinoff anyway (the whole ketsuipachi thing, the dodonpachi style voice clips in ketsui's sound test and the joint ketsui/doj soundtrack to me all make it seem rather fitting). It's also fairly similar to doj in visual theme imo.


Didn't realise strania got a arcade release, thought it was xbla only.

[Estebang]

Brace yourselves for the bombshell where Cave announces the closing of their arcade/console development divisions and the cancellation of Untitled Vita Shmup, guys. It's not going to be more than a few months off.

Also, the arcade release of Strania was on Nesica only--it didn't get a physical kit. I think almost all arcade games in Japan are like this now: it prevents piracy (Arc System was not happy about the pre-console Continuum Shift crack), and the publishers get a cut of the collections.

I'm amazed that Triangle Service and MOSS still exist, having not released a single game in about three years. I think MOSS has at least been making some money from Raiden merch.

[moh]

If you think about it...Cave has practically mastered making one specific type of game. They can only release so many before it gets kinda dull, and people lose interest..

This is pretty idiotic. Compared to most other devs, Cave has done an incredible job of making their games feel unique.

just sharing an opinion. no need to call me idiotic

[z0mbie90]

I'm amazed that Triangle Service and MOSS still exist, having not released a single game in about three years.

Would be cool to see Triangle Service make a new game, I'am one of the bunch that like Trizeal, it's a shame I haven't played Exzeal.
Just hope they make something so they don't die as a company, even if many people think the games are bad it still nice to see more companys that makes shmups.

[Zeron]

I'm amazed that Triangle Service and MOSS still exist, having not released a single game in about three years. I think MOSS has at least been making some money from Raiden merch.

MOSS made KoF SKYSTAGE that was out around 2010

[DrTrouserPlank]

http://www.dealspwn.com/cave-focus-soci ... cast-89102

Sounds like the end of any releases on proper hardware in the future then...

[Estebang]

Yeah, I forgot MOSS was involved with the KOF shooter. And it actually got a PSP-exclusive upgrade: NeoGeo Heroes - Ultimate Shooting.

Triangle Service is a genuine cockroach of the industry, though. Of their three console releases, two bombed (Trizeal ports) and one had middling success (Shooting 200X). None have been released outside Japan. I think their owner's talked about depriving himself of food to make shmups.

[AntiFritz]

I really hope they dont shelve ALL the shmups their working on. Its already bad enough that they haven't made a new vert in almost 4 years.

[MJR]

It totally baffles me why on earth they don't put their games on PSN.

[Estebang]

The only shmup Cave would be able to release on the PS3 is Deathsmiles IIX with its 16:9 mode (unless AK Shin has one I'm neglecting), and they've showed strong reservations against any further downloadable ports to console: Guwange was just another failed experiment, leading to Feveron XBLA's cancellation.

Also, it's not like PSN is a massively profitable platform, and G.Rev's last PS3 release sold something like 4000 copies. The problems inherent in marketing the games themselves cannot be alleviated simply by moving them to any platform: Steam, smartphones or otherwise.

I strongly doubt we'll ever see any more localized Games on Demand releases, too.

[Zeron]

Not to mention devkit costs for PS3 overall working with the system being harder and more time demanding. I can say with quite assurance that printing Blurays cost alot more than Dual Layer DVDs.

[MJR]

Super stardust HD did really very well at PSN, saved my employer big time. That's why I felt Cave could have a shot with that platform.

Then again, SSHD was published by Sony.

[Estebang]

I'm serious: Cave should make a Kickstarter page for a new shmup project, instead of futilely hoping to sell 300 Akai Katana PCBs. I just looked at the front page of Kickstarter and some guy with a shitty webcomic about dinosaurs got over $1000 to publish a book. If he can get that much, Cave's prospects are pretty damn good. How many of us here with the means wouldn't donate?

I guess there's the stigma of it looking unprofessional and desperate, but all it would take is for Cave to rebrand themselves as an "indie" developer to elicit mass sympathy. It's not like the term would be inaccurate.

EDIT: It's for US residents only, but there are apparently easy workarounds.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I really hope they dont shelve ALL the shmups their working on. Its already bad enough that they haven't made a new vert in almost 4 years.

Yeah same here, I still hope that they give us something like a HD Mushi 1 before the 360 dies. But I bet the nail in the coffin were the fact MS have put a stop to regoin free and their only western publisher didnt have great sales with DDP Resurrection.

I wonder how it gonna be next console gen, hopefully these new consoles will be more accommodating to higher priced digi download games. Something has to change because this generation is littered with the failures of B games like Child of Eden, El Shaddia etc.

