Protect IP - Internet end times?

[Estebang]

So this is going to vote on the 21st. It's expected to pass. I was not expecting things to get this serious.

Better hope that filibuster works. If it passes, the collective might of 4chan/Anonymous/whatever will undoubtedly launch an all-out attack on the US government and military, whose servers they've already broken into numerous times.

[Skykid]

So this is going to vote on the 21st. It's expected to pass. I was not expecting things to get this serious.

Better hope that filibuster works. If it passes, the collective might of 4chan/Anonymous/whatever will undoubtedly launch an all-out attack on the US government and military, whose servers they've already broken into numerous times.

Jesus, that's not what I was hoping to hear. I really hope the UK is sensible enough not to follow suit on this shit.

[Estebang]

There will still be one more approval process to pass before it becomes law, though.

In the unlikely event that it actually gets enforced, I wonder if Google would completely wipe all non-corporate-held Youtube accounts and prevent the creation of more out of fear. The Google search itself would be castrated. Archive.org would have to go offline, at the very least. Even Facebook and Twitter would have major restrictions against content, probably forbidding unofficially-posted images and outside links in the chance that one of them infringes copyright. Foreign-hosted sites don't have to worry about prosecution, but their US visitors would be blocked. Proxies and exploits would enable us to get around the Great Firewall of America just like the web-savvy Chinese do, but there would be a very real risk of five years in the slammer.

If this turns out a worst-case scenario and isn't repealed, I will very seriously consider moving to Canada. I've got relatives there.

[Skykid]

There will still be one more approval process to pass before it becomes law, though.

In the unlikely event that it actually gets enforced, I wonder if Google would completely wipe all non-corporate-held Youtube accounts and prevent the creation of more out of fear. The Google search itself would be castrated. Archive.org would have to go offline, at the very least. Even Facebook and Twitter would have major restrictions against content, probably forbidding unofficially-posted images and outside links in the chance that one of them infringes copyright. Foreign-hosted sites don't have to worry about prosecution, but their US visitors would be blocked. Proxies and exploits would enable us to get around the Great Firewall of America just like the web-savvy Chinese do, but there would be a very real risk of five years in the slammer.

If this turns out a worst-case scenario and isn't repealed, I will very seriously consider moving to Canada. I've got relatives there.

Five years?

Corporate power still rules the common man, it seems.

Based on everything you just detailed, the organisational nightmare and complete neutering of social network sites, I'm beginning to think it may not get passed. At the very least, I'm surprised a corp with Google's weight isn't fighting vociferously against it.

If that crap comes to the UK, I'm going to go to a country that offers more civil liberties. Like China.

[Estebang]

Google stated long ago that they are in strong opposition of the bill.

And yes, the law would allow prison sentences for a maximum of five years, theoretically for something as minor as humming a copyrighted song in a Youtube video. Software can auto-detect that shit now!

Man, if this passes, it'll be like the outright ban Greece had against all kinds of video games, except it won't be a mistake! (The Greek law was intended to ban only online and electronic gambling, but it was ambiguously worded against "gaming.")

[Gus]

So this is going to vote on the 21st. It's expected to pass.

What... the... fuck.

[Skykid]

Viva La Revolución!

I'm expecting the internet hackers to shut down the Pentagon if this goes through.

[gameoverDude]

About what I said earlier re: Communists: I think we might very well have some closet Fascists in Congress, actually. Totalitarian horseshit like P-IP and SOPA are the wrong way to go about protecting IP. RIAA people have been caught downloading torrents. Hell even DHS folks do it. An European Court has shot down a SOPA-style piracy filter.

SOPA even is a potential breach of privacy. I'm sure the government could abuse SOPA to silence dissenters ala China.

I hope we're not heading toward Fascism. Maybe Ron Paul is who we need.

Buying a congress person is too easy with bribes... uh, I mean campaign finance donations. I think campaign finance donations should be considered criminal bribery if they come from large corporations, MPAA/RIAA etc. Only individuals should be permitted to donate.

And we also need the possibility of recall elections for Congress members to keep them in line. If they faced jeopardy of being ejected from office by those they claim to represent, you can bet they would be more honest. Unfortunately a Congress member cannot be recalled in 32/50 states, and those who whore around with the fatcats can sit high in their ivory towers, gloating at us with a glass of Dom Perignon in one hand while flipping us a bird with the other. That needs to be stopped.

[Moniker]

I'm kind of surprised that they're even forecasting a vote. The payroll tax cut issue may shut down Congress entirely until next year unless it's resolved soon.

