Century of the Self: Pyschoanalysis and videogame collecting

[Randorama]

In January China axed a mass number of reality TV shows. They had something like 140 shows, and brought it down to 40 - still far more than we have in the UK and they seem to be on every channel at the moment. They said they axed the shows due to their materialistic values. Best call they've made since joining the global economy in my book.
Although it still boggles the mind that a country can still be rich without dumbing down its people into a nation of spendthrift automatons. Try telling that to the corporate psycho analysts.

I don't get much why they axed 100 instead of 140. Maybe the remaining ones were based on East Germany old model, the one on which En "de mol" worked?

And on China... China may be rich, but the % of people below the line of poverty is still extremely high, especially in big cities. It must be said, local and national governments, in China, do plan to change this.

There is a great debate on how to change this. There are factions invoking the increase and mulling of desires to create more than one billion of ravenous consumers (the ones behind the big companies), and factions invoking the ability to fullfill everyone's needs (various groups). Among those, some even invoke that this can be done without destroying the country (the "right" faction of the Party).

I have been told that the Bilderberg group debates such topics, too, so I wouldn't celebrate and praise the asian man too much.

So far I've been happiest with Power of Nightmares. It is maybe the least bent on eschewing a particular philosophy and instead recapping a large chunk of our recent history--one that won't be coming to students textbooks anytime soon.

I agree, although I also found bizarre that Curtis did not dwelled much on Nazis, the modern makers of myth-making in politics as a "protection from Nightmares" agenda.

In general, I feel that in each of his documentaries there is some important bits missing, for possibly several reasons. I mean, c'mon, the templars promised to defend us christians from the Muslim menace, and the terror of adoring Allah instead of God. Is the post 9/11 method any real news?

I confess that the way he presented Game Theory (please see my other post) really left me skeptic about his way of discussing topics.

[hail good sir]

the

[dan76]

Eh, I think this is obviously a subjective thing. I'm kinda the opposite in a way. I sometimes regret going out of the house and seeing people or doing things because I usually don't enjoy myself; instead I wasted this time when I could have enjoyed my hobbies and gained knowledge relating to such. I dunno, I find such a thing as indulging in what I love much more satisfying. I find that people forget you over time and that most humans are largely forgettable over time. It's a waste in my eyes. I still regret not purchasing or attaining certain items from almost a decade ago. I guess I'm kinda gross.

I certainly understand this. Quite often I'll go out and wish I hadn't. Maybe it's an age thing where as when I was younger it was all about going out and a (small) part of me feels that it should still be. But it isn't. Though I'm certainly more likely to meet up with a friend if they bring along their dog - can't go wrong with animals. Balance is needed though, and being a hermit and staring at plastic figures of you favourite video game/tv show/film isn't healthy I suppose.

I've got most of Adam Curtis' films (thanks cinemageddon) and they're all of a certain level, very compelling. I thought All Watched Over was a bit unfocused - he made a few broad strokes that I didn't agree with (Dawkins) but still - it was very good.

With the original post I was reminded of something I read in one of those Alain de Botton books (he was probably quoting one of the big hitters, and I don't remember the exact words but - ) he says something along the lines of "what we lack emotionally we invest in objects".

[Skykid]

The only conclusion that I have so far is that the people who are oblivious with their lifetime prescription of happy pills are actually the smart ones.

I'd say they're the lucky ones. Ignorance is bliss and all that.

What's coming next? Will corporations eventually start to act like governments?

"Eventually?"

Corporations are already above the law and taxes. They also do more to control society than government. If you watch the aforementioned documentary it details how presidential candidates and governing parties in Britain use the corporate model to win votes because it's more effective than just saying "I'm going to do this for you."

And whoever Rupert Murdoch leans on gets the vote.

I don't get much why they axed 100 instead of 140. Maybe the remaining ones were based on East Germany old model, the one on which En "de mol" worked?

Because the government isn't walking the line of the old East Germany model.

