Could someone properly explain PAL gaming?

[evil_ash_xero]

I know that it runs at 50hz, instead of 60hz. So, does the game run slower? What effect does it have on the games, themselves? I'm just curious, since it seems PAL gaming is quite unpopular.

[kernow]

It was quite popular in europe.

[Marc]

Back in the 16 bit days it meant getting fucked in the ass with games that ran slower, and had borders because we used the shitty US TV resolution, instead of the far superior Euro one. And if the game already had borders in the US... Ouch.

[ryu]

the borders didn't only make the screen smaller, but squished the visuals vertically. tidus in final fantasy x pal looks like a midget.

[nem]

I know that it runs at 50hz, instead of 60hz. So, does the game run slower?

17% slower yes, unless the game was PAL optimized (most games weren't).

[Skykid]

I think it's to do with the difference in the number of lines being drawn by a 50hz TV compared to an NTSC 60hz TV.
NTSC draws fewer lines (480) compared to PAL (576), and has a quicker refresh rate.
PAL actually has a higher resolution but a lower frame rate (25fps vs NTSC's 30fps.)

Without bothering to recode the game for a PAL setup, they would just force the NTSC optimised game to run on a 576 line PAL screen, which ended up squashing the image by placing black borders on the top and bottom and, because it's having to draw more lines on the screen, would reduce the speed to make Street Fighter a bit like playing underwater.

It was possible to recode the game to run at full screen/speed on a 50hz TV, but it didn't happen very often iirc.

Apologies if any of the above info is out of whack, it's from memory and a while since I've been through it.

[Marc]

Although - astonishingly - Nintendo did boost the speed of a few PAL games. It had the effect of making Mario Kart run faster than the US cart, and stupid fast if you used the PAL cart on a US machine through a converter. We still had borders though.

[Skykid]

Just want to add, this is the reason I can't figure out why the PAL retro collecting market is becoming desirable. Dudes are paying top dollar for nerfed 50hz games. Weird.

[ryu]

i can see people collecting german games for their awful yet nostalgic translations

[Obiwanshinobi]

In all fairness, many last-gen PAL games without the 60 Hz option were properly optimised (rather than hacked, frameskipping and whatnot). Even some games on the budget side, such as Crash 'N' Burn and The Red Star, looked and played practically the same, be it NTSC or PAL versions.

[Skykid]

Was Super Mario All Stars optimised for PAL? I had it, but I can't remember now.

[Ebbo]

I'm pretty sure it wasn't - after all Nintendo didn't even bother optimising the 25th anniversary version:
http://wii.nintendolife.com/news/2010/1 ... _50hz_only

[Skykid]

I'm pretty sure it wasn't - after all Nintendo didn't even bother optimising the 25th anniversary version:
http://wii.nintendolife.com/news/2010/1 ... _50hz_only

Lol, you're right, I forgot about that. Shocking stuff. I seem to remember they were releasing early Wii Euro VC games in 50hz too - are they still doing that?

It was the reason I bought a US system.

[Ebbo]

Yup, so it seems. I bought Mega Man 4 from VC - which was added there somewhere around 2010 - and after MM 9&10 it was quite a shock to return one of my childhood favourites after so many years.

[Skykid]

Yup, so it seems. I bought Mega Man 4 from VC - which was added there somewhere around 2010 - and after MM 9&10 it was quite a shock to return one of my childhood favourites after so many years.

Sucky. No wonder everyone hacked it to shit.

OT: Your shmup looks awesome, I wanna play - but is it mac compatible?

[TransatlanticFoe]

I know that it runs at 50hz, instead of 60hz. So, does the game run slower?

17% slower yes, unless the game was PAL optimized (most games weren't).

It's mostly noticeable with the music. At least, I found that with my PAL Mega Drive playing the Genesis Twin Cobra. I noticed the music was slower but the gameplay wasn't affected.

Also, in PAL gaming the NES was a non-event and Genesis was the first book in the Bible.

[Ghegs]

Also, in PAL gaming the NES was a non-event and Genesis was the first book in the Bible.

Ah, that's not true. In some parts of Europe the NES was huge while the Sega consoles took a backseat, in other parts the situation was reversed.

[Marc]

The Master System seemed to far outnumber the NES in the UK, though both were way behind the 8-bit micros.

[evil_ash_xero]

Well, thanks for clearing that up for me. Sounds horrible.

I'm assuming that's cleared up(for the most part) now?

[KmanSweden]

Here's some 50/60Hz pics for you.
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/ninte ... ches-3.htm

[spl]

I have no idea.. growing up in aus I played PAL games my whole life and I really don't feel too much of a diff now with emulators and playing the NTSC versions.

PS. Over here - Nintedo reigned supreme during NES/SNES days.

[sven666]

PS. Over here - Nintedo reigned supreme during NES/SNES days.

sweden too, one thing thats good about PAL nes and snes games is they usually have the best boxart of all 3 regions.. sometimes not ofcourse but check PAL versions of ZELDA 1-2, alttp.. and others like actraiser or super metroid comes to mind.

[Skykid]

The Master System seemed to far outnumber the NES in the UK, though both were way behind the 8-bit micros.

I don't remember it being like that at all, although the Master System did better in Europe than anywhere else in the world. But it was still the NES that most people seemed to have in the UK.

Also, in PAL gaming the NES was a non-event and Genesis was the first book in the Bible.

Genesis certainly wasn't the first book in the Bible in PAL gaming. Alongside the computer craze (Commodore 64, Amiga etc) The second generation was crazy popular here, (Atari 2600, Intellivision, Vectrex, Game & Watch.) I've even still got my Colecovision, and that didn't do particularly well anywhere.

It wasn't called the Genesis either, thankfully (horrible name) we were lucky enough to get the machine branded as the Mega Drive. It was extremely popular in the UK and Nintendo had to play catch up, but they superseded it eventually with the SNES.

[dannnnn]

one thing thats good about PAL nes and snes games is they usually have the best boxart of all 3 regions.. sometimes not ofcourse but check PAL versions of ZELDA 1-2, alttp.. and others like actraiser or super metroid comes to mind.

FC and SFC all the way

[Stormwatch]

Whut? Unless Google Images is lying to me, those covers were about identical to the US ones.

[Skykid]

Whut? Unless Google Images is lying to me, those covers were about identical to the US ones.

Nope, the US got ultra boxart butchery. PAL regions were spared a lot of the 'bespoke' artwork made for the US market (same for console designs too) but we still had our fair share of shit.

[Stormwatch]

But the ones sven mentioned - Actraiser, Super Metroid, Zelda - seem to be the same.

[Skykid]

But the ones sven mentioned - Actraiser, Super Metroid, Zelda - seem to be the same.

Yeah I think they are tbh.

If I had my Super Play collection at hand I could probably find some good examples.

Edit: here's one:

NTSC


PAL

[moh]

what the balls?? i didnt even know PAL ran slower D: GOD BLESS THE U-S..... wait a second.. i live in canada.. >_>

[Skykid]

what the balls?? i didnt even know PAL ran slower D: GOD BLESS THE U-S..... wait a second.. i live in canada.. >_>

It's also one of the reasons the grey importing scene exploded in the mid-90's in Europe. We had added incentive to seek out foreign games and didn't waste any time - the Japanese importing scene grew rapidly and there were high street stores bringing stuff over by the shedload. For that, I'm almost thankful for PAL gaming.