Anyone else feeling the Daifukkatsu meh?

[Skykid]

Newsflash:
Trouserplank's opinions are genuine reflections of his ability. The problem is the defeatist attitude and the use of the word 'impossible' gets everyone's back up.

But the argument is cyclical and pointless. He says it can't be done, you all say it can. You're right because your arguments are proven, he's wrong because his are groundless.

Move along in an orderly fashion.

[NzzpNzzp]

In seriousness, I suppose it's because (in theory) I enjoy shooters. My problem has been that they seem to take on an impossible level of difficulty shortly after the third stage, and I don't get any enjoyment from dying repeatedly on a section that is clearly designed to rob you of money rather than simply be a section which is difficult to navigate.

So you buy them because you enjoy them.
Even though you don't enjoy them.

This is kinda getting too deep for me dude.


Have you played R-Type? You should totally play the PS1 R-Type. Once you've worked out what to do you can clear any part of that game with proper tactics. That seems more like your sorta thing.

[Vamos]

Newsflash:
Trouserplank's opinions are genuine reflections of his ability. The problem is the defeatist attitude and the use of the word 'impossible' gets everyone's back up.

But the argument is cyclical and pointless. He says it can't be done, you all say it can. You're right because your arguments are proven, he's wrong because his are groundless.

Move along in an orderly fashion.

This basically, and he thinks a "good game " will pull him in in 10 minutes which actually translates as an easy game that lets him get to tlb on first go laced with pseudo difficult patterns. Wrong genre for you i think trouserplonk.

[Bananamatic]

For trouserplank

[DrTrouserPlank]

Newsflash:
Trouserplank's opinions are genuine reflections of his ability. The problem is the defeatist attitude and the use of the word 'impossible' gets everyone's back up.

But the argument is cyclical and pointless. He says it can't be done, you all say it can. You're right because your arguments are proven, he's wrong because his are groundless.

Move along in an orderly fashion.

"impossible" is just a word I use rather loosely. Don't take it too seriously. It is interchangeable with ridiculous, unreasonably difficult, probabilistically unlikely, and many other phrases for the purposes of this discussion.

In seriousness, I suppose it's because (in theory) I enjoy shooters. My problem has been that they seem to take on an impossible level of difficulty shortly after the third stage, and I don't get any enjoyment from dying repeatedly on a section that is clearly designed to rob you of money rather than simply be a section which is difficult to navigate.

So you buy them because you enjoy them.
Even though you don't enjoy them.

This is kinda getting too deep for me dude.

Have you played R-Type? You should totally play the PS1 R-Type. Once you've worked out what to do you can clear any part of that game with proper tactics. That seems more like your sorta thing.

I've got R-type on XBLA but it doesn't do anything for me. I'm not a great fan of that style of shooters. I find bullet hell far more appealing (at least in theory)

Newsflash:Trouserplank's opinions are genuine reflections of his ability. The problem is the defeatist attitude and the use of the word 'impossible' gets everyone's back up.

But the argument is cyclical and pointless. He says it can't be done, you all say it can. You're right because your arguments are proven, he's wrong because his are groundless.

Move along in an orderly fashion.

This basically, and he thinks a "good game " will pull him in in 10 minutes which actually translates as an easy game that lets him get to tlb on first go laced with pseudo difficult patterns. Wrong genre for you i think trouserplonk.

The discussion of what makes a "good" game is likely to be highly subjective, however it is worth mentioning that your description of what you think I am looking for is incorrect. I'm not keen on DFK that is true, but I quite like the other 5 or 6 shooters I've got, at least in the sense that I find them entertaining to play. DFK seems far harder and knowing the amount of time it would require to master I think it's important that I find the game appealing from the offset (which I don't for whatever reason).

[dunpeal2064]

Ok, you find Bullet Hell most appealing. What games do you like from this sub-genre? (I'm seriously interested!)

[Skykid]

"impossible" is just a word I use rather loosely. Don't take it too seriously. It is interchangeable with ridiculous, unreasonably difficult, probabilistically unlikely, and many other phrases for the purposes of this discussion.

But do you realise that all of those phrases only apply to you because of your current skill level? You band them about as if they're fact, when there's an overwhelming library of evidence to the contrary.

When/if you level up, you'll probably find the authoritarian tone of your statements as cringeworthy as we do; but at least you'll appreciate that, while these games are difficult, granted, that's what makes them so satisfying to conquer.

That's not ridiculous, unreasonable, unlikely or impossible: it's rewarding, and that's the sole reason why we all play them.

[Bananamatic]

Let's post some motivational songs for trouserplank

[RNGmaster]

Ok, you find Bullet Hell most appealing. What games do you like from this sub-genre? (I'm seriously interested!)