When I was last in Shanghai I was stifled by the onset of both modernisation and westernisation. If I was a government I also wouldn't want to cultivate a nation of dummies with foreign commercialism - look what's happened to the values in our own societies.
The west instantly identifies any such actions as propagandist and communist rather than in terms of retaining cultural identity and interests.
140 reality shows is so far in excess of anything even we have on TV here in Britain it's obscene. We probably have fewer than 30 current series running here on a weekly basis and it's already overbearing.

And on China... China may be rich, but the % of people below the line of poverty is still extremely high, especially in big cities. It must be said, local and national governments, in China, do plan to change this.

Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say.
The country has enjoyed the highest global increase in national wages over the last 3 years rising by 13%, and is expected to reach 20% this year.

[ZacharyB]

What's coming next? Will corporations eventually start to act like governments?

"Eventually?"

Corporations are already above the law and taxes. They also do more to control society than government. If you watch the aforementioned documentary it details how presidential candidates and governing parties in Britain use the corporate model to win votes because it's more effective than just saying "I'm going to do this for you."

Oh, no, no, I meant, proper governments. Helping society becoming more integrated and streamlined, like a machine. ...Organizations, that's what I meant.

[hail good sir]

from

[Skykid]

Watched part 1 and a lot of part 4 and just.... fuck. I'd say the west is doomed but apparently we're already way past that. As far as the game collecting, I'd say you most definitely do it for the sense of self stuff and things like this commercial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pblj3JHF-Jo fits right in the documentary, but for after market stuff I can't really see the connection.

What happened to parts 2 and 3! Find the time, it's an interesting picture.

Oh, no, no, I meant, proper governments. Helping society becoming more integrated and streamlined, like a machine. ...Organizations, that's what I meant.

Well, they sort of do that now, albeit in a completely self-serving capacity. Profit before people.

[xbl0x180]

I dunno, I don't really think about VG collecting hobbies as materialistic, although at a base level it is. It's the acquisition of material goods that you feel you need for a sense of well-being. That's not really any different from girl A buying a Prada handbag because it has the name Prada on it, or welfare guy B buying a Little Wayne album because it promotes a gangster culture lifestyle he wants to feel part of.

Whether we like it or not, we've all been programmed to hold some value in material possessions, the only difference is if I buy game X from you on the trading forum, you get my money, I get my game, and the original manufacturer gets zip.

That's a kind of anti-consumerism.

The original manufacturer already got theirs when the stuff was bought new. If the manufacturer indeed would get zip, then the second-hand item wouldn't exist; that you bought someone else's used stuff doesn't break the consumerist cycle. Would you say that if the item only existed new and from the manufacturer, then you'd buy it new from the manufacturer (e.g., "DLC")? I definitely see video game collecting/consuming as part of the oblivious, consumerist/materialistic tendencies that 99.999% of people possess

[Obiwanshinobi]

Apologies for derailment.

Best call they've made since joining the global economy in my book, although it still boggles the mind that a country can still be rich without dumbing down its people into a nation of spendthrift automatons.

Off topic, but from what I read in some colour magazine, Chinese authorities badly want the people to start spending dough instead of saving up as the economy can't be perpetually fueled by export.

And on China... China may be rich, but the % of people below the line of poverty is still extremely high, especially in big cities. It must be said, local and national governments, in China, do plan to change this.

Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say.
The country has enjoyed the highest global increase in national wages over the last 3 years rising by 13%, and is expected to reach 20% this year.

Rome is a fitting analogy as China is getting rich largely thanks to slave labour. You should see some Chinese factories all over the world (in the so called "special economic zones"), all Asian staff (perhaps not exclusively Chinese) locked in, working 12 hours shifts seven days a week, which can be rightfully called "labour camps". That those people probably sold themselves into slavery to escape starvation isn't saying much considering they must have come from way worse shitholes.
China does not see using people as robots unbecoming.

