Devil's Third- Itagaki's new game

[iconoclast]

I consider him one of the casualties of Japan's "let's fire or lose our best guys" syndrome. Capcom and Tecmo...I'm looking at you.

Itagaki wasn't fired, he walked out of Tecmo after finishing NGII. The sexual harrassment suit might have had something to do with it, but knowing the man, it was probably a publicity stunt.

Ninja Gaiden Black and II are some of the best 3D action-adventure games out there and it's no mistake that NGIII has been shown to be utterly abysmal. Rampant QTEs, kindergarten-level difficulty, camera that always points you in the right direction, enemies that flee in terror from you...none of this would have happened on his watch. Did you know he's a graduate of law school!

Pretty sure the sexual harassment suit was settled before he left Tecmo. He quit (and sued them) because he didn't get the money he was promised for DOA4. And he took all of the talented members of Team Ninja with him, so that explains why NG3 looks bad. (It also explains why Sigma 2 was a downgrade from the original)

[DragonInstall]

It also explains why Tecmo just ports or modifies old games Itagaki made to get some more money rather than create new ideas. Ever since he left with his crew, Tecmo has been pretty lackluster.

A pretty dick move for Tecmo to not pay him the bonus he was promised for Doa4. He was also found innocent of the sexual suit.

[Estebang]

Somehow, Quantum Theory ended up being really good without Itagaki. Too bad no one was able to look past its Gears-clone status. (It actually rips off Kentarou Miura's Berserk more than Gears.)

[kid aphex]

Love your podcast btw.

Thank you very much



Anyways, here's another terrible Itagaki interview re: Devil's Third

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6 ... evils_.php

[Estebang]

So there's a sizable number of Western developers at Valhalla Games.

I'm wary of this, if only because of how shitty Shadows of the Damned turned out. Whose idea was it to hand over Suda and Mikami's lovechild to some unknown Italian hack?

Platinum has Westerners too--and Bayonetta/Vanquish were distinctly "meh," while MadWorld was outright awful.

[ebarrett]

So there's a sizable number of Western developers at Valhalla Games.

I'm wary of this, if only because of how shitty Shadows of the Damned turned out. Whose idea was it to hand over Suda and Mikami's lovechild to some unknown Italian hack?

Platinum has Westerners too--and Bayonetta/Vanquish were distinctly "meh," while MadWorld was outright awful.

Wow, "western = meh", that's some deep shit right there.

[Skykid]

As much as I enjoyed Bayonetta, I could have done without it's...look, music, and quirks.

Same here.

This looks quite interesting though. If the multiplayer gameplay is as fast and free as it is in the trailer, it should be a lot of fun. Kind of reminds me of a bloodthirsty Outtrigger for some reason.

[kid aphex]

Bayonetta = Meh? Jesus...

[iconoclast]

It's pretty good for a combo game, but it's no Ninja Gaiden.

[kid aphex]

It's pretty good for a combo game, but it's no Ninja Gaiden.

*help*

[Estebang]

Wow, "western = meh", that's some deep shit right there.

I was specifically referring to games by Japanese studios where Westerners were directly involved in development. That was in no way intended to be some idiotic "LOL Western games suck" statement.

Then again, Hudson's excellent Omega Five was a Japanese/American co-production, and Sine Mora looks pretty fun, so I guess it only applies to big-budget retail releases.

[kid aphex]

Wow, "western = meh", that's some deep shit right there.

Then again, Hudson's excellent Omega Five was a Japanese/American co-production,

I'd like to hear more about this

[Estebang]

There's about an equal number of Japanese and American names in Omega Five's development credits. Natsume's studios in Nagoya and the US both worked on it.

[Skykid]

Wow, "western = meh", that's some deep shit right there.

Then again, Hudson's excellent Omega Five was a Japanese/American co-production,

I'd like to hear more about this

I want to hear more about Bayonetta. Are you saying it was a JP/US co production?

That would explain so much.

[Estebang]

Not to the same extent--there are a few Westerners at Platinum with development roles, but I wouldn't call it a "co-production."

