The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.

[ebarrett]

Don't pull a plankytrousers and blame it on "luck", there is no "luck".

Unless we're talkin' about flamingoes amirite

GODDAMN FLAMINGOES

[Gus]

I just don't get why TrouserPlank still uses Reco. Palm Abnormal is best for a first 1cc, and even after 1ccing with Reco, I still preferred to use him over her.

Easier in what way?

Easier because his laser takes down most bosses before they can pull out their difficult patterns and his faster shot movement speed is better suited for dodging the fast stage bullets.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Anyway, about a game I haven't played in a long time, why are the some boss/midboss attack orders in Pink Sweets randomized? I have been screwed over by luck cause some of that stuff is impossible to avoid from certain positions while other stuff from the boss/midboss requires you to be in said positions when they start.

That's the whole point of it, you have to account for all possible attacks when preparing for the next one, and act accordingly when you see what is coming up next - there are cues for every attack from all bosses. Don't pull a plankytrousers and blame it on "luck", there is no "luck".

It'd be nice to have vids of how to properly deal with the midbosses and bosses and everything that they can do. It's more that there's not much strategy out there for the game, so you can't exactly do the copy what the pros are doing thing. And most of the vids seem to be more about the infinite lives that the port does not have. Also, wasn't there supposed to be some safespot for stage 6 midboss 3? I never was able to pull it off in training mode.


But even still, the Lightning attack is indeed legitimate luck based BS, maybe not from a survival standpoint, but from scoring one.

[chempop]

How the forum has become full of shit posters.

How ebarrett beat Battle Garegga in a week.

How Pink Sweets rips me a new one.

How badly I suck at virtually every hori memorizer.

How Gunbird is the only Psikyo game I've ever 1-Alled.

[azinth]

How the forum has become full of shit posters.

Hi Scores is free of shitposters and needs more love, go make some posts there.

[RNGmaster]

Most of the times I die my thought is,

"That was stupid, but hardly surprising given the amount of crap coming at me. It's a miracle that I've managed to avoid so much of it."

swiftly followed by,

"This is just ridiculous!"

followed by a death about 15 seconds later

Weclome to shmups. Roughly 90% of my deaths are due to not paying close enough attention to a section, and only 10% are failing at a section that is legitimately too difficult for me. The difference here is that I don't blame the game - I blame myself and admit that I need to get better. Then I practice only the sections that are legitimately too challenging for my current skill level. (This is much easier with savestates - take a break from the 360 and play Futari on MAME for a bit, just a suggestion.) I also don't play when I'm really upset - judging by your posts, you do.

And during these 3 months where you've spent almost all of your time with the genre complaining and raging against the heavens, I've spent 3 solid months on one game, sucking up all the failures (and there have been many failures), praticing efficiently, and I now have second place on Dragon Blaze in the Western world. I wonder which of us has been getting more mileage and fun out of the genre It is difficult, but very rewarding. You're actually doing pretty well, keep going!

Also, I can't stress this enough: READ PROMETHEUS' DODONPACHI GUIDE.

[DJ Incompetent]

Most of the times I die my thought is,

"That was stupid, but hardly surprising given the amount of crap coming at me. It's a miracle that I've managed to avoid so much of it."

swiftly followed by,

"This is just ridiculous!"

followed by a death about 15 seconds later

So basically, you can't refocus on the game after your first death. I call this the mind-tantrum.
This puts you at a disadvantage in that you have little choice but to 1LC while everybody else can utilize their spare lives to clear the game.

You could panic bomb more on the start of your respawn to buy you more time to get your bearings. I do this sometimes.

[Deca]

You could panic bomb more on the start of your respawn to buy you more time to get your bearings. I do this sometimes.

Or you could, you know, just deal with it. You have invincibility, just put yourself somewhere comfortable. If you're terrified and disoriented whenever there are more than 2 bullets on the screen there are some very basic shooter skills you're lacking. Play more, think less, work on being confident.

[MR_Soren]

So basically, you can't refocus on the game after your first death. I call this the mind-tantrum.
This puts you at a disadvantage in that you have little choice but to 1LC while everybody else can utilize their spare lives to clear the game.

You could panic bomb more on the start of your respawn to buy you more time to get your bearings. I do this sometimes.

Agreed. I used to do the same thing when I was starting out. Helps your mind start tracking bullets from a clean slate.

