Earthquake has hit Japan

[GaijinPunch]

The funny thing is, that even though there are no nuclear reactors online in Japan, there is no power shortage. The reason for it is, that Japan never needed nuclear reactors for energy. In fact, nobody needs them for energy. If there wouldn't be such a profitable market for uranium and weapon-plutonium (4 million USD per kg!), nobody would care shit about building nuclear power plants. NPPs are plutonium breeding facilities - sold to the public as power plants.

I would say every sentence in that comment is wrong.

I would agree -- starting with the first one: "no power shortage." What the fuck? They made the outskirts of Tokyo go through rolling blackouts of 3 hours immediately following 3/11 b/c their wasn't enough power, and the city was dangerously dark for months (some places even now) to save electricity. What a tit.

[Ex-Cyber]

Oh and the Mayak Disaster, the one nobody knows about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbR00_W4gEo
4X the radionuclide release of Chernobyl (over a longer period).

Interesting video, surprised the news media in generally never mentioned this incident during the events taking place in Japan. I will forever have a second opinion about the nuclear power industry in general.

The whole energy industry feels like a criminal enterprise sometimes. Almost every major fuel/technology seems to have at least a few skeletons in its closet.

[GaijinPunch]

The whole energy industry feels like a criminal enterprise sometimes. Almost every major fuel/technology seems to have at least a few skeletons in its closet.

Not to mention the odd used ass-condom or two.

[rancor]

Today was the first time I had heard the pre-earthquake sirens in a while... Everyones phones here in the office were wailing, then about 30 seconds later a 4.8 hit. In that 30 seconds I thought "oh shit - here comes 3/11 pt. 2..."
Anyhow, no big deal today - I'm just wondering how they actually knew this one was coming..

edit - just updated to 5.8

[GaijinPunch]

P-waves
Shit --- 5.8? It was in Fukushima, for sure... at least that's what Yahoo said. The markets got a little lively for a while. That's how I knew about it. Didn't feel it at all.

[rancor]

Interesting.. Had to check out P-waves. Well - I don't know what the magnitude was.. The news said 4.8, then 5.8, but this site says it was only 3.8..

http://www.jma.go.jp/en/quake/

[GaijinPunch]

The thing about the P-Waves is, if I understand correctly, they are useless if you are very close to a huge Earthquake. So 8.0+ in Tokyo... you're at the mercy of your deity of choice, or of course, luck.

[greg]

OK, so we had a 5+ magnitude earthquake in Yamanashi-ken on Saturday, near Mt. Fuji. I have a job interview in Fuji City on Monday for a better-paying job working directly for the city's BOE and it will be more stable and has shakai hoken and all that.

So my wife's been talking with her family and apparently the news is saying that they're expecting another huge-ass earthquake somewhere in Shizuoka-ken, and that a tsunami may wipe out Fuji City. The city is proud of their tall sea wall to protect them from such, but my wife says that these places are due for a huge earthquake every 150 years, and Shizuoka-ken is overdue. She says that they were predicting a big earthquake to hit the Tohoku area (Sendai) and they were right, so that means that if they predict the same for the Tokaido area (Shizuoka), it's bound to happen?

This is the same country in which the Mexican restaurants were empty after the swine flu scare because they thought they'd get sick from eating Mexican food (or food prepared by alleged Mexicans). Is this a nation of worrywarts, or is there some science to this? What are the odds of another ginormous tsunami hitting Japan so soon after the Sendai disaster from last year? Am I batshit insane for considering taking a job in that area? What does the color blue taste like? Opinions, educated or otherwise, are welcome.

EDIT: here's an article.

[NTSC-J]

Japan is definitely a worry-wort nation, but sometimes it's for the best. I like a town that hears about some weird-looking old guy wandering around then sends out a bulletin to all neighboring prefectures to watch out. It's a shame then that so many other big problems go ignored, but let's not go there.

As for moving to the coast, I personally wouldn't put it on my list of goals in life, but I also wouldn't turn down a job because of it. Earthquakes happen so often here, I don't think there's a way around it. In Saku you're probably better off since we're pretty high up and they're relatively mild here compared to Tokyo. When I go down there on the weekends I usually get woken up every morning by a nice jostling.

[GaijinPunch]

So my wife's been talking with her family and apparently the news is saying that they're expecting another huge-ass earthquake somewhere in Shizuoka-ken, and that a tsunami may wipe out Fuji City. The city is proud of their tall sea wall to protect them from such, but my wife says that these places are due for a huge earthquake every 150 years, and Shizuoka-ken is overdue. She says that they were predicting a big earthquake to hit the Tohoku area (Sendai) and they were right, so that means that if they predict the same for the Tokaido area (Shizuoka), it's bound to happen?

Well, to make her feel better, for a decade they've been saying Tokyo is over due. As of 2010 I believe the probability was 70% in the next 30 years of a 7.0+. That has now been adjusted to 70% in the next 4 years. Of course, there may not be one for ages.... but there probably will be. We know it's just a matter of time (and pressure as it were).