Anyway, the solidest example of what I'm getting at is Shadows of the Damned. It was first announced as Suda's pet project "Kurayami," which was set to be an Ueda-style grim and artsy adventure based on the Kafka story "The Castle." When its publisher ended up being EA, it was sexed up (tits and jokes about bestiality!), juiced up (Duke Nukem-caliber guns!), and dumbed down (light attack that stuns enemies and reveals their weakpoint!). The Kafka association was dumped, and some random Italian dude was placed in the director's seat, along with other Westerners. And it was shit. It's not too much to assume that Suda and Mikami were left with nothing more than conceptual and supervising roles.

[Zaarock]

That would explain so much.

Eh, I don't see how..

Also about Bayonetta, kamiya has done a playthrough with some great commentary, they're getting english translations fairly slowly but steadily: http://platinumgames.com/tag/developer-commentary/

Definitely worth watching at least the first few if you like his games, are interested in his thoughts on game development and/or info about bayonettas development. Mainly a lot of explanations on design decisions and thoughts on game development.

Found it surprisingly good, best video game developer commentary I've seen (not that it's something I look for). Probably like 10 videos behind now though, heh.

[Strider77]

Shadows of the Damned, Bayonetta, and Vanquish were all awesome. Especially Bayonetta... blows my mind that folks find it "meh".

Shadows of the Damned is far from shit... that's retardly harsh.

Considering Bayonetta's budget and the size of the team it has no excuse to look as good as it does. 60 frames per second is in short supply these days and there was so much fun stuff in there... like hauling ass down the highway to after burner music and riding a missle to space harrier music not to mention an awesome combat engine.

And this westerner BS is just that... BS. Look at the credits and see how many western names are there.

[Zaarock]

Shadows of the Damned, Bayonetta, and Vanquish were all awesome. Especially Bayonetta... blows my mind that folks find it "meh".

I sort of disagree on Vanquish.. rant ahead:

I liked the game a lot when it came out, but I never get the urge to play it again after I realized that you are 95% reliant on completely random item drops/boxes. The game also clearly lacks the level of polish Bayonetta had (this probably being a part of that). Feels like a lot of failed potential which makes me not want to play the game again.

Sure, there is challenge mode but the main game is much more fun for me, along with the scoring mechanics that work pretty well in it.. But yeah, as is your runs potential will differ hugely just because of randomness. I actually had the best score for normal mode for a couple days which was fun to do at the time but trying to improve with huge randomness isn't fun.

I tried to do a no random drops run a couple months ago but it stopped short as I ran out of ammo in the middle of the sequence where you rescue the marines. The only things that aren't random are weapons on weapon stands and the stuff lying around in the last boss fight (heh). If someone can prove that you can do it without running out of ammo (without suiciding or dying) I'd love to know. I'd even be pretty happy with an infinite ammo cheat lol, at least that would allow for speedrunning.

[CMoon]

Vanquish desperately needs a viable melee game, consistent drops, customizable upgrades, and a weapon upgrade system that didn't punish you for using weapons you like. Vanquish is a real lost opportunity. Could have been gold, but is ultimately a rental.

[DragonInstall]

Vanquish is a game with so much potential. I wish they would make a sequel.

Too bad melee is actually worthless, and they bothered to add different attacks by what weapon you had also. Owells.. at least the melee for the assault rifle was cool. Mash B to attack like a super saiyan.

[evil_ash_xero]

Vanquish desperately needs a viable melee game, consistent drops, customizable upgrades, and a weapon upgrade system that didn't punish you for using weapons you like. Vanquish is a real lost opportunity. Could have been gold, but is ultimately a rental.

All those things would have added depth to the game, and made it better...however, I think it's a kick-ass game, and certainly not "just a rental". I mean, I play tons of older games, that don't have any of those things, and they're still awesome. But you're right, that those things would make it better, and more re-playable.