[scrilla4rella]

I need to check out this series. It's crazy how folks like us ascribe so much value to something like a spine card or an issue of Retro Gamer while the general public just sees printed paper.

The discusion brings up memories of when I was 16 and would occasionally look up at my game shelf and space out. At some point I came to the realization that I was buying games more quicly than I could complete them. I specifically remember looking at my PSOne memory cards full of save files and thinking, "what's the end game to all of this? Are these possessions really making me more happy?" A lot of this is what lead me to focus more heavily on twitch games and less on RPGs. I still have these shallow existential crises once in awhile but they never last for too long. More pressing problems usually come up.

I never stopped buying and playing games but I think it's important to be conscious of the fact that many of us do get some consumer therapy out of buying games and while it's fucked up there are worse vices out there.

Nowadays I justify my rampant consumerism (see the Cool stuff I just bought thread) by forgoing the purchase of new clothes and booze. I may look homeless in a very fashionable city but my Famicom collection it the shit.

[Skykid]

I need to check out this series. It's crazy how folks like us ascribe so much value to something like a spine card or an issue of Retro Gamer while the general public just sees printed paper.

Spine cards yes, Retro Gamer no. Why would anyone place value in that rag, lol?

Off topic, but from what I read in some colour magazine, Chinese authorities badly want the people to start spending dough instead of saving up as the economy can't be perpetually fueled by export.

Same as any country's economic requirements. I just outlined that culling materialistic television doesn't aid spending.

Rome is a fitting analogy as China is getting rich largely thanks to slave labour. You should see some Chinese factories all over the world (in the so called "special economic zones"), all Asian staff (perhaps not exclusively Chinese) locked in, working 12 hours shifts seven days a week, which can be rightfully called "labour camps". That those people probably sold themselves into slavery to escape starvation isn't saying much considering they must have come from way worse shitholes.
China does not see using people as robots unbecoming.

And neither does Nike.

The west invented slave labour and workforce exploitation in impoverished countries and relies on it to this day. At least now the slaves feed their own economy and at the same time their own interests, instead of some whitey in a suit.

Lesser of two evils.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The west invented slave labour and workforce exploitation in impoverished countries and relies on it to this day.

Chinese and North Korean workers on the leash can be found in countries better developed than China, including the USA (if American Samoa counts).

At least now the slaves feed their own economy and at the same time their own interests, instead of some whitey in a suit.

By this logic uncle Stalin sent millions of people to Siberia for their own good. Nice.
Whitey in a suit still gets his share. Chinese authorities and all the scum sucking up to them get their share. You get to buy cheap stuff. The workers get fucked all the same.
Didn't want to hijack the thread, but when somebody brings up China as an example of a country getting anywhere but nowhere with its way of doing things, I start ranting in my head and it needs to get out.

[Skykid]

Didn't want to hijack the thread, but when somebody brings up China as an example of a country getting anywhere but nowhere with its way of doing things, I start ranting in my head and it needs to get out.

That's no probs dude, glad you got it off your chest.

[Randorama]

Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say.
The country has enjoyed the highest global increase in national wages over the last 3 years rising by 13%, and is expected to reach 20% this year.

They started from zero. So, %'s mean jack if one does not look at the yuen.

A good analysis of the situation, from some friends of mine, is here:

http://www.ecfr.eu/page/-/China_Analysi ... er2011.pdf

And what Obiwanshinobi says is true. China, as Korea and Japan, has a suicide rate of people being overworked (at home, nevermind abroad) that is akin to that of a standard war. Among other things.

I won't add more because on this topic I'd end up being too publicly mean, aside derailing too much your own topic, which was about something else, in case you forgot...

And then this:

The west invented slave labour and workforce exploitation in impoverished countries and relies on it to this day. At least now the slaves feed their own economy and at the same time their own interests, instead of some whitey in a suit

This is non-sense. Slavery exists since human beings exist. I won't expand on this point because it's a bit too basic (e.g. stuff I studied in seventh grade, state-run school...).

