Shmups, Memorisation, And Practice... The Debate.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Here's a topic sure to spark debate/abuse.

Is it "unreasonable" to practice/memorise a game so that you can clear it?

Does memorising a game give you an unfair advantage over the game, or are shmups designed (or at least necessarily designed) to be cleared by memorisation in combination with reactions?

Is measuring "ability" via "clears" (i.e. the abilty to memorise an efficient path) different to measuring a "raw" ability (i.e the ability to play an unknown game on reactions alone) and a fair test of who is the best player?

Shmups are hard, but at what point do you have an advantage over the game's difficulty by way of your practice... at what point does your experience outweigh the inherent difficulty of the game?

[Gus]

That's nonsense. If you think memorization is cheating it's no wonder you haven't cleared anything.

[mesh control]

Is studying for a test cheating?

No, it's not.

[DrTrouserPlank]

As I said, this topic is here to spark debate; not condemnation of me.

I think it's a provocative topic if people take more than two seconds to think about it. That's why I posted it.

[Siren2011]

at what point does your experience outweigh the inherent difficulty of the game?

Not a question I find worth investigating at all.

But uh, yeah. That's the whole point... I can't believe I have to explain this, but the player's skill SUPPOSED to outweigh the difficulty, or else no one would beat any game ever. To do so requires, yes, memorization and lots and LOTS of practice.

I think it's a provocative topic if people take more than two seconds to think about it. That's why I posted it.

No offense, but two seconds spent "thinking about it" is two seconds too long.

But I agree, it's certainly provocative.

EDIT: Oh and I didn't catch this at first.

at what point does your experience outweigh the inherent difficulty of the game?

Games don't have "inherent difficulties." A kid could find Math Blaster to be ludicrously hard, while a fifth grader would laugh his ass off at how simple it is. In the same way, there are people here who practiced for years trying to 1CC shoot 'em ups, while others have mastered them in a fraction of the time. Therefore, difficulty is in the mind of the beholder, not the game.

[GaijinPunch]

As I said, this topic is here to spark debate; not condemnation of me.

The you're going to need to drastically change the contents of the question.

[Vyxx]

You're forgetting the fact that most people start memorizing a game the second or third time they play a credit, regardless if that is their goal.

[drauch]

This is weasels.

[mesh control]

This is weasels.

[Estebang]

Seriously, there's nothing to "debate" here.

I vote this to be locked.

[Udderdude]

These enemy positions will be on the quiz. I don't want to have to fail anyone in this shmup, er, class .. so don't dissapoint me!

[Drum]

I don't know why this can't be discussed, guy has a point (I've made the same point before). Games that mix things up so you can't memorise the whole thing and are forced to be constantly reassessing/reacting are cool. My biggest issue with modern shooters it would be the rigidly pattern-based structure - it makes scoring an incredible chore. Understanding algorithms is just a whole lot more interesting than learning preset patterns. Memorisers are fine for some, but they are creepily unbiquitous in the genre. I like to have to react and the game to react to me.

[Davey]

A shmup that can be cleared without memorization is a shmup that is so easy that it can be cleared on the first try. Somehow I don't see that working in this genre.

OTOH, there are some doujins with randomized bullet patterns. Those don't require memorization. Whether or not that's a viable concept for competitive play (i.e., worthy of an arcade release), I don't know.

[DrTrouserPlank]

As I said, this topic is here to spark debate; not condemnation of me.

The you're going to need to drastically change the contents of the question.

I think I'll just soak up the abuse as it comes in; I'm getting quite used to it now.

[Mero]

You'll memorize whichever game you're playing automatically the more you play it

[Elixir]

Jesus christ you're annoying. I can't actually insult you because I'm too busy feeling sorry for you instead.

You're asking a hypothetically impossible to answer question as people learn at their own pace. And you could be learning at yours, but no, you'd rather bitch about it and discuss shmups rather than actually playing them.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Jesus christ you're annoying. I can't actually insult you because I'm too busy feeling sorry for you instead.

You're asking a hypothetically impossible to answer question as people learn at their own pace. And you could be learning at yours, but no, you'd rather bitch about it and discuss shmups rather than actually playing them.

I suppose it is a little unreasonable of me to try to discuss shmups on a message board dedicated entirely to that genre and created solely for that purpose.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I think wanting to do anything challenging requires study.

That said as you become more and more experienced in the genre you will find more aspects come naturally. Some shmups depending on their stage layout and sprites are easier and more fun to memorise than others as I find graphically bland game like Touhou a pain to memorise initially.

(Try playing a new shmup every week and see how far you get and if you improve in your playstyle, its certanly more fun than burning yourself out on a single game.

[emphatic]

This is weasels.

[Elixir]

Hey, person reading this post. Yeah, you, behind the monitor. Yeah, I know you can see the situation. Yeah, I know it's painful to watch. I don't think it can be described in a positive light. It's just going to repeat itself, as much as possible, you know? That feeling, it's almost a foreboding sense. It isn't going to stop. Anything you say won't sink in and it most certainly won't help him improve. This thread will be locked, but this situation will repeat itself. I guarantee it. Watch. Well, back to the shmups forum game, then?

[NTSC-J]

[TrevHead (TVR)]

[Acid King]

Practice develops skills that make the initial going at any shooter easier. Memorization matters but with most modern bullet hell shooters, the key is developing the skills required to navigate the types of patterns the game throws at you. Memorization doesn't help if you don't develop the dexterity to effectively tap-dodge or the visual acuity to track patterns. I think you're making it more complicated than it is.

[drauch]

IF YOU WERE A HOT DOG WOULD YOU EAT YOURSELF?

[Jeneki]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I paid $400 to import a 360, plus another $80 for DaiOuJou Black Label, just so I could play Concentration in tate.

[DrTrouserPlank]

IF YOU WERE A HOT DOG WOULD YOU EAT YOURSELF?

I'll get back to you on that one.

[Casey120]

Shmups and Alzheimer ,



a fair game !

[Siren2011]

[Davey]

[drunkninja24]

IF YOU WERE A HOT DOG WOULD YOU EAT YOURSELF?