[Zaarock]

Too bad melee is actually worthless,

Heh, it's actually very useful for one thing: d-pad for HMG + B = jump button (can go to slow-mo from it)
And the disk launcher melee is actually pretty amazing for some things and does big damage. But yeah, failed potential. I doubt there will actually be a sequel (though the ending does hint to one)

edit: God Hard mode is worth playing through, but it doesn't feel like the "main game" as you can't really speed around. Definitely a fun challenge though. here is the old vanquish thread, probably don't have anything more to add here: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... &start=120

[iconoclast]

I think melee is fine how it is; they clearly want you shooting enemies instead of running up to them and smacking them, but you can still use it as a last resort to get some guys off of you if you're being overwhelmed - kinda like a bomb in shmup. (Or you can use the Disk Launcher to melee enemies without draining your shield. Or empty melee with the HMG to jump into the air and enter slowmo) But yes, consistent weapon drops would definitely make the campaign better. The weapon upgrade system could have been better as well, but in the end I just look at it as a free bonus for the lower difficulties, since God Hard doesn't allow upgrades at all. I don't really care about customization either, but I guess it wouldn't hurt if it's done right.

I also think the scoring system could be a lot better, since it's pretty exploitable as it is. But honestly, that doesn't bother me too much either, since the core gameplay is so solid. It's kinda like Ninja Gaiden II, which has a scoring system that's 10x more broken than Vanquish's, but it's still incredibly fun anyway because the combat is so good. (Unless you do a karma run, then it's straight torture)

So in the end, Vanquish certainly has its fair share of problems, but I still can't think of a better single player TPS. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

[Strider77]

Don't get me wrong ... I can see why folks wouldn't claim they are all perfect 10 games. However they all tons of fun to play and above most of whats out there or at least higher up than most. I love action games and these are all fun to play and actually have some sort of depth.

[CMoon]

I know this is going to sound dumb, but I guess I think a little less of the Platinum games because they aren't God Hand and because none of them offer that kind of replay or depth.

I really wanted to love Vanquish, but ultimately the game mechanics felt too limited. Also, and this is my own personal quirk, the only bullets I want to dodge should be pink, purple or blue and rather slow moving. I just really hate all these gunfire simulators. Seriously, there's no part of me that even wants to pretend to be in a real warfare situation. I'd be happier seeing kids playing sex simulators than all this call of doody junk.

[Zaarock]

none of them offer that kind of replay or depth.

Pretty sure Bayonetta does? I guess it's a matter of preference but I think the combat systems allow for at least the same amount of freedom.

@Strider77: I agree, I just won't really think of Vanquish as a classic because it's not something I'll replay every once in a while. Bayonetta on the other hand I will and it'll probably be one of the best action games of this gen (and most polished release maybe with all kinds of games being released unfinished nowadays..)

I need to try to continue my Mentor run on Ninja Gaiden II again, it's a great game.. just extremely punishing :p

[evil_ash_xero]

God Hand....God Hand...God Hand...You know what..... I didn't like it!

It's goofier than Bayonetta.

I'll jump out of here, before everyone stones me to death.

[Zaarock]

It's goofier than Bayonetta.

..so?

[Skykid]

I know this is going to sound dumb, but I guess I think a little less of the Platinum games because they aren't God Hand and because none of them offer that kind of replay or depth.

That's how I feel, and for me the order of discovery was Bayonetta first and then God Hand. Despite being underwhelmed by Bayonetta, I took to God Hand immediately (game is crazy difficult though.)

Vanquish was okay. Nothing Platinum has done is a 10/10 imo, but we'll leave it there before it becomes a modern journalism/power of PR debate.

[kid aphex]

Bayonetta has no depth? What is going on here ... ?

Bayonetta's bizarre direction might irk some people, and that's understandable, but the amount of work put into the game is UNMATCHED in the industry
I've yet to find a game, this gen or last (or simply other), that matches Bayo's depth in terms of mechanics OR design
Mechanics are a subjective thing, this I understand. IF you hate their feel, that's your right. But to criticize the depth of them ... ?
In Bayonetta's case, that's just ignorant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch1U73QXTsY

TEN different weapons, each with an entirely different mechanic, afford the player with a choice in playstyle that, by sheer number, blow every other actions game's offerings out of the water. Add to that several unlockables that change the game entirely, tons of outfits, extra stages, boss battles, challenge room levels that are difficult and interesting ... I seriously don't know what else a person expects from a game?

And none of this says anything about the creative depth of the game which unbelievably, dwarfs the depth of the mechanics