@ Estebang - I couldn't find a reputable source with a meaningful update to the SOPA bill. Where'd you get your info?

[Estebang]

The only place I saw the 21st date was some guy's forum post, but numerous activist sites like the one below confirm that the voting will take place this week. Same for being expected to pass, though there's no telling how much that really means.

http://fightforthefuture.org/

[BPzeBanshee]

I'm pessimistic this will happen. If it actually gets in I hope it'll end up like the Cattle Export ban in Australia where everyone in the industry cracked the shits and made the government reverse it again.

[BulletMagnet]

I think we might very well have some closet Fascists in Congress, actually.

Some of their corporatist predecessors hoped to overthrow FDR and put a Fascist state in his place, so it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

[Specineff]

What kind of action can be taken against this? (I hope it doesn't involve writing to your senator, as it would mean McCain in my mom's case, as she is a citizen now.)

[Estebang]

All the activist sites encourage you to write your representative, but bribes are by far the most effective tools, as the MPAA has demonstrated.

[Moniker]

What kind of action can be taken against this? (I hope it doesn't involve writing to your senator, as it would mean McCain in my mom's case, as she is a citizen now.)

As a former intern on the Hill, phone calls tend to be more irksome to the office and thereby get your point across better. Emails and letters are fine, but once whatever underling assigned to it divines its basic message, it's just filed and (if you're lucky) counted. You have a better chance with Reps than Senators, since their offices are quite small. Senators have big offices, and a grand machinery for dealing with constituents; with six-year terms, they can usually safely ignore them.

While that sounds pretty shitty, the chap I worked for would often ask for tallies of support for or against a certain issue among constituents, particularly if they were high volume and he wasn't being pressured too hard by the party to vote one way or another.

[Moniker]

House Republicans rejected the payroll tax extension; so at the very least the internet has been granted a stay of execution until 2012.

[Skykid]

House Republicans rejected the payroll tax extension; so at the very least the internet has been granted a stay of execution until 2012.

Edit: before I celebrate, is that the end of 2012, or the beginning?

[Moniker]

House Republicans rejected the payroll tax extension; so at the very least the internet has been granted a stay of execution until 2012.

Edit: before I celebrate, is that the end of 2012, or the beginning?

Beginning. Next session of Congress starts on 1/5/2012.

[Skykid]

Peter Joseph said a couple of years ago on his radio show that we should never allow the internet to fall under corporate power as it's the last real freedom of the common man.

I hate to say this, but you guys over there might need to be the example. Once the rest of the world see how badly such legislation ruins the internet and the ensuing uproar, they might just be smart enough to tell the corporate assholes that they'll see no such law passed elsewhere.

[gameoverDude]

House Republicans rejected the payroll tax extension; so at the very least the internet has been granted a stay of execution until 2012.

I feel it's our Count that votes and not our votes that count. Count = Senator, Middle and Lower Class = Serfs. The system reeks of corporate feudalism. Senators' terms are too long at 6 years. They really should be cut down to 3.
We're taxed enough already. I think the sales/use tax needs to be banned- just replace it with a slight raise in the city/county income tax.

Social Security should have been privatized a long time ago. I don't count on the SS fund being there when my time comes to collect, and if it's still there I believe it could have a really poor ROI. SS needs an opt-out; if it had one I'd take it. Why not let people put what they currently pay on SS tax into a private pension or other investment, instead of a welfare system? This isn't risk free, but neither is paying SS tax- the system could very well go kaput eventually and leave us with jack shit.

They shouldn't even bother to amend SOPA & PIPA- nothing short of a complete rejection will do.

[BulletMagnet]

Senators' terms are too long at 6 years. They really should be cut down to 3.

The problem with that, unfortunately, is that they'll become even more frequently obsessed with fund-raising and getting re-elected (as opposed to actually serving the public, even if some of their decisions are unpopular with certain groups) than they already are.

We're taxed enough already.

Depends on your perspective, I suppose - on the one hand, most people's purchasing power and quality of life are, indeed, either stagnating or decreasing, but their taxes are only falling a fraction of the way to compensate, so it can certainly seem that one is being "taxed to death" with little benefit in return. On the other hand, actual tax rates, especially for the uber-rich, are at or near the lowest levels in the nation's history (and of course any effort to even tweak them back up to SOCIALIST Clinton-era rates are immediately shot down), so make of that what you will.

