DVDO EDGE - How it performs

[BuckoA51]

I was playing some Panzer Dragoon Saga last night with the XRGB3 and for reasons unknown my Trilogy 1 SCART matrix switch decided that it wasn't going to be a matrix switch any longer and just output a black screen to one of the outputs. Anyway this meant I had to change over to the DVDO's 240p handling to continue playing the game.

Actually, under these circumstances things looked very good. The way the Edge excessively smooths the picture actually makes early 3D games look a little less jarring, acting perhaps like a primitive form of anti-aliasing.

As we've seen though, the Edge is capable of scaling without this smoothing (if you feed the signal into the RGBHV inputs). It's a shame that we can't have an option to toggle between the two modes on all inputs.

Another thing I found, my push-button SCART switches (which are chained off the Trilogy 1) are actually no good, the picture was being darkened by having other cables plugged in despite the input being switched off. I've removed the offending switch for now and ordered a different kind of switch. Furthermore, there was visible noise on the Edge's picture compared to no noise on the XRGB3, so in actual fact when it comes to SCART/RGB input the Edge seems more sensitive to noise than the XRGB3 is.

Always check your SCART switches! One day I'll figure out why its so hard to produce a SCART switch that actually freakin switches all the pins and doesn't want to muddle the signal up with other cables just for the heck of it.

[OmegaKoopa]

Okay, I just got my Edge and so far I'm impressed, although I'm having an audio issue via component, the thing is that I have component cables (YCbCr + L/R) for both my PS2 and Wii hooked up into the Edge via RGB, I am aware that there is an analog stereo input as well and I hook up the L/R cable in it for sound, after doing so I found that I indeed get sound from my sources, however the problem I'm having is that everytime I start up a different game the Edge only display video but the audio for some reason is muted everytime, this includes whenever the Edge sync's into different display resolutions, most notably with 240p content, anyway it's a real hassle having to go into the DVDO audio settings and selecting the stereo input option everytime I want to get sound going from either my PS2 or Wii, so is there any option for stereo audio to always be working without having to manually select it from the Edge settings every single time?

[BuckoA51]

I've never known the Edge do anything other than leave the audio setting on whatever you set it to last time, weird... Are you on the latest firmware?

[OmegaKoopa]

Well the thing is, whenever I check up the audio settings I see that the Edge is highlighting the last audio input choice that I selected which in this case would be the L/R audio cable from my PS2, but the problem I'm having is that no sound is coming through even when it's already highlighted and selected until I choose it again which happens to work but like I said I have to manually selected it in order for my tv to get sound, I also have this issue whenever I switch between Game Mode on the Edge, even while I have audio successfully running it mutes it once more, if I can't find a solution then I am thinking of maybe using optical fiber cables instead via a optical switcher from my PS2 to my Samsung display.

As for the firmware, I am not sure but I'm assuming it's of a newer one since my edge recognizes 240 signals as 240p and not 480i, I also did see the ringing as well.

[Fudoh]

just try a different FW. There have been a few bug fixes over time and possibly the audio input allignment was one of them.

[OmegaKoopa]

Hmm..a different firmware eh? Well, concerning my audio issues it seems that whenever I switch between both component inputs from the Edge it seems that the component that is not in use seems to have the audio signal going through instead of having aligned with my video which I found really weird (aka my PS2 audio is being outputted to my Wii input instead so I guess a firmware might be a solution to this, I did not find this to be a problem with HDMI input though.

Also, I've been experimenting with the Edge and both the PS2 and PS3 and the results are breathtaking for 480i content, especially on the PS2 since there's hardly any lag present as opposed to my PS3 which made some critical timing games unplayable, however some 240p games like Disgaea still don't look so good because the game has some very heavy alising on it's 3D models, it looks great on my PS2 but could use improving, as far as playing it on my PS3 is concerned, I tryied outputting it in 480p, 720p and 1080i on both the Edge and PS3 but the results were less than impressive, I found the character models way too pixelated and couldn't fix it with Edge enhancement nor Detail Enhancement, so I think it's safe to say that the PS2 handled it better.

On another note, I was testing Mortal Kombat 3 from both the PS2 (240p version) and Wii version (fake 480i from Midway Arcade Collection) and to my surprise I found that the 480i version was vastly improved in picture quality as opossed to the PS2 version, I also tested a series of fake 480i titles and they looked amazing, I was somewhat dissapointed with the 240p version, which brings me to yet another question....

Since the Edge previously recognized 240p content as 480i, would all my 240p games benefit from
the 480i deinteralacing? What's the difference between keeping them in 240p as opposed to having them recognized as 480i by the Edge? if I went back to a previous firmware would this work? I'm actually interested in testing this out but I don't know where to find the previous firmware nor do I know which exact firmware it is, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Fudoh]

On another note, I was testing Mortal Kombat 3 from both the PS2 (240p version) and Wii version (fake 480i from Midway Arcade Collection) and to my surprise I found that the 480i version was vastly improved in picture quality as opossed to the PS2 version

then you should definitely try an older Edge FW. It makes all 240p games look "better".

if I went back to a previous firmware would this work?

yes.