Prolly Bullet Soul...

[BIL]

Let's post some motivational songs for trouserplank

Here's a motivational gif for DTP and all the other shooter failures out there. Don't be like this guy folks!

[dunpeal2064]

Ok, you find Bullet Hell most appealing. What games do you like from this sub-genre? (I'm seriously interested!)

Prolly Bullet Soul...

I've asked him this multiple times. We all know that he likes bullet hell, but I don't know of a single one he finds well'made.

[RNGmaster]

This is what a 1cc sounds like.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I haven't played Bullet Soul, but it really doesn't look anywhere near as bad as people say. It's probably one I'll want to grab eventually.


There's the complaints about it being too easy, but if you were playing it as intended, it doesn't look like it'd be, and I'm sure most of that came from people playing near the bottom. And the autobomb is optional and hurts your scoring. And people seemed to expect something besides the proximity scoring and seemed disappointed it wasn't like a Ketsui 1.5. It also had the misfortune of being released the same day as Eschatos.

Seeing vids, I would think TrouserPlank would probably still complain about the game's bosses.



Now, on the subject of Daifukkatsu, I'm not feeling a meh at all. There are some things I dislike(Omote/Ura adds on to my general dislike of loops, hard to get second score extend unlike the other Pachis), but it's not a bad game. It's not an easy game if you're firing off lots of autobombs. I can 1-all, but I don't call the game easy cause I'm still getting hit a lot of the time. I don't like chaining in general and don't bother, but DFK still has the best version of it in the series. At the moment, I still like DOJ more though, but I like this one a lot too. And I'm sure I'll maybe learn how to handle the laser wheels someday and maybe how to get 10 billion. I haven't even had the chance to play Black Label yet either, and I'm sure I'll probably enjoy that too.

[ratikal]

This is what a 1cc sounds like.

This is what dying at the last second sounds like. :3

[xbl0x180]

No. Just as in music and movies, there are SHOWers and GROWers. There are instances where one may not like something right away, but over time one may GROW to like it. I thought that was the case with Strike Witches, but that game really is godawful and gets worse with time

I see, so I really need to put in the hours with these games in order to decide that I really don't like them. Maybe I should pre-emptively apply Minoxidil before starting in order to negate the copious amounts of hair loss through it being pulled out in frustration?

Futari and AKS managed to piss me off no end, so I'll look forward to spending an equally long and frustrating time with the next one I choose. I'm in a mind to give Espgaluda 2 a proper go because that has yet to annoy me. Futari I've written off, and the latter quarter of AKS is impossible.

You're the one choosing to feel fustrated while playing these games. For me, all games are about fun, blowing s*** up, admiring the graphics and music - the whole thing. I actually like that some of these games aren't patronising by allowing any dolt to win. It takes a certain amount of skill to pass them. It's tantamount to you complaining you can't run a marathon or 4-minute mile without the benefit of puttin' in the time it requires to achieve such a feat. Every hobby has it. Ever try catching an 800-lbs. blue fin tuna? You ain't gonna do it on your first hour of fishin'

[Drachenherz]

DrTrouserPlank:

What do you think about MushiFutari Novice-Mode and DDPRes Novice? Are those gamemodes more to your liking, or are they just boring, because they are too easy?

Why exactly do you play those impossible games?

And no, they are not impossible... I even managed to 1cc Mushi-Futari BL original. Not once, but... Twice! And I'd consider me as a shmup-beginner, not a pro at all, but no noob anymore.

If you get so frustrated by these games: Why do you play them?

[NTSC-J]

Because he likes them...in theory.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I "like" most of the shooters I've got but in many cases this will come with a quantifying statement along the lines of "but its too hard towards the end"

I've spent the most time on futari and it's good, but the chances of clearing the last two stages without many lost lives on a consistent basis (consistent enough for some of these runs to be 1cc) is very unlikely. Seeing as I've spent so long on this and am not anywhere near to clearing it (in terms of getting consistently to the end) I consider it to be too difficult.

AKS is the game I've probably spent the next longest with. I like this one as well. Stage 1, 2, 3 are all do-able, 4 is a bit hard and will lose you lives and 5 is complete donkey balls along with the two last bosses which are some of the most ridiculous things I've seen.

Espgaluda 2 is good, played it a bit. Have credit fed it so I've seen it all. Can't really say how hard it would be to clear properly haivng not worked past the third stage properly.

Deathsmiles is ok, ruined by the lack of a boss select in training mode. Were it not for this I'd make a serious attempt to clear this one.

pork/sweets, DOJ and DFK have had less of my time. Pork seems ok but pretty hard.

[Drachenherz]

DTP:

If you'd just add "for me", there wouldn't be so much fuss about your posts...

