Could someone properly explain PAL gaming?

[neorichieb1971]

The problem with 16 bit was that almost all games were sprites. Since 2D was measured in lines it was impossible to do PAL conversions since the sprites and bitmaps were not high enough to fill the screen (the extra 100 lines). You would have to re draw the sprites and bitmaps from scratch. That would probably lead to a power shortage on the hardware to get the same results as the NTSC version since you would in theory need 17% more power to make such a project work.

When 3D came along it was simply a case of geometry tinkering. To make a 3D game go from NTSC to PAL you just needed to change the size of a bunch of polygons to fit the larger resolution. Also, at this time some smarty pants figured out PAL60, a method to get 60hz code to work at 50hz without any loss of speed or quality (still don't know how this works). First introduced in the Sega Dreamcast.

[sven666]

But the ones sven mentioned - Actraiser, Super Metroid, Zelda - seem to be the same.

you think so huh?


PAL games stretched the theme of the picture to the whole box rather than having it squished into some generic framework as ntsc games..

[Moniker]

But the ones sven mentioned - Actraiser, Super Metroid, Zelda - seem to be the same.

PAL games stretched the theme of the picture to the whole box rather than having it squished into some generic framework as ntsc games..

I'm pretty sure the picture is the same size in each.. the only difference is a shift from right to left and the pal version has golden borders rather than black (apart from the big black bar, which is the same size as the ntsc version)...

[xbl0x180]

The main difference between PAL and NTSC games is that the buttons are on the left side of the controller

[nZero]

Also, at this time some smarty pants figured out PAL60, a method to get 60hz code to work at 50hz without any loss of speed or quality (still don't know how this works). First introduced in the Sega Dreamcast.

Er, PAL60 is a called that because it actually outputs at 60Hz (and requires a TV that supports it)

[Obiwanshinobi]

From what I know, PAL 60 is NTSC resolution, NTSC refresh rate and PAL colour (superior to NTSC colour). Don't know if the Wii actually outputs PAL 60, but apparently the PS2 doesn't (even if it's called PAL 60, as in SoulCalibur II for the PS2, it's just your bog standard NTSC).
One PAL game where I think the colour is blatantly superior to the NTSC version is Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria for the PS2 (well optimised, but the proportions are slightly off, as you can see comparing both back to back; something I can totally deal with).

[BrianC]

I noticed that, in some situations (not too often, but it definitely affected some of the c64 games), it's the other way around for the US VC with PAL games not being optimized for the US VC. Though I love the game, I was a bit disappointed that U-four-ia on the VC wasn't optimised for US. It runs at the same speed as an EU cart running on a model 2 NES. The odd thing about U-Four-ia is that the music seems to have been optimized for EU, but the speed is noticably slower than the JP version. When played on the US model 2 NES, the music is fast, but if the gameplay speed is faster, it's only faster by a very slight bit.

I heard Brazil has had PAL-M (which I think is PAL 60) for awhile. I know there were some 60 Hz pirate Atari 2600 games with PAL colors there. It's a late re-release cart, but, for some odd reason, the Telegames "NTSC" Bump 'N Jump runs at 60 Hz with the PAL colors (and possibly slightly faster speed). I compared the PAL and M-Network games on Harmony cart (2600 flash cart) and I confirm that the PAL game flips, unlike the Telegames version, and the colors of the Telegames version are the PAL colors.

[Herr Schatten]

I can't figure out why the PAL retro collecting market is becoming desirable. Dudes are paying top dollar for nerfed 50hz games. Weird.

You answered your own question right there (important bit highlighted by me). They're collectors. Those carts are probably never even taken out of their boxes.

[Skykid]

I can't figure out why the PAL retro collecting market is becoming desirable. Dudes are paying top dollar for nerfed 50hz games. Weird.

You answered your own question right there (important bit highlighted by me). They're collectors. Those carts are probably never even taken out of their boxes.

You're right of course. Buying games not to play them makes me angry though.

[Krimzon Kitzune]

You're right of course. Buying games not to play them makes me angry though.

Hell yeah, I can finally agree with you on something.

[DQuick]

Taking PAL games that were not optimised and can only be played at 50hz out of circulation is a mercy killing. They shouldn't be played, collecting is really the only thing they are good for.

It is worth noting that for a lot of older systems you simply need to either mod your console or get an import machine with an adapter and you can play your PAL games as they were intended. It was only with the playstation/N64 and some PS2/GC games that you really need to import the games.