new to the genre

[beatsgo]

points to start so far:

...takumi *...

I was referring to Takumi games such as Mars Matrix and Gigawing.

[Herr Schatten]

The big problem with Mushihimesama is that the PS2 port is utter crap

You're exaggerating. Vastly. The port doesn't look as nice as the PCB, and it has the occasional annoying stutter-slowdown, but it's perfectly playable. If you're not out for an arcade-perfect experience, these are pretty much non-issues. It's a fine game, and Original mode is definitely a good starting point for beginners.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

How does Mushi Ps2 play emulated? Does it fix some of the slowdown issues? Not that ild play it, im holding off in hope CAVE release that 360 bundle

@OP For more Kenta Cho like shooters theres ScoreRush on XBLIG and the 2 Space Invader games on XBLA

[Kollision]

The big problem with Mushihimesama is that the PS2 port is utter crap

Stop this nonsense at once.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the port.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's this kind of attitude that helps sink the genre even further than it is right now, borderline condemned to handheld and mobile ghettos.
Considering a game "utter crap" for being a little different from an OMG holy shiny untouchable golden shrine-bound PCB that most people will net get the chance to play is downright mischievous.

[mesh control]

points to start so far:

...takumi *...

I was referring to Takumi games such as Mars Matrix and Gigawing.

Mars Matrix is a good start for score attacking. The system is very instinctive, unlike most cave games that have been mentioned.
Giga Wing 2 is also great fun.


Those 2 games + Gunbird 2 on the DC are what propelled me into the genre.

[Skykid]

The big problem with Mushihimesama is that the PS2 port is utter crap

Stop this nonsense at once.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the port.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's this kind of attitude that helps sink the genre even further than it is right now, borderline condemned to handheld and mobile ghettos.
Considering a game "utter crap" for being a little different from an OMG holy shiny untouchable golden shrine-bound PCB that most people will net get the chance to play is downright mischievous.

Utter crap is overdoing it, I agree, but it must be said it's quite a bit harder than the original owing to a lack of/entirely different slowdown patches.
Arrange mode is the shit though, I love it.

How does Mushi Ps2 play emulated? Does it fix some of the slowdown issues? Not that ild play it, im holding off in hope CAVE release that 360 bundle

You're an optimistic fella eh Trev?

[NZA]

I second Jamestown. I'm more of a novice myself and I felt compelled to play nonstop. It wasn't too punishing and had tons of challenges that taught you the game mechanics which then helped you with the campaign mode.

[Kewne]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the port.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's this kind of attitude that helps sink the genre even further than it is right now, borderline condemned to handheld and mobile ghettos.
Considering a game "utter crap" for being a little different from an OMG holy shiny untouchable golden shrine-bound PCB that most people will net get the chance to play is downright mischievous.

It's utter crap because changing a few bytes on the disc would've given you proper graphics but the porters were seemingly too incompetent to do so. You're probably forgetting how seriously washed out the graphics are without said patch; it's really borderline unplayable with everything blending into everything else. Far from something that I can let stand as recommended to a newbie when there's a billion other games available that are just as good to start off with.

And please, bashing an old port that really is terrible isn't "downright mischievous", nor does it help sink the genre.

How does Mushi Ps2 play emulated? Does it fix some of the slowdown issues? Not that ild play it, im holding off in hope CAVE release that 360 bundle

Takes some setup to work and you'll end up running it at 30 displayed FPS or with the game bouncing one line up and down every frame. Enabling even the "safe" speedhacks can totally break the slowdown further. You can fix the emulator-induced bouncing by messing with the interlacing settings and you can fix the port-induced graphics issues by setting scaling to 2x Native (both are in the GS plugin settings). The combination of these three factors require you to have a rather good PC, one that's certainly capable of emulating the game in MAME.

[Erppo]

Choosing Mushi over Futari is bad idea anyway since Futari is a better game in almost every regard. You have BL Original that's easier first clear than anything in Mushi and the scoring systems are way more intuitive and easier to get into. Futari is definitely the game I'd recommend first for anyone interested in modern shmups.

[Teufel_in_Blau]

Futari is just sooo good. I played Futari without having any idea of the scoring and I could still enjoy it. The slowdowns are kinda awkward and maybe something you have to get used to first.