At some point, living in Japan, you're going to have to stop dodging Earthquakes (or simply move to another country). Just be smart. Stock up on water (for fucks sake, do this!), toilet paper, and other things you can't live w/o. Keep an Earthquake kit. Have a plan w/ your family -- know where your kids local hinanjo is in case there's an EQ. Have a bicycle b/c you ain't getting around on train/car if there's an Earthquake even remotely close.

From what I understand, Kobe was a place with very little seismic activity. We saw how well that worked out.

[burgerkingdiamond]

So apparently Japan has totally come off nuclear power

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/07/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_c1

I don't see how they can possibly survive like that. To make up for 30% of their power needs with additional fossil fuel would have to really fuck their economy.

[rancor]

yeah - I predict massive blackouts this summer.. Luckily I wont be here for about 2 months.

.. I was seeing the anti-nuclear protesters at big stations up until a few months ago, and I always wanted to ask them - OK - I get it.. No nukes - thats fine. But whats the alternative? Whats your plan for providing Japan with its 30% power deficit? Are you really prepared to do without? I guess we'll see in the middle of August when the weather is more sauna-like and the old people start dropping due to heat stroke..

[GaijinPunch]

Well, this opens the door for philosophy majors, as they can now tackle that age old question "can you fuck something that's totally fucked already?"

[moozooh]

Well, it's understandable considering that Japan's population density is very high and they really can't afford losing even more territory to more unforeseen yet very likely disasters. But what they really should be doing instead, imo, is looking into safer fission (thorium?) and controlled fusion rather than abolishing this source of energy completely.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

People are very short-sighted when it comes to acceptable risk factors. Plane crashes? "OH GOD FLYING IS UNSAFE!1!!1one". Nuclear Plant has a meltdown? "NUCLEAR POWER IS EVIL!!11one". Unfortunately, generating power is tricky, especially when you have a whole buttload of people who need it. wind turbines aren't completely free from side effects (although local warming probably won't seriously disrupt ecosystems). And then there's coal generated power, which has its own set of pollution issues (including radioactivity, oddly enough).

Problem is that the quake was a 9.0 magnitude; that's pretty fucking enormous and will potentially wreck anything, not to mention the tsunami that wiped out the cooling systems was twice as tall as the ones the plant was designed to withstand (oops). It also sounds like they'd downplayed the risks too much so everyone was convinced it was 100% safe, and weren't adequately prepared for how to deal with a disaster on such a scale.

I still think nuclear power is very safe when it's properly maintained, but it does have a potential risk factor for meltdowns it's easy for the public to ignore/forget about. Then again, if the people running it are completely incompetent it's pretty much a disaster waiting to happen (like with Chernobyl where they basically paid no attention to proper safety when they ran the experiment that led to the explosion) and I can't blame people for not wanting to live near a reactor.

It's worth mentioning that fusion power (rather than fission used in today's power plants), while still technically nuclear, would be even safer. It's still in development, but once we get around to developing the technology for nuclear fusion power plants, it would be fucking awesome for electrical generation.

[burgerkingdiamond]

It does seem short sighted. They should be looking at updating old plants and putting in safety measures to protect against future disasters. If nuclear only made up 10% or so of the total power supply it wouldn't seem so bad, but isn't Japan economy already in bad enough shape? Can they afford it?

This seems like an emotional reaction instead of a rational one.

[neorichieb1971]

Capitalism is where I put the blame for the slow up take on alternative fuels. A few earthquakes and Tsunami's haven't even been able to bend peoples minds away from Capitalist ambition rather than just ambition on its own.

The people at the top are beginning to be more stupid than ever.

[rancor]

This seems like an emotional reaction instead of a rational one.

Exactly. But unfortunately that seems to be how you appeal to the masses and drive them to action - no matter the country or culture.

[sven666]

I for one applaud the decision, I agree the reasoning is a little whack but the ends sometimes justify the means.

sure nuclear power can be relatively safe and is by far the most efficient but the game here isnt about safety or efficiency, its about money and in that case theres always someone willing to cut another corner for a slice of the pie, especially in well developed countries (like japan and.. sweden, which currently has one of the most hopelessly outdated nuclearplants in the world operating).

In my fairytale world we use renewable and clean sources of energy and in return keep the ridiculous overconsumerism to a minimum. (also, people care about eachother)

[BareKnuckleRoo]

This seems like an emotional reaction instead of a rational one.

Exactly. But unfortunately that seems to be how you appeal to the masses and drive them to action - no matter the country or culture.

To be fair, if I had just been hit by a quake, a tsunami and a meltdown all at once, I'd almost certainly be emotionally affected by it too. I have less issue with the reaction of protesters as a result of the aftermath and more with the prevailing attitude/myth that nuclear power is absolutely safe and ignoring the potential for a disaster ("it could never happen to us!"). If you get to thinking that anything is 100% safe, nothing could ever go wrong, etc, people get complacent and safety procedures turn to shit.