Considering just how saturated XBLA / XBLIG has become, it makes me think MS isnt gonna bring these games over to the next xbox. If they do they'll have to promote new releases much more than they do atm, Plus shmup devs would be better off moving to the PS4, WiiU rather than compete with their own titles

[O. Van Bruce]

But Cave is a company created for making profit... if they don't get the expectations they want they will try to solve it with the easier and more secure way to do it... that is, creating other stuff.

[AntiFritz]

The only shmup Cave would be able to release on the PS3 is Deathsmiles IIX with its 16:9 mode (unless AK Shin has one I'm neglecting), and they've showed strong reservations against any further downloadable ports to console: Guwange was just another failed experiment, leading to Feveron XBLA's cancellation.

Also, it's not like PSN is a massively profitable platform, and G.Rev's last PS3 release sold something like 4000 copies. The problems inherent in marketing the games themselves cannot be alleviated simply by moving them to any platform: Steam, smartphones or otherwise.

I strongly doubt we'll ever see any more localized Games on Demand releases, too.

2 of akai katana shins 3 gameplay modes are 16:9 (including the titular shin mode). I think sony might also have a problem with entirely 2d games thought, but this might have just been in the past.

[Estebang]

Sony America dropped their anti-2D policy a while ago, and they had often granted exceptions to it (i.e. Guilty Gear). But the 16:9 requirement for retail PS3 games still holds a huge amount of stuff back.

[Zeron]

western publisher didnt have great sales with DDP Resurrection.

Source?

[Estebang]

DFK PAL dropped to half price in like, a month?

Deathsmiles US held on to its value for much longer, but it still wasn't profitable enough to make Aksys happy.

[Zeron]

DFK PAL dropped to half price in like, a month?

Thats every game here ever except CoD,BF,Square Enix RPG etc hell if it did so terrible why are we getting Akai Katana again? Not to mention DeathSmiles PAL pricetag collapsing just as quick.

[Estebang]

The people at Rising Star are big enough fanboys that they're willing to release a few games they know they're going to take a loss on. It's practically a humanitarian thing. Otherwise, they never would have considered releasing AKS.

[bcass]

Considering just how saturated XBLA / XBLIG has become, it makes me think MS isnt gonna bring these games over to the next xbox.

There's not a chance in hell that the 360 successor wont' be fully backwards compatible. Besides the fact that it would be suicide on Microsoft's part, the licensing/ownership situation is different this time round, compared to the transition from the original Xbox and the 360, where Microsoft simply weren't able to include the hardware in the new console to allow full backwards compatibility.

They've built a huge online games/dlc library that they're going to want to keep selling to new customers ad-infinitum.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Unfortunatly I dont need any sales figures to know that game was a flop. The price took a nosedive just a week or 2 after release. Eurogamer was the only major site to review it, there was very little buzz about the game both here and on YT. Theres a new copy in my local game store thats priced at a tenner over a month now

@Bcass yeah you have a point, I was thinking more along the lines of backwards compatability but having these games unavalable to buy on the marketplace except from a few choice titles just to give gamers something to play at launch. Kinda like how xbox classics are on the 360.

[bcass]

The people at Rising Star are big enough fanboys that they're willing to release a few games they know they're going to take a loss on. It's practically a humanitarian thing. Otherwise, they never would have considered releasing AKS.

I very much doubt they'd release a 2nd, let alone a 3rd title, if they hadn't made any money out of the 1st release.

[bcass]

I was thinking more along the lines of backwards compatability but having these games unavalable to buy on the marketplace except from a few choice titles just to give gamers something to play at launch. Kinda like how xbox classics are on the 360.

The only reason there's only a handful of original Xbox games for download for the 360 is because each game needed a custom (per-title) software emulator to get it running on the 360 hardware. Microsoft couldn't make the 360 hardware fully backwards compatible because of some licensing issues with the original GPU IIRC. It's one of the reasons why they were so eager to ditch the original hardware in favour of the 360. That won't happen next time as Microsoft own all the rights to their own hardware this time round.

[Acid_Rain]

I just found something at 360achievements.org…

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/game ... ievements/

does anybody know what this is?

[MR_Soren]

The people at Rising Star are big enough fanboys that they're willing to release a few games they know they're going to take a loss on. It's practically a humanitarian thing. Otherwise, they never would have considered releasing AKS.

I very much doubt they'd release a 2nd, let alone a 3rd title, if they hadn't made any money out of the 1st release.

Even fanboys can't convince their employers to deliberately lose money on a project. They had to make money on Deathsmiles, and hopefully they at least broke even on DDPR.