Just play DoDonPachi in Mame or Instant Brain, lol. It's an awesome game and every shmuper should have enjoyed it.

[blackoak]

I second the original Espgaluda if you like Cave. The kakusei "bullet time" feature helps you learn and identify patterns more than any other bullet hell out there, and the final boss really isn't that bad imo. The scoring system is also easy to understand but with enough depth/flexibility to be fun.

The usual starting point of DDP, which has suprisingly not been advocated much this thread, is a fine game to start with as well... the bullet patterns are pretty classic (not as "modern", ie psychedelic/artistic/surreal as later Cave games though), good sized hitbox, pacing, reasonable difficulty. But you'll probably be frustrated by the chaining system as a beginner, and the difficulty is "easy" to the extent there are a lot of bombs given, but just liberally bombing to a 1cc won't improve your abilities.

I happen to think Futari is pretty tough, but that's a minority opinion... beautiful and very fun game though (first game where I really enjoyed the scoring system off the bat, in original mode at least).

[RNGmaster]

Just play DoDonPachi in Mame or Instant Brain, lol. It's an awesome game and every shmuper should have enjoyed it.

wat

[Acid_Rain]

list has been updated.
and thanks for all the helpful tips and discussions.

[Paradigm]

wat

Can you not read?

[Teufel_in_Blau]

wat

I mean that everyone who likes shmups, should give DoDonPachi a try or should have played it. If my grammar is wrong feel free to correct me. I don't take it personal, it's the only way to learn this language.

[RNGmaster]

wat

I mean that everyone who likes shmups, should give DoDonPachi a try or should have played it. If my grammar is wrong feel free to correct me. I don't take it personal, it's the only way to learn this language.

That's perfectly all right. However, what you said was that everyone should have enjoyed it, and I guess that means I'm not a shmupper since I hate Dodonpachi.

[Teufel_in_Blau]

Ah, ok.

Yes, in retrospect this was the wrong term. I just assumed that DDP is loved throughout the whole Forum. It seems I was wrong.

[xbl0x180]

Ah, ok.

Yes, in retrospect this was the wrong term. I just assumed that DDP is loved throughout the whole Forum. It seems I was wrong.

In general, the game is loved by shoot-'em-up fanatics. I think it's a safe recommendation for anyone new to the scene

[AntiFritz]

Futari is just sooo good. I played Futari without having any idea of the scoring and I could still enjoy it. The slowdowns are kinda awkward and maybe something you have to get used to first.

Just play DoDonPachi in Mame or Instant Brain, lol. It's an awesome game and every shmuper should have enjoyed it.

Yeah because everyone is gonna enjoy such anal scoring mechanics like enemy chaining.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

My favorite part about DDP: having a butt rock soundtrack that loops every 3 stages, every 20 seconds.

... Though to be fair, I can't think of any rock shmup soundtrack that sounded good except for R-Type III. :S

[finisherr]

My favorite part about DDP: having a butt rock soundtrack that loops every 3 stages, every 20 seconds.

... Though to be fair, I can't think of any rock shmup soundtrack that sounded good except for R-Type III. :S

How else are you going to feel like you're Tom Cruise in Top Gun?

[xbl0x180]

The soundtrack to Gate Of Thunder is one of the most Rockin' music scores ever made for a video game \m/

[Herr Schatten]

It's utter crap because changing a few bytes on the disc would've given you proper graphics but the porters were seemingly too incompetent to do so.

That is unfortunate, yes.

it's really borderline unplayable with everything blending into everything else.

It really isn't. If you seriously think that in Mushi things blend into each other to the point the game becomes less than perfectly playable, you either need your screen checked, or your eyes, or both. I can understand if someone is annoyed by the nature of the slowdown, but the graphics? Please.

Now, if you were talking about Ibara on PS2, that would be a whole other thing. For Yagawa, bullet visibility has never really been a top priority, and the PS2 port does indeed make things worse. (Flamethrowers, anyone?) Even there, I wouldn't use the word 'unplayable', though.

Utter crap is overdoing it, I agree, but it must be said it's quite a bit harder than the original owing to a lack of/entirely different slowdown patches.
Arrange mode is the shit though, I love it.