[burgerkingdiamond]

This seems like an emotional reaction instead of a rational one.

Exactly. But unfortunately that seems to be how you appeal to the masses and drive them to action - no matter the country or culture.

To be fair, if I had just been hit by a quake, a tsunami and a meltdown all at once, I'd almost certainly be emotionally affected by it too. I have less issue with the reaction of protesters as a result of the aftermath and more with the prevailing attitude/myth that nuclear power is absolutely safe and ignoring the potential for a disaster ("it could never happen to us!"). If you get to thinking that anything is 100% safe, nothing could ever go wrong, etc, people get complacent and safety procedures turn to shit.

Sure, I understand the emotional reaction given the circumstances. But I don't think that importing all that oil will be good for them in the long run.

[rancor]

But I don't think that importing all that oil will be good for them in the long run.

Not only that, but with the supposed looming world energy crisis, whats going to happen when they're denied their oil.. again.

[neorichieb1971]

The governments should do a trial period of just 3 days where oil is not allowed to be used.

Then we would see some action. Capitalism is breaking our future, not making it. Surely everyone can see that by now.

[DEL]

Mr burgerkingdiamond - Your link says the last plant is shutting down for maintenance. This is far from Japan actually decommissioning all their nuclear plants. http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/07/world ... ?hpt=hp_c1
I hope it will happen, but I don't believe it has yet.

Nuclear power plants create material that is lethal for up to 500,000 years. It irradiates millions of gallons of water. It uses fossil fuels. It only took 1 reactor (not a whole plant) to bankrupt Russia -18 billion dollars cleanup cost. Not to mention poisoning the whole Northern hemisphere.
A nuclear bomb only contains about 8kg of plutonium. Quote; "The average nuclear reactor contains about 325 kilograms of plutonium within its uranium fuel." So when a core melts down and explodes, you have far larger releases of radionuclides in the form of hot particles. After a nuclear reactor accident like Fukushima, the danger is not in the measurable radiation in the air, the danger is in ingesting these hot particles (food, water, milk).

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It uses fossil fuels.

lolwut

[burgerkingdiamond]

Over the weekend, Japan's last remaining nuclear reactor shut down for regular maintenance. In the wake of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster, reactors have not been allowed back on. Japan is now the first major economy to see the modern era without nuclear power.

reading comprehension is key.

[ED-057]

Gotta give `em credit for the reductions in energy usage that they have accomplished. But it`s still not enough, and burning a bunch of extra oil and gas is problematic even in the short term. Personally I think anti-nuke protestors should STFU and if they have all this extra time on their hands how about helping to rebuild the tsunami/quake-damaged areas instead of gloating. Or maybe they could pool their collective resources and actually build the superior energy source that they seem to think must exist.

[GaijinPunch]

There are risks with everything. This was an old, old plant (scheduled for decommission even) so saying it's safety was not up to snuff is, of course, and understatement.

As stated before, yes, the Japanese economy is in shambles even though they still are pretending it is not. The lifestyle here is still very affluent and I would say the middle class here probably has a cleaner, but less satisfactory life than most other developed countries.

My take on it is that the move was not done for the right reasons. It's a knee-jerk. However, the powers that be have proven they are useless when the shit hits the fan so I can't say that I'm sad about the decision to pull the plug. I would rather see a stronger investment in the future (better fission safety and fusion) than just saying, "we suck, better gimp ourselves".

We can point the finger at capitalism all we want, but at the end of the day, the consumers themselves are the ones that dictate this. If we ditch nuclear one of two options happens: pay more money, or live in the dark. Clearly, it's worth it to some people.

So now, Japanese parliament will bicker about this bullshit for fucking ever, and ignore social problems that really matter. Rumor has it parental kidnapping is (big surprise!) now on the back burner b/c everyone is fingering each other over whether or not to increase consumption tax to pay for all of the aforementioned bullshit.

Gotta give `em credit for the reductions in energy usage that they have accomplished.

Yes, but you still must make fun of them for being wasteful in other areas:
-I have to punch the dip shits at the counter for individually wrapping EVERY fucking item I buy. I buy a jar of pickles and some shops (higher end ones) will wrap that shit in foam so it doesn't break when I get home.
-Man hours in business are awful... people sitting around a lot
-Similar to above, there are thousands of taxis on the street at any time... driving around... burning fuel... getting in the way... trying to kill me.

[1up]

with the decline in population all of those problems will go away in a couple of decades.

Less people to use power. Only 100's of Taxis in the streets trying to kill you.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Personally I think something akin to the Euro super grid would be a good solution, even if Japan keeps running its own nuclear they can atleast shut them down if they think a quake is due, or as a temp solution till Japan can safely produce its own energy.