[dunpeal2064]

My gf does that. She dies once trying to score too heavily, and then dies 2 more times from being pissed at the first death.

She did still manage to hit st4 in futari 1.5, but thats the only game she's consistant with.

If I die once, I mentally tell myself that this is now a stress-free run, because no matter how good I do, the entire run would have been better if I hadnt died there. Most of my good runs start like this actually. If I havent missed, I start to get too excited.

[Skykid]

Here you go. I admittedly made a mistake on the first attack of the final phase but it didn't cost me that time. I also have the complete recording from start to finish, including screwups, available on request. It's about 10 minutes including menus and such.

Ill.

Obviously none of that was practice and primarily down to profound luck, you lucky guy you.

[Sapz]

Thanks. And yeah, you can barely move in my room for all the horseshoes I have lying around.

[DrTrouserPlank]

How hard would I have to push the scoring to reach 200M by (let's say) the end of stage 4? This question is obviously relative,

I score about 50M by the end of stage 2 if I no miss it.
I have about 80-90M at the end of stage 3 having bombed and probably died at some point.

Can I get 200M by the end of stage 4?
Can I do it and still use bombs or would that make it nearly impossible?

[Sapz]

You can use bombs, but it'd make things more difficult.

I would say that in order to get 200m by the end of stage 4, you should be looking for (at least) around 65m by the end of stage 2 and around 125m by the end of stage 3. You can of course get more than that, but it's difficult. If you die before the end of stage 4, it's unlikely that you'll make it to 200m by that point unless your scoring is phenomenal everywhere else. I'd recommend using the 545m replay at the top of the leaderboards as a reference, it helped me a lot.

[Zengeku3]

A shmup grievance is when you lose a would've-been-1cc run because you missed the Stage 5 extend. That just happened for me in Mushi. That was annoying. (Yeah, literally, I got to the tail part of the final phase of Larsa. Died to the very last bullet.)The run wasn't even that terrible except for the end portion of Stage 5 which I apparently need to develop an approach to since I dropped 3 bombs within 30 seconds because I kept getting pushed against the side of the screen.

And the second half of Stage 3 is also something that needs work. I'd wish this game had that handy feature from DFK of starting the practice session at the midboss since across all of Stage 3, 4 and 5, its only the 2nd half that I need practice on.

Btw Sapz, is that ultra fast tail-attack of Larsa fixed or is it a matter of reaction time? I can't read that thing fast enough with any sort of reliabilty so when she pulls that attack out I need to spam bombs.

[DJ Incompetent]

How hard would I have to push the scoring to reach 200M by (let's say) the end of stage 4? This question is obviously relative,

I score about 50M by the end of stage 2 if I no miss it.
I have about 80-90M at the end of stage 3 having bombed and probably died at some point.

Can I get 200M by the end of stage 4?
Can I do it and still use bombs or would that make it nearly impossible?

No no no you're doing it backwards.
Learn the 1CC first. You can indirectly practice scoring on stages you are getting bored with from no missing so much.
After you've nailed the 1CC a few times, you can start figuring out what stages you want to try for highest score (usually stages 1-3) but remember to cut 'n run and focus on survival when you decide you are at "the hard part of the game"

For you, probably abandon scoring tactics the second you lose your first life, if you can figure out how to use yer spare lives.

[Sapz]

Btw Sapz, is that ultra fast tail-attack of Larsa fixed or is it a matter of reaction time? I can't read that thing fast enough with any sort of reliabilty so when she pulls that attack out I need to spam bombs.

The pattern itself is static, but it moves with the boss. Knowing where to be at each sweep is essential, but you'll still have to react to compensate for Larsa moving around the screen.

[DrTrouserPlank]

You can use bombs, but it'd make things more difficult.

I would say that in order to get 200m by the end of stage 4, you should be looking for (at least) around 65m by the end of stage 2 and around 125m by the end of stage 3. You can of course get more than that, but it's difficult. If you die before the end of stage 4, it's unlikely that you'll make it to 200m by that point unless your scoring is phenomenal everywhere else. I'd recommend using the 545m replay at the top of the leaderboards as a reference, it helped me a lot.

I went off and had a look at that replay. Don't really see what he is doing different to me on stage 2, nevermind anyway. I gave it a try. Had 90M by the end of stage 3 but couldn't have got much more.