Are you sure you're not talking about Ibara, too? In that case, I'd actually totally agree with you.

[Vamos]

The port crapness is blown so far out of proportion , I never had a problem with either sure they wernt arcade perfect but they did a good enough job . If ACR can get a V score on the ibara port then it cant be unplayable surely , people just whine to much imo .Kewne you just sound more like someone who doesnt know how to set shit up to get the best out of it .

[evil_ash_xero]

I think I'll go with Mushihimesama Futari, because I enjoy vertical over horizontal shmups.

Forget starting with Futari, all the guys who discovered shmups and joined the board right after its release always tout it as a perfect entry level example when it isn't.

Mushihimesama, its predecessor, with its original mode score requirements being as base as they come and the difficulty being significantly softer than Futari, is far better to pop your cherry. It's also ravenously fun from the get go, and it's in Mame. I'd clear that first, then go for Futari (and play 1.5 original if you're only concerned with a clear rather than a score, Black Label won't challenge you enough in the survival dept.)

See you on the scoreboards.

I dunno, I think it's a pretty good starting level game. ESPGaluda would be, if it wasn't for how the difficulty jacks up, and then the last boss...ugh.. Futari has more "oomph" too.

[Skykid]

Utter crap is overdoing it, I agree, but it must be said it's quite a bit harder than the original owing to a lack of/entirely different slowdown patches.
Arrange mode is the shit though, I love it.

Are you sure you're not talking about Ibara, too? In that case, I'd actually totally agree with you.

Ibara's a much worse port, definitely. The discrepancies in Mushi are no way near as game breaking as they are in that.

Mushi PS2 is playable alright, it's just a harder game to tackle IIRC (there was a time I used to play it in Casino and then play the port and get real frustrated.)

And to reiterate: why the heck original Mushi gets so much bad press (full stop) is beyond me. It's incredibly fun with superb patterns. Only real prob I have with it is the tap tap scoring on anything outside of original mode.

[emphatic]

I say try out Twin Cobra, use the Blue weapon and bomb as soon as you encounter something mildly deadly. Bombing a lot doesn't affect your final score negatively at all, you get lots of extra lives and the music and graphics are wonderful. Sure, the hitbox is bigger than in modern shmups, but just move around a lot to avoid dying.

Storm Blade is another nice shmup for getting into the genre.

[Kewne]

It really isn't. If you seriously think that in Mushi things blend into each other to the point the game becomes less than perfectly playable, you either need your screen checked, or your eyes, or both. I can understand if someone is annoyed by the nature of the slowdown, but the graphics? Please.

Now, if you were talking about Ibara on PS2, that would be a whole other thing. For Yagawa, bullet visibility has never really been a top priority, and the PS2 port does indeed make things worse. (Flamethrowers, anyone?) Even there, I wouldn't use the word 'unplayable', though.

Actually I've been thinking about this some more and just realized that the crappy LCD screen I used to connect my PS2 and SNES to does some form of out-of-ratio stretching with the way I had my PS2 connected... and I've only used it with that setup for Mushi, never really thinking to question it because the video was supposed to be bad. PCSX2 normal makes everything worse somehow. So yeah, ignore all that because I'm an idiot. I drew you this turtle within a minute if not 30 seconds in MS paint to make up for it.

As for going back on-topic, the Gradius III SNES port is quite approachable for a checkpoint-based non-bullet-hell shmup while still having a decent enough sense of difficulty. I don't really recommend it to start out with, but once you start looking into playing older games, it's pretty good. Just don't look at the arcade game/PS2 port of the arcade game because those are the very opposite of approachable.

[Acid_Rain]

Two more questions:

1) Is there a complete list for xbox360 shumps anywhere on the forum?

2) Is Instant Brain region locked?

[Deca]

I'm going to give the same recommendation I always do, cover your bases between companies to decide what style you enjoy and then go from there.

Dodonpachi (Cave)
Armed Police Batrider (Raizing)
Giga Wing (Takumi)
Gunbird 2 (Psikyo)

Play those and figure out which one you like the most, and then look into other games by that company, pick a game to stick with until you 1cc it, and then figure out where you want to go from there.