I'm actually interested in testing this out but I don't know where to find the previous firmware nor do I know which exact firmware it is, any help would be appreciated.

I have most of them on file, so you can just email me. If you go back a few pages, you should find some download links as well. And there's also some info around here with which FW version exactly the 240p recognition was introduced.

[BuckoA51]

Don't forget that the Edge's stunning (i.e non-gamer mode) deinterlacing also introduces much higher input lag (it has to, since you can't really deinterlace quickly and still preserve image quality). By not correctly handling 240p you also break some sprite effects like drop shadows etc (see Fudoh's excellent page for more details on what to expect). The other thing you can try is transcoding your component signal to VGA and then feeding it into the Edge via the RGBHV, this makes the picture a little sharper, but don't expect huge big differences. If your pockets are deep enough then chain an XRGB3 onto the Edge for 240p games, of course.

I didn't understand your response about your audio problem, maybe you can rephrase it (the component that is not in use seems to have the audio signal going through instead of having aligned with my video.. what? )

For testing 240p, do not Use Disgaea! Disgaea is a weird title for sure, it never seems to look right. It's one of the only 240p games I run through the Edge rather than the XRGB3 simply because I prefer how the Edge smooths the picture.

[fagin]

Hmm..a different firmware eh? Well, concerning my audio issues it seems that whenever I switch between both component inputs from the Edge it seems that the component that is not in use seems to have the audio signal going through instead of having aligned with my video which I found really weird (aka my PS2 audio is being outputted to my Wii input instead so I guess a firmware might be a solution to this, I did not find this to be a problem with HDMI input though.

Also, I've been experimenting with the Edge and both the PS2 and PS3 and the results are breathtaking for 480i content, especially on the PS2 since there's hardly any lag present as opposed to my PS3 which made some critical timing games unplayable, however some 240p games like Disgaea still don't look so good because the game has some very heavy alising on it's 3D models, it looks great on my PS2 but could use improving, as far as playing it on my PS3 is concerned, I tryied outputting it in 480p, 720p and 1080i on both the Edge and PS3 but the results were less than impressive, I found the character models way too pixelated and couldn't fix it with Edge enhancement nor Detail Enhancement, so I think it's safe to say that the PS2 handled it better.

On another note, I was testing Mortal Kombat 3 from both the PS2 (240p version) and Wii version (fake 480i from Midway Arcade Collection) and to my surprise I found that the 480i version was vastly improved in picture quality as opossed to the PS2 version, I also tested a series of fake 480i titles and they looked amazing, I was somewhat dissapointed with the 240p version, which brings me to yet another question....

Since the Edge previously recognized 240p content as 480i, would all my 240p games benefit from
the 480i deinteralacing? What's the difference between keeping them in 240p as opposed to having them recognized as 480i by the Edge? if I went back to a previous firmware would this work? I'm actually interested in testing this out but I don't know where to find the previous firmware nor do I know which exact firmware it is, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Look at page 4 of this thread and the fw link directly before my screenshots. This is the 480i fw you're looking for.

[BuckoA51]

When playing around with my SLG3000 and the Edge this morning I made a startling discovery:-



1080p via VGA. Now, Fudoh asked me to try this before and it flat out would not work (unsupported signal) so I don't know why it's working now. The picture isn't fantastic however, there's some streaking from the text and some general instability, though I've plenty of crap in the chain that might be causing some of that, plus its really past time I redid all my cabling and made sure no power cables are running next to video ones. I am using high quality cables throughout though. So yeah, 1080p VGA, just thought I'd share that.

Quick update - Significantly improved picture quality by making sure everything else connected to my VGA switch was turned off (It's going through the HDFury 2 which I guess is more susceptible to noise than most things). Also reduced cable lengths a little. Picture is now 100% stable. There's still ghosting, but reduced that some by turning down output peaking on the Extron. Image is still kinda dull and washed out compared to a HDMI connection, but, it works. Yes, using an SLG3000 you can now scanline 1080p content if you want to (not sure why you'd want to but there you go )

(For the record its going PC(1080p)->DVI to HDMI adaptor->Powered HDMI Splitter->HD Fury 2->Startech VGA Switch->Extron RGB Interface->SLG3000->DVDO Edge->TV )

[Konsolkongen]

Bah this resolution is also recognised as YPbPr?!

Sorry, 1080p over VGA is a nice discovery, I'm sure it will be useful to some people

I should contact DVDO about the colorspace thing (this causes slightly washed out red and blue colors), but I believe Fudoh has already tried that with no luck?