I didn't lose the first life until at least half way through level 4. Between there and the last third or so of level 5, I lost all 6 lives which is pretty shit.

I'm back to where I was last time I left this game pretty much. Stuck around 180M (although I suppose this time I've got there a little sooner.)

[Zengeku3]

Btw Sapz, is that ultra fast tail-attack of Larsa fixed or is it a matter of reaction time? I can't read that thing fast enough with any sort of reliabilty so when she pulls that attack out I need to spam bombs.

The pattern itself is static, but it moves with the boss. Knowing where to be at each sweep is essential, but you'll still have to react to compensate for Larsa moving around the screen.

Thanks. I had a feeling about that. That will probably be quite useful information.

[Deca]

Between there and the last third or so of level 5, I lost all 6 lives which is pretty shit.

OK seriously if you can make it that far with that many lives you are definitely capable of getting the 1CC. Spend a day or two doing nothing but stage 5 in training mode and you'll get it.

[Sapz]

I went off and had a look at that replay. Don't really see what he is doing different to me on stage 2, nevermind anyway. I gave it a try. Had 90M by the end of stage 3 but couldn't have got much more.

I didn't lose the first life until at least half way through level 4. Between there and the last third or so of level 5, I lost all 6 lives which is pretty shit.

I'm back to where I was last time I left this game pretty much. Stuck around 180M (although I suppose this time I've got there a little sooner.)

Futari 1.5 Original scoring is very much a system where you'll see slow, steady improvements - there aren't many big scoring tricks, it's more a case of lots of little optimizations like getting more gems while they're green, being more efficient with your shot switches, milking more jellyfish out of icicles, things like that. The more comfortable you get with the stages, the more you can afford to take that kind of risk - a noticable jump in score for me was once I got comfortable with not sticking to near the bottom on stage 3, which lead to a lot of extra green gems. Keep at it, sounds like you'll break 200m soon.

Stage 5 is also good for getting a lot of points - destroying lanterns with your shot (not bombs) gives a fixed amount of points, which increase per lantern. They start at a few hundred thousand and work their way up to a few million per lantern - I'd recommend practicing this and learning some of the locations for a score boost.

[TransatlanticFoe]

1. Avoiding power ups.
As much as I love both of you, Fire Shark and Twin Cobra you suck for this. Dodge some bullets then BAM accidentally pick up a rubbish weapon because the game throws too many useless weapon swaps at you precisely when you don't need it to.

2. Death from behind.
I always think of it being fair game to be smashed by enemies if you go right up the top of the screen. But things coming from behind when your only chance of avoiding them is memorising their appearance genuinely sucks. Truxton would be so much better if it didn't do this all the bloody time.

3. Speed ups.
Too slow and you can't dodge anything. Too fast and you lurch horrifically into everything with the teeniest movement. Die and you can't do anything until you get at least one speed up. I've never played a game with speed power ups that have been well balanced

[Zengeku3]

Palms bomb seems push you back if you use it at the top of the screen. That is apparently the reason I didn't get my Extend that could've made my clear. I'm grieving a bit over that right now.

EDIT: Oh and when the frame rate drops to a very low level and then very suddenly goes back to normal. That stuff is pretty annoying.

[emphatic]

Save states, killin' off all the fun of competition.

[Bananamatic]

Save states, killin' off all the fun of competition.

how about ports with practice mode then

[Zengeku3]

When people complain about people practicing efficiently.

[Vamos]

Save states, killin' off all the fun of competition.

Incorrect it merely raises the standard of competition , im sorry if you find it hard to keep up you should try save states .

[Deca]

Hey it's the grievances thread, let him grieve whatever he wants while we get better

[Zeron]

We should ban all non pcb competition

[Blackbird]

I adore Mushi Futari, but it totally stomps my guts whenever I play it, haha. On a good day, I can make it to stage 4. I only get to play it at the local arcade... need to practice a bit more =D.

I find my ability to play well is a combination of practice and how focused I am on any given day. Some days I get "in the zone" easier than others. Other days I'm not concentrating and I ram bullets =P.

Totally get what people are saying about "tilting" after you die once. I had a pretty big problem with that when I first started playing shmups. I would die once and it would totally break my concentration, then I would die a couple more times. After playing games in this genre for a while, I kind of got used to it and generally focus better. On a bad day, I'll bomb after dying to clear the screen and start with a clean slate.