Issues with CGA2VGA scaler

[mrkotfw]

Everything works perfectly.


Moral of story: Do NOT use power coming from the PlayStation! Just use it straight from the CGA2VGA PCB!



Thank you everyone for your patience

[fagin]

[anticipating]

Regarding issues with this device, I get a lot of screen tearing in 480 mode with RGB input, which I have read elsewhere is a known issue. Does everyone get this? And is everyone just happy to live with it? I find it really distracting. (I need to use 480 mode for the SLG's scanlines to look good). Interested to hear people's opinions.

[mrkotfw]

Regarding issues with this device, I get a lot of screen tearing in 480 mode with RGB input, which I have read elsewhere is a known issue. Does everyone get this? And is everyone just happy to live with it? I find it really distracting. (I need to use 480 mode for the SLG's scanlines to look good). Interested to hear people's opinions.

Pictures and videos would be nice.

Knowing what you're using would also be helpful.

[anticipating]

Pictures and videos would be nice.

Knowing what you're using would also be helpful.

Here's an example. Video quality isn't good but you should get the idea of what's happening. You can see the tearing at 0:03 0:13 0:44 and 0:54. It happens about every 10-20 seconds and only when moving. Also, I was wrong before, it happens on all scaler resolutions.

This is happening on psx and ps2 hardware, setup RGB scart out==>sync strike==>scaler==>SLG==>LCD monitor. the example doesn't have the SLG on but it's the same situation either way. I've tried different tvs, scart cables (one official, one non offical) different vga connections and it's always there. So, doesn't everyone experience this?

Any advice appreciated. I'm too OCD to play anything like this. Many thanks.

[fagin]

I assume these are not NTSC consoles and games being used?

[anticipating]

I assume these are not NTSC consoles and games being used?

import NTSC games on modded PAL hardware... does that cause issues?

[fagin]

Not sure whether it's a refresh issue. I don't remember having any such issues with this scaler and my NTSC consoles and NTSC games.

[anticipating]

Not sure whether it's a refresh issue. I don't remember having any such issues with this scaler and my NTSC consoles and NTSC games.

I think you might be right about it being a refresh issue. I just tested Final Fantasy IV PAL and then NTSC, and only NTSC has the screen tearing issues. The PAL version seems okay... only slow, squashed and ugly (which is of course why I shy away from playing PAL games). Hmmmm.

Edit: Well, I think that's definitely the issue, I just tested a couple of PAL60 capable ps2 games in 50hz and 60hz modes and only the 60hz modes had the screen tearing. I wonder if it is the sync strike or the scaler that doesn't like it? It's definitely not the consoles themselves because they work fine with the RGB scart straight into the TV, but of course theres no scanlines that way.

[fagin]

It won't be the sync strike.

[anticipating]

It won't be the sync strike.

K... thanks. So, the choice is to invest in NTSC consoles or upgrade to a better scaler? Things are starting to get expensive either way :/

[anticipating]

Not sure whether it's a refresh issue. I don't remember having any such issues with this scaler and my NTSC consoles and NTSC games.

Update on this issue, imported an NTSC ps2 and no difference, exactly the same problem on NTSC games. Anyone have any ideas or having the same problem?

Thanks

[fagin]

It appears to be a scaler issue.... someone else from YT has PM'd me with the same issue.

Some framerate conversion must be going on.

[Beaps]

This is the same issue I got.

This picture issue is happening now to all my consoles regardless or region. All of them are hooked up via RGB scart.

I also have an homemade sync strike and wondering if I purchase one from arcadeforge this will resolve the matter.

[lcmt]

Beaps - what consoles have you tried that have the issue?

I too have this screen tearing on my SNES when running SCART RGB through a Sync Strike into a CGA2VGA scaler. It's very noticeable when playing almost all of my games. Quickest way I check it is to run through a platformer like the Mario All-Stars games or Donkey Kong Country, and when running across screen the game will periodically tear with a resulting skip in the playback - it does seem like some sort of framerate issue as fagin suggested. I've tried this on numerous displays (1 plasma tv and 2 lcd monitors - these are U.S. displays) with the same result.

This issue is almost nonexistent when I run the SNES through one of those SCART to YUV Component boxes from eBay, and then component into the CGA2VGA scaler instead. Unfortunately, the image quality from the SCART to YUV suffers compared to the SCART->Dsub15 through the Sync Strike (which looks great apart from the tearing). On the SCART->YUV, some patches of the screen are blurry, etc., but it is playable (the tearing/stutter is only very slight so not noticeable a lot of the time). I've used two different SCART cables (both are non-Japanese SCART for use with US SNES - one bought from Play-Asia, the other was a "raw sync" one from Retro on ebay) to try this stuff out, and the result is the same.

I don't have any other vintage systems to test out (other than a ps1 but I'm not planning on buying a SCART cable to try it - and based on the problems noted in this thread, likely going to see the same result). I've heard Genesis (model 2 at least) likewise has the problem, while Saturn does not.

I don't have any issues when playing modern systems through the CGA2VGA scaler (i.e. xbox360 at 640x480 VGA and then through the scaler does not have this problem at all). Obviously there's no need to run a 360 through the scaler, but I was doing that when I needed to share a single VGA SLG3000 chain (the SNES was on the scaler's component input, and 360 on the Dsub15 input), so it worked as a passthrough.

Unless I've done something wrong with the setup of these devices (and I have fiddled around with the various scaler menu settings to no avail), I'm guessing this may just be one of the limitations of hardware that doesn't cost what a DVDO Edge/etc. or XRGB does. Of course, that's coming from someone who has only a basic knowledge of the tech (and I'm making the assumption that the XRGB, etc. don't have this issue), so maybe others know more about what's going on.