[BuckoA51]

Yeah it is about time they fixed that, I'm sure Fudoh said he contacted someone at whoever it is owns ABT these days. The edge recognizes 640x480 VGA as RGB (from a PC) but seems to think everything else is YPbPr.

[fagin]

It might work for that chain, but it doesn't with VGA straight from the 360 at that res.

[Konsolkongen]

Yeah it is about time they fixed that, I'm sure Fudoh said he contacted someone at whoever it is owns ABT these days. The edge recognizes 640x480 VGA as RGB (from a PC) but seems to think everything else is YPbPr.

I assume it's just a matter of unlocking the option that let's us manually select the colorspace for VGA.

[Fudoh]

I sure forwarded all the information about this bug to ABT/Simplay, but I guess it's not a very high priority. Also still waiting for the 240p firmware fix for the Edge Green. I'll get back to them sometime before christmas to inquire about the status for both fixes.

[BuckoA51]

What's wrong with 240p on the Edge Green then?

It might work for that chain, but it doesn't with VGA straight from the 360 at that res.

360 works if you HD-Fury off the HDMI output, so its odd that using the VGA cable directly doesn't work.

[BuckoA51]

1080p via VGA from the 360 confirmed as working:-



60hz only, 50hz just gave me a black screen. Pictures possibly a tiny bit nicer than going through the HD Fury too, maybe if the color Space was RGB the colours would be less washed out too.

[Fudoh]

What's wrong with 240p on the Edge Green then?

works with YUV from a PS2, but not via RGBs, composite and S-Video.

[BuckoA51]

Thanks Fudoh, I'll document that on my Edge pages too.

[Konsolkongen]

RGB-Csync as sync type? There are some serious bugs when it comes to VGA

[fagin]

1080p via VGA from the 360 confirmed as working:-

60hz only, 50hz just gave me a black screen. Pictures possibly a tiny bit nicer than going through the HD Fury too, maybe if the color Space was RGB the colours would be less washed out too.

Just so I'm clear on this....

What is the exact chain you're using for this?

360 @ 1080 -> VGA -> VGA to RCA Lead -> EDGE didn't work at all for me.

You using the Extron RGB in your chain?

[BuckoA51]

RGB-Csync as sync type? There are some serious bugs when it comes to VGA

No, I am using Csync, it's set up that way for the XRGB3, so that I can play my Sega Master System converter I tried RGBHV too of course, no difference to picture quality.

Just so I'm clear on this....

What is the exact chain you're using for this?

360 @ 1080 -> VGA -> VGA to RCA Lead -> EDGE didn't work at all for me.

You using the Extron RGB in your chain?

The Extron's in the chain yeah, not sure it's doing much in this instance though, turning on it's DSP just makes the picture go weird colours.

[fagin]

The Extron's in the chain yeah, not sure it's doing much in this instance though, turning on it's DSP just makes the picture go weird colours.

You're feeding the EDGE a C-SYNC signal, as opposed to normal H & V sync for VGA?

I'll try it tonight with my Extron RGB unit, but going straight from the 360 (VGA) to RCA to EDGE = no picture.

[fagin]

It does seem a tad unstable, as the only way it worked was by altering to 1080p with the 360 connected (from say 720p). Weird.

As you suggested... it works without the Extron RGB (direct connect).

[BuckoA51]

You're feeding the EDGE a C-SYNC signal, as opposed to normal H & V sync for VGA?

yeah that's right, for the XRGB3 fix as previously discussed, though the 360 works either way.

[Konsolkongen]

Sorry, what XRGB-3 fix?

[SGGG2]

Ok I might have made a significant breakthrough with the Genesis/Megadrive Sega Master System converter problem. Here's how I connected it up.

Genesis with SMS Converter->XRGB3->Extron RGB 580xi->DVDO Edge->Display.

My Genesis is modded to output pure sync, I would be suprised if this was not important for this to work.

set the XRGB3 to auto everything.
turn on DDSP and Comp Sync on the Extron.
Connect the Extron to the Edge's RGBHV input BUT (and this is important, even with the comp sync switch on) connect only the horizontal sync line (the top one) leave the vertical sync disconnected.

In this setup the SMS converters picture was perfect, and I mean absolutely utterly perfect, no warping and not even a hint of noise if you stuck your nose against the screen, I watched the picture for a half hour with no screen blanking, it needs a longer test but so far very promising.

[BuckoA51]

Right, there's still some screen warping on some games and if you correct it by changing the AFC, the screen starts to blank again, but at least the SMS is playable now.

[Konsolkongen]

I wasn't aware that you could get a stable VGA picture by only using the H sync :/ Nice find about the Master System Converter issues, but unfortunately I don't think it would go well with my setup as I connect everything though an Extron RGBHV matrix.

Does everything VGA work with only the H sync connected? In that case I could just leave the V-sync unplugged.

[Fudoh]

Note that he's converting HV Sync to C-Sync using an Extron first, then he feeds the C-Sync into the H-Sync connector on the Edge.