I don't count on the SS fund being there when my time comes to collect, and if it's still there I believe it could have a really poor ROI.

This is something of a misconception; when you hear talk of "Social Security will be bankrupt bu 20XX" they're actually talking about the Social Security trust fund, which is separate from the Social Security taxes which are collected from taxpayers and doled back out to SS recipients regularly (by the way, the trust fund was originally intended to be untouchable save for its intended purpose, but a certain overly-beloved "Teflon President" changed the rules so that it could be borrowed from to pay for other things - true to his nickname, to this day pretty much nobody bothers to blame him for the current shortfall). Even if the trust fund suddenly ceases to exist, SS can continue to pay out somewhere around 70 to 80 percent of its current output - that isn't to say that the shortfall shouldn't be fixed, but compared to something REALLY huge on the budget front (health care costs, for example) it's a very easy fix. Unfortunately, a sizable portion of our leaders would rather use the current situation as an excuse to finally kill the whole program off and throw its dependents to the free-market wolves, rather than actually admit that any government-backed program can actually work decently if it isn't run by people devoted to its destruction.

[Moniker]

House Republicans rejected the payroll tax extension; so at the very least the internet has been granted a stay of execution until 2012.

I feel it's our Count that votes and not our votes that count. Count = Senator, Middle and Lower Class = Serfs. The system reeks of corporate feudalism. Senators' terms are too long at 6 years. They really should be cut down to 3.

Not sure I agree here. The Constitution definitely has some elitism built in, w/r/t the Senate. Excepting the Supreme Court, the Senate is the main provider of continuity of government, which I see as a necessary to combat fickle mob mentality. The long term removes Senators from the wishes of constituents, but I hardly think that's a bad thing, esp. in cases where we enter a recession and the TV tells everyone that the current economic policy is wrong and has failed. Obviously, the Senate is not as enlightened as we would like, but we need something.

We're taxed enough already. I think the sales/use tax needs to be banned- just replace it with a slight raise in the city/county income tax.

I'm at the complete opposite end of you, here. Taxes discourage whatever they apply to, and I think the last thing we want to discourage is labor/jobs. I would argue, rather, for the repeal of all income tax to be replaced with sales tax. It's no secret that Americans overconsume, and a little negative feedback there couldn't hurt. Certainly staples like food should remain untaxed, but taxes luxuries like jewelry (everyone hates DeBeers anyway) and other non-essential consumer goods couldn't hurt. Especially if a lack of income tax gives Joe the Plumber more to spend anyway. I'm not sure how I feel about real-estate tax. New Hampshire has been able to avoid income tax for years due to real-estate and sales tax. Making it progressive should help.

Social Security should have been privatized a long time ago.

Amen and amen. On reflection, there isn't much that wouldn't benefit from privatization, excepting education and the military.

On topic, I seriously doubt that SOPA or equivalent legislation will ever pass. IT is such a huge portion of the US economy right now that it makes no sense to throw up barriers. AFAIK there isn't a whole lot of popular support for it anyway. Google by itself ought to be able to balance out M$ & its cohorts. Maybe that's wishful thinking.

[Specineff]

Oh, snap?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc

[Skykid]

Oh, snap?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc

This world is really sick.

You folks have a right to arms in the US, so you still have the opportunity to take back your country. Maybe those occupy guys need to get tooled up.

[Moniker]

You've all probably already read about this in the news, but today is the big blackout day to protest SOPA. Google's homepage has a link to an open online petition you can sign to add your voice.

[Skykid]

I tried to hit up wikipedia for something. Pretty ominous!

[Estebang]

My current prediction is that this will eventually be enacted (too much corporate money behind it), and there will be nonstop social unrest and hacker attacks until it is repealed or heavily neutered. Huge areas of the internet will stay wiped, though.

[Moniker]

Well, after today, both PIPA and SOPA are bleeding cosponsors. I think that senators and reps are beginning to realize that with bullshit like this they'll lose the youth vote. In my jaded view, young people tend to not give a shit unless something affects them directly, and this did. Now, I think we'll see a scramble to oppose the bills to appear more hip.

The only problem I see is if the next revision contains deliberately dense and confusing language rendering people unable to rally against something they don't really understand.

[Vyxx]

I tried to hit up wikipedia for something. Pretty ominous!

There's a few loop holes so anyone can still access Wikipedia... if you know how.

[Aliquantic]

Not loopholes as such since they're spelled out on Wikipedia's explanatory page (the goal in the first place was to make sure people saw their message, not deny access).