Ultimately, the component option remains the best compromise for me right now with the SNES through the scaler and my much-loved SLG3000, until an alternate solution is found (or I guess if I ever pony up the cash for the more expensive toys).

[blizzz]

Could someone tell me the correct settings for a 60Hz SNES in combination with the SLG3000. No matter what I do, I always end up with some lines that aren't "right". It looks almost perfect for still images, but in motion it messes up the lines and becomes unsharp which is annoying if there is text. This is especially annoying in Secret of Mana because the text on the bottom becomes almost unreadable. If I change the V Size by 1 the lines become perfectly sharp but some other become ugly. I get the same result with a PAL SNES modded to 60Hz regionfree and an unmodded Super Famicom.

My settings (Geometry Menu): 67 - 21 - 29 - 12 - 85 - 86

[fagin]

I've never noticed this issue, but I haven't really spent alot of time playing with this combination. I'm going to look into this, as I have a fair few options and combinations I can try.

Will let you know how I get on.

[Beaps]

I ordered a sync strkie on Friday in the hope this solves my problem as I said I have this issue with all my consoles, pal, ntsc

[fagin]

Right.... it appears to be a scaler issue.

This is true whether you use the LM1881, SyncStrike or say a Syncblaster cable.

If you want stability across a range of consoles and use the SLG3000, you're going to have put your hand back in your pocket.

[Beaps]

...So the SLG3000 is at fault then. Not up to the job?

[blizzz]

I don't have any screen tearing problems with SNES -> SyncStrike-> CGA2VGA Scaler -> SLG3000.

[fagin]

...So the SLG3000 is at fault then. Not up to the job?

No... I said it's a scaler issue.

[Beaps]

Yer sorry that's what I meant.

Is there a similar scaler out there that is cheap & up to the job?

[fagin]

Yer sorry that's what I meant.

Is there a similar scaler out there that is cheap & up to the job?

Only 2nd hand off eBay..... and it's then pot luck on availability.

This is the exact reason why the Micomsoft XRGB processors are so popular 240p SCART sources, but infinantly more expensive.

[Beaps]

Sheet! I put all that time and effort in to find out the scaler is toilet.

Oh well live & learn - thanks fagin

[fagin]

Sheet! I put all that time and effort in to find out the scaler is toilet.

Oh well live & learn - thanks fagin

I never noticed this issue as all my previous testing had been with a NTSC Saturn and converted PAL to NTSC PS2. The Saturn was connected via SCART RGB and the PS2 via component or SCART RGB. Neither of those consoles appeared to have any problems. My testing has always been limited as well.

I wouldn't say it's "toilet" tbh.

[Retro Access]

Right.... it appears to be a scaler issue.

This is true whether you use the LM1881, SyncStrike or say a Syncblaster cable.

If you want stability across a range of consoles and use the SLG3000, you're going to have put your hand back in your pocket.

This.

I know I'm wiring up my sync strippers correctly, pulling voltage from the board itself and I have tried several sync stripper ICs.

However, with the PS2 the screen rolls on certain screens. So far it has been unimportant screens like loading screens or asking you to plug in a memory card. So it has not affected anything, but I imagine with some games out there it could.

Sometimes it won't work til I hit AUTO, whereupon it works fine.

I chalk this up to "It's a cheap board." Something has changed on the screen, resolution, framerate, whatever it may be has confused it. Really, even the best of upscalers out there have issues, if you expect 100% compatibility from a $40 board with everything, you are being way too optomistic. The CGA 2 VGA scalers are excellent for the price and the compatibility with modern LCDs is high, for the price. But this hobby requires fiddling around sometimes, and it might require buying something more expensive if things like this become a problem and your favourite game or console doesn't work 100% with the scaler.

Will say I tried a different revision of the same board and didn't get the rolling on certain screens. So maybe they finetuned it at some point, however it's generally not something that can be fixed unless you upgrade your hardware. If your SCARTs are correctly wired, your sync strippers are correctly wired, it's a problem with your cheap Chinese upscaler.

Hard as hell to convince some of my buyers on eBay of this. I wish they'd ask here.

[Retro Access]

Sheet! I put all that time and effort in to find out the scaler is toilet.

Oh well live & learn - thanks fagin

It isn't "toilet," it's great for the price you paid.

Invest in an XRGB Mini and you still have to faff around with certain consoles. See the thread about it and the problems with certain SNES revisions. Price we are having to pay for wanting to play old electronics on modern TVs.

This hobby really does take effort and research and I dearly wish people would put some time into researching it before they buy these scalers.

[Beaps]

I do agree with you. I wish I would of done more research into this and I wouldn't of bought this scaler. I would of spent the money i layed out for the scaler & the sync strike & the homemade sync stripper & just bought the slg scart & done.

I might just return the sync strike if it makes no difference on my setup when it turns up

[Retro Access]

I do agree with you. I wish I would of done more research into this and I wouldn't of bought this scaler. I would of spent the money i layed out for the scaler & the sync strike & the homemade sync stripper & just bought the slg scart & done.

I might just return the sync strike if it makes no difference on my setup when it turns up

Question for you, do you have a Master System?

I sold a sync stripper and a Genesis/Master System SCART to an eBay buyer and they told me the Master System did not work on it at all but the Genesis 1 did. This was all correctly wired and functional stuff, and the Genesis SCART definitely works on Master System.

However I did not have a Master System to test at the time. I do now, but as I've said - there's various revisions of this board out there. Would appreciate your input if you own this console.