Gradius V is just beautiful

[BIL]

Furthermore, making it to the final stage requires a 100% hit rate on all stages (or close to it) and no deaths until the end.

You can reach the final mission with a couple of missed targets and deaths (unlike SS, which won't tolerate either and boots you out after the penultimate mission, unless you fall back on the limited restarts). You get to keep the S-Rank too, again unlike SS.

Neo's a very good action game, but it lacks the intensity a great one requires in my book. The controls and engine could've easily supported way more pressure than the majority of the game provides... there are some excellent bosses very late in (Cyber Red Falcon is badass, as is Giant Master Contra Head with the ghost clones and death countdown), but that should've been the midpoint rather than peak of the action.

[Ghegs]

No matter how crappy you are, you could easily learn the stages in SS through trial and error and complete them on 100% without taking a single hit. That takes much more skill in Neo Contra.

Not in my experience. It took me ~20 hours to S-rank clear Shattered Soldier while Neo Contra took only 8. Hence, much easier.

The unlockable weapon sets in Neo Contra were clearly put in as a crutch for unskilled/lazy players to breeze through the game, with the exception of Katana Jaguar, who actually makes things harder.

There's no reason to not use the powerful weapon sets. The game doesn't penalize you in any way for using them, nor does it differentiate between them when it comes to scoring, hit rate or unlocking stuff.

[dieKatze88]

There's no reason to not use the powerful weapon sets. The game doesn't penalize you in any way for using them, nor does it differentiate between them when it comes to scoring, hit rate or unlocking stuff.

Yeah there is, the fact of the matter is is that clearly anyone who uses any kind of power ups in any game at all is a complete wus. Clearly. </sarcasm>

That said, I still don't have the achievements for Hard Corps: Uprising complete, thanks to statements like the one right above, Arc System Works went ahead and included shit like "Beat the game while killing less than 50 dudes" and "Beat the game without picking up any powerups"

[Mortificator]

Neo Contra isn't very fun to me when I kill everything instantly with Type D, and I'd consider myself foolish if I played a game for any reason other than to have fun.

[Sumez]

No matter how crappy you are, you could easily learn the stages in SS through trial and error and complete them on 100% without taking a single hit. That takes much more skill in Neo Contra.

Not in my experience. It took me ~20 hours to S-rank clear Shattered Soldier while Neo Contra took only 8. Hence, much easier.

I'm certain you're extremely skilled with shmups (and games like it) in general though, which makes sense in the case of doing well at Neo Contra, which is designed with quick reflexes and core action game skills in mind.
Shattered Soldier is much more of a memorizer, making it more difficult to pick up and play, but once you learn the stages, it's really quite an easy game, IMO.

Also, Neo Contra doesn't require no-miss for an S rank.

There's no reason to not use the powerful weapon sets. The game doesn't penalize you in any way for using them, nor does it differentiate between them when it comes to scoring, hit rate or unlocking stuff.

Yeah, that's pretty dumb, but then again, the game doesn't have online leaderboards anyway. I don't think there's anything wrong with a little bit of self dicipline.

[Zaarock]

That said, I still don't have the achievements for Hard Corps: Uprising complete, thanks to statements like the one right above, Arc System Works went ahead and included shit like "Beat the game while killing less than 50 dudes" and "Beat the game without picking up any powerups"

Eh, they're optional challenges to make you play the game a little differently, no need to do them if you don't like it. The powerup one is sort of stupid but the pacifism one actually works pretty well because it makes you use the dodge mechanic properly which you might not use otherwise.

[Drum]

There's no reason to not use the powerful weapon sets. The game doesn't penalize you in any way for using them, nor does it differentiate between them when it comes to scoring, hit rate or unlocking stuff.

Yeah, that's pretty dumb, but then again, the game doesn't have online leaderboards anyway. I don't think there's anything wrong with a little bit of self dicipline.

While I (broadly) agree with this, I think I am one of, like, three people on the board who won't bite your face off for even suggesting it.

[Sumez]

Well no one's keeping people from using MAME and savestates to beat high scores in Dodonpachi then...

[Ghegs]

Shattered Soldier is much more of a memorizer, making it more difficult to pick up and play, but once you learn the stages, it's really quite an easy game, IMO.

Also, Neo Contra doesn't require no-miss for an S rank.

I don't think Neo Contra is fundamentally different here. It has been a while since I played it, but I seem to recall that all the enemies always spawn at the exact same place and the bosses go through their patterns the same way every time. When going for 100% hit rate you pretty much end up memorizing everything anyway.

Neo Contra's looser requirements for S-rank is one of the reasons it's easier overall. But I suspect the requirements were made easier to compensate for the camera/spindodge-problems I mentioned earlier.

To clarify, I do think Neo Contra is an alright action game and even a nice addition to the Contra series, even with its problems and not-standard-Contra-gameplay. I just don't think it's better than Shattered Soldier, which is what prompted me to reply to the thread in the first place.

Yeah, that's pretty dumb, but then again, the game doesn't have online leaderboards anyway. I don't think there's anything wrong with a little bit of self dicipline.

Of course, but that's a self-imposed restriction, the game doesn't recognize it. It would be like playing Gradius V and making the weakest/hardest to use weapon array possible in Weapon Edit. I'll be the first to admit that playing Neo Contra with weapon set A is more difficult than with set D, don't get me wrong. But when the game itself offers me these powerful weapons, without any cheats or codes or anything even resembling cheating, I don't see a reason to not use them. And I honestly had more fun playing the game with them than use the weaker sets that make the bosses take ages to beat.