[Skykid]

I won't add more because on this topic I'd end up being too publicly mean, aside derailing too much your own topic, which was about something else, in case you forgot...

No, I don't want to derail the topic at all if possible. The comment in question was prominent only because of the way the documentary outlined the perpetuating of consumerism through materialistic values, the like of which is common in reality television.

That was all.

As for the Adam Curtis stuff, I got the rest but where to start? Which one is the best to lead on from Century of the Self, any suggestions?

[Skykid]

In the absence of a reply I've just gone through The Power of Nightmares.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry really.

I knew this world was totally fucked, now I just have a little more understanding as to why.

[JBC]

It's crazy how folks like us ascribe so much value to something like a spine card or an issue of Retro Gamer while the general public just sees printed paper.

Spine cards yes, Retro Gamer no. Why would anyone place value in that rag, lol?

Are you kidding? Retro Gamer is the best thing ever. Of course this is coming from an American, all our gaming pubs are shit. Still, it's a beautiful magazine and serves to keep the memory of alot of the classics alive. I feel what scrilla is saying here, when I see an issue of Retro Gamer sitting beside our trashy American zines it shines like a pot of gold. It costs about as much too, $128 for a subscription over here if I remember correctly. Luckily they've made it available on the cheap for iOS devices if you have one.

Forgive me for being a perfect example of what this thread is all about.

[drauch]

On Retrogamer: Yeah, it's a nice magazine, but it's way too expensive, often boring, and they screw up a lot of facts. This is coming from a subscribed member, even. It's a pretty magazine, but I don't think I'll subscribe for that ridiculous price ever again.

[Skykid]

they screw up a lot of facts.

OT quickly: this is my main problem with the magazine. The facts are incoherent and often plain wrong. They go around plagiarising information from forums and websites to create articles. I have friends who have had online articles ripped off wholesale by RG - errors and all.

Back OT,

That fucking documentary.

I feel like I should make an apology on behalf of United States and British Governments to the worlds Muslim populations for outright persecution, and to the Russians for all that bad comedy during the Cold War era. I would also append that apology with one directed at the western voters for being made to live in a state of false alarm for the last 12 years, simply to serve a neo-con agenda.

It's actually troubling to think that the state of global politics is nothing more than badly behaved school kids in a yard throwing stones at each other, who sometimes lie and say someone else threw a brick when they didn't.

[mrsmiley381]

It's actually troubling to think that the state of global politics is nothing more than badly behaved school kids in a yard throwing stones at each other, who sometimes lie and say someone else threw a brick when they didn't.

I think that's how Vietnam got started with that whole Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Mr. America ran into someone else's yard, got a rock thrown at him, then cried about it and said he never went in the yard. I'm sure the whole War on Terror is the same, but I know so little about the subject and I don't even know what resources are legitimate.

Closer to the topic on-hand, my father works retail in a furniture store. The day after Christmas they were swamped by custoemrs. He even told me, "The deals aren't even that good! They line up like sheep! With all these people you'd think we were giving all this stuff away!"

The same man did not realize that for years those king size candy bars he was feeding me were making me fat. He also tries to argue with me about how winning the lottery works and how playing the lottery is totally a smart move.

When I "waste" money on a video game I hardly care any more. I could be spending it a hell of a lot more unwisely, on candy bars or lottery tickets. At the end of the day, I don't turn into a TV-watching vegetable. I suppose that's good enough for me.

[Skykid]

I'm sure the whole War on Terror is the same, but I know so little about the subject and I don't even know what resources are legitimate.

If you're interested, The Power of Nightmares is a great way to start. If anyone wants one of these docus, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

All that Al-Quaeda bullcrap - even the name was a western concoction - you just knew it was hokey as hell. A "terror network in 60 locations around the world". Pfft, more like 2 radical islamists on a farm who had a handful of followers and a couple of goats. I never quite knew the details as to Osama Bin Laden's fabrication as the new face of evil, and I'm surprised that a lot of the revealing stuff in Curtis' documentaries were allowed to fly, especially in 2004. Safe to say the War on Terror was as farcical as many secretly suspected.