Because, as proven and stated before, those games aren't "too hard" in general, they are just "too hard for you"...

[Mero]

TrouserPlank, I'm crap at most bullet hell stuff aswell. Why don't you try some older games?

[Vamos]

I "like" most of the shooters I've got but in many cases this will come with a quantifying statement along the lines of "but its too hard towards the end"

I've spent the most time on futari and it's good, but the chances of clearing the last two stages without many lost lives on a consistent basis (consistent enough for some of these runs to be 1cc) is very unlikely. Seeing as I've spent so long on this and am not anywhere near to clearing it (in terms of getting consistently to the end) I consider it to be too difficult.

AKS is the game I've probably spent the next longest with. I like this one as well. Stage 1, 2, 3 are all do-able, 4 is a bit hard and will lose you lives and 5 is complete donkey balls along with the two last bosses which are some of the most ridiculous things I've seen.

Espgaluda 2 is good, played it a bit. Have credit fed it so I've seen it all. Can't really say how hard it would be to clear properly haivng not worked past the third stage properly.

Deathsmiles is ok, ruined by the lack of a boss select in training mode. Were it not for this I'd make a serious attempt to clear this one.

pork/sweets, DOJ and DFK have had less of my time. Pork seems ok but pretty hard.

Ever thought about you know practising? your whole approach and attitude will 100% guarantee you never get good at these games or basically anything .

[Drachenherz]

Basically, DTPs "problem" can be sumarized as this:

[DrTrouserPlank]

I've practiced plenty.

Practice allows you to get past the pieces that at first seem difficult, what it doesn't do is allow you to get past the pieces which follow those because they are (intentionally?) designed to empty your pockets rather than give you are realistic challenge to overcome.

[Vamos]

I've practiced plenty.

Practice allows you to get past the pieces that at first seem difficult, what it doesn't do is allow you to get past the pieces which follow those because they are (intentionally?) designed to empty your pockets rather than give you are realistic challenge to overcome.

And here we go again . Where exactly do you put the coins in on an xbox anyway? seriously you are a joke especially when this forum alone has so many people who can clear the games you claim impossible just think about that for a second.

[Drachenherz]

I've practiced incorrectly.

My way of practice allows me to get past the pieces that at first seem difficult, what it doesn't do is allow me to get past the pieces which follow those because they are too tricky to figure out for me and too big a challenge to overcome.

FTFY

[NzzpNzzp]

I've got R-type on XBLA but it doesn't do anything for me. I'm not a great fan of that style of shooters. I find bullet hell far more appealing (at least in theory)

No, that isn't true. You see, if you play R-Type, you have fun. This is true for me and so it's a fact and is true for everyone else in the entire world.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I've practiced incorrectly.

My way of practice allows me to get past the pieces that at first seem difficult, what it doesn't do is allow me to get past the pieces which follow those because they are too tricky to figure out for me and too big a challenge to overcome.

FTFY

Well I'm still waiting for this magical method of practice that others apparently use and is clear to everybody other than me to materialise. Apparently grinding the stages in practice mode until you want to puke isn't an effective way to practice.

Apparently the way I practice is wrong if there is such a thing, although I do make progress, it's just that the progress stops at the point at which the difficulty become ridiculous.

[Vamos]

Jesus you dont get it do you , even after acquiring a perfect practice method it still takes alot of time and work to get better . Prometheus has covered everything you need to know about practice methods in his downloadable guide , have you read it ?

[O. Van Bruce]

I've practiced plenty.

Practice allows you to get past the pieces that at first seem difficult, what it doesn't do is allow you to get past the pieces which follow those because they are (intentionally?) designed to empty your pockets rather than give you are realistic challenge to overcome.

Then practice MORE and get past those parts that you call "designed to empty your pockets"... and talking about futari, which is one of my favorite shmups, i started dying a lot on the 3rd stage as you, and it took me a month or so to get the hang of it. My actual challenge now is the 5th stage but from the very begining, i knew how to dodge and get past all of the diffciult parts, it's just a matter of practice and controlling your nerves.

So if you can't have fun with the sole fact of playing shmups (and that's how I play DDP Dai Ou Jou and Ketsui) or give yourself a good training on the shmup you would like to clear then don't ask what this genre have never had: an easy to clear game...

just think about how pointless would be... it takes halve an hour to make a CAVE game 1cc, some other shmups take it to 1 hour but that's extremely rare. If you can take someday your controller and on the 3rd or 4th attempt clear it, then, what is the fun? that's why this games are designed to be very challenging and time consuming. I know that sometimes can be very frustrating but if you can't manage that you will never have fun with this games.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

I think you guys are being too harsh on DrTrouserPlank. At least he doesn't toss around the term 'memorizer' like a total tool.