[kevenz]

I bought Contra SS when it first came out...... this was was hard as hell at first, until I memorized every boss pattern then it went from very hard to very easy.

[BIL]

Neo isn't a particularly challenging game with the default weapons, either. I don't think I was even aware of the unlockables until I'd finished it, because I insisted on S-ranking missions 1-5 before moving on, and 6-7 are just a handful of fairly simple boss fights. The Flamethrower and Grenade sets both have considerable advantages of their own (bullet cancelling and speed killing). And I found the unlockables kind of goofy... a gun that shoots drills? Just my usual burner and infantry-splattering railgun, thanks.

Neo just needed tighter level design, literally. It's a fun game by virtue of the sharp controls and gratifying destruction, but enemies are generally sparse and rarely able to shoot, and it tends to place things like turrets and enemy generators in isolation to be leisurely picked off. Mission 3's opening is perfect - tight confines with pursuers at back, mortars above and gunners ahead, with turrets and barricades blocking the path. Contrast that ideal with Mission 5's Super Contra "killer floorvaginas" redux, an easter egg hunt for hitrate... I shouldn't be seeking out threats in an action game, I should be fighting to not get overrun by them.

All four Nobuya Nakazato-helmed Contras have this tendency to not fire on all cylinders 100% of the time. When they're good they're spectacular, but there are inevitably mediocre bits that some minor adjustments would bring back up to speed. Like just dumping the entire biker gang onscreen in Shattered Soldier's second stage and leaving the player to sort it out jumping and charge-shotting all the way, instead of sleep-inducingly trotting out one at a time - a true WTF lapse of quality immediately following the rather excellent Hard Corps train cannon redux.

[Sumez]

To clarify, I do think Neo Contra is an alright action game and even a nice addition to the Contra series, even with its problems and not-standard-Contra-gameplay. I just don't think it's better than Shattered Soldier, which is what prompted me to reply to the thread in the first place.

That's fine with me, cause I do like Shattered Soldier a lot better than Neo Contra. It just seems to me that Neo corrected a lot of the problems most other people had with SS.

[Quartrez]

I've been playing Gradius II on x68k just now - is it considered better than the 'Gradius Deluxe Pack' Saturn version?

also is there a specific remake of the MSX version you're talking about?

and for that matter - is Gradius II on the PCE CD the same game as the Saturn and X6800 one?

Thanks a lot for any help

It's been over a month since you've asked your question but no one seems to have answered so here I go...

Gradius II on x86k is, if I'm not mistaken, called Nemesis '90 Kai, which is a remake of Gradius 2 on MSX. Gradius 2 on MSX is not a port of Gradius II for the arcade (and consequently, for the PC Engine.)

Gradius II and Gradius 2 are not the same game at all, and since Nemesis '90 Kai is basically somewhat of a remake of Gradius 2 (MSX), it's not a port of the arcade version, so it cannot be compared to Gradius II on the Gradius Deluxe Pack.

... To make long things short :
- Gradius II on x86k is NOT called Gradius II, it's called Nemesis '90 Kai and it's a remake of Gradius 2 on MSX.
- Gradius 2 on MSX is a different game from the arcade version and the PCE version of Gradius II.
- The game included in the Gradius Deluxe Pack of the Sega Saturn is the arcade version of Gradius II.
- Nemesis '90 Kai and Gradius II being different games, cannot be compared in terms of ports.

[Raytrace]

I've been playing Gradius II on x68k just now - is it considered better than the 'Gradius Deluxe Pack' Saturn version?

also is there a specific remake of the MSX version you're talking about?

and for that matter - is Gradius II on the PCE CD the same game as the Saturn and X6800 one?

Thanks a lot for any help

It's been over a month since you've asked your question but no one seems to have answered so here I go...

Gradius II on x86k is, if I'm not mistaken, called Nemesis '90 Kai, which is a remake of Gradius 2 on MSX. Gradius 2 on MSX is not a port of Gradius II for the arcade (and consequently, for the PC Engine.)

Gradius II and Gradius 2 are not the same game at all, and since Nemesis '90 Kai is basically somewhat of a remake of Gradius 2 (MSX), it's not a port of the arcade version, so it cannot be compared to Gradius II on the Gradius Deluxe Pack.

... To make long things short :
- Gradius II on x86k is NOT called Gradius II, it's called Nemesis '90 Kai and it's a remake of Gradius 2 on MSX.
- Gradius 2 on MSX is a different game from the arcade version and the PCE version of Gradius II.
- The game included in the Gradius Deluxe Pack of the Sega Saturn is the arcade version of Gradius II.
- Nemesis '90 Kai and Gradius II being different games, cannot be compared in terms of ports.

Thank you very much for the comprehensive explanation Quartrez

[Spyke]

S' funny - I was looking for a Gradius post I could add to and this one pops up! I'm also completely new to Gradius. For some reason (whatever) I missed out on Nemesis/Gradius (all versions) for all of my life until now! How did that happen? No idea

Anyway, I got Gradius collection for PSP a few weeks ago and love all the versions on it - particularly Gaiden. Then I find out about GV and get it for PS2 and am completely blown away! For me it has the Gradius playability of the other games on PSP but in a gorgeously presented big-screen style. For me, Gradius Gaiden will be a purchase for the PS1 down the line if I can find a copy.

Does Gradius as a line have a future? Is there anything beyong Gradius V?

Ant

[NzzpNzzp]

Yes.

It looks like this

[Estebang]

Yeah, with the PS3 Gradius VI having been canceled, Aoba is the current face of the series.