It's good stuff. I need to figure out what to watch next now.

[Siren2011]

The only conclusion that I have so far is that the people who are oblivious with their lifetime prescription of happy pills are actually the smart ones.

I'd say they're the lucky ones. Ignorance is bliss and all that.

Um. How does altering your brain chemistry effect your intelligence negatively? I used to think it did as well, but then I realized how ridiculously pretentious I sounded. If anything, it helps you wrap your head around things easier and quicker than when that person was in a depressive state. Though I HAVE read articles written by shunned M.D.s who claim that the effects of the pills we take cause new problems that can easily be passed onto another generation. We ignore it now, but these problems will multiply drastically, and our descendants centuries down the line will suffer as a weak, highly pill-dependent race of humans or some crap. Who knows? Maybe he's on to something. Even if he is, that has nothing to do with intelligence.

If you really have a detailed answer for my question I'm all for accepting your argument granted it makes sense. But until then, I have to wonder where you got that silly idea.

Really sorry for the thread derail, just had to address that.

[hail good sir]

CH-CHICK POW

[Skykid]

@skykid If you want more depressing stuff, Inside Job lays out the bank shenanigans that have been going on pretty well, if you haven't seen it. It felt a bit biased from a pure documentary standpoint though.

Watched it about a month ago. It was good, although I've seen tons of stuff about the economic crisis. The Flaw was good too.

I'm not sure how depressing I find revealing documentaries tbh, I think most people would find anything enlightening to be a positive? Well I hope they would anyway.

[hail good sir]

nine

[Michaelm]

I've watched it yesterday and that prick Edward Bernays jumped to the top of my list of most evil persons of the last century.
That guy ruined the lives of all the generations after him, simply unbelievable.
It also made it clear that public relations simply means lying beyond belief or just talking crap.
I can only hope this documentary opens the eyes of the people and they stop taking all the crap the mainstream media wants them to believe.

[Skykid]

I've watched it yesterday and that prick Edward Bernays jumped to the top of my list of most evil persons of the last century.
That guy ruined the lives of all the generations after him, simply unbelievable.
It also made it clear that public relations simply means lying beyond belief or just talking crap.
I can only hope this documentary opens the eyes of the people and they stop taking all the crap the mainstream media wants them to believe.

Fantastic, glad another one took the time. It's a fascinating watch isn't it? To see how they invented the media prison we exist in today.

I don't consider Bernays to be the personification of evil, he just happened to be a brilliant business mind who attempted to use psycho analytical practices to make money and stumbled on the most incredible results. He is responsible for dumbing down generation upon generation of human being until we've got to the sort of mental brand-driven stew that we have today, but I more blame government for failure to regulate it. Hell, the governments basically joined in, which is why they have absolutely zero credibility as a trustworthy body.

On the back of that Michaelm, I urge you to watch Curtis's Power of Nightmares - it's equally mind blowing and in a similar vein. I can send it to you if you want, just PM me.

[Michaelm]

I don't consider Bernays to be the personification of evil, he just happened to be a brilliant business mind who attempted to use psycho analytical practices to make money and stumbled on the most incredible results.

We see that totally different then.
He helped in overthrowing Guatemala and for that alone he deserved to be hanged.
I'm sure I can find the power of nightmares online somewhere.
But the war on democracy is a must see too.

[Skykid]

I don't consider Bernays to be the personification of evil, he just happened to be a brilliant business mind who attempted to use psycho analytical practices to make money and stumbled on the most incredible results.

We see that totally different then.
He helped in overthrowing Guatemala and for that alone he deserved to be hanged.
I'm sure I can find the power of nightmares online somewhere.
But the war on democracy is a must see too.

Well he was an asshole, I suppose I meant originating the practice of using psycho analysis in propaganda terms wasn't an inherently evil act.