Salamander - what a b*****d

DC906270 · Post by **DC906270** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:37 pm

Is it me or is this game infuriatingly annoying???? its not even particularly difficult in terms of "skill" either it's just sometimes SOOOOOOOOOOO unfair

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:25 pm

i think its incredible.. but yeah sure its a little cheap sometimes.

cant believe this came out in '86, fantastic game.

Post by **Ghegs** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:31 pm

I don't think it's unfair at all, aside from the changing behavior going on with Stage 4's boss. And even that can be countered.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:46 pm

The obvious question is... Which one are you referring to? Arcade? NES? MSX?

theevilfunkster · Post by **theevilfunkster** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:41 pm

I'm fine with the arcade Salamander but MSX salamander and Nes Life Force kick my ass.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:05 pm

hows msx salamander?

difference between arcade and nes is huge...

theevilfunkster · Post by **theevilfunkster** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:38 pm

sven666 wrote:hows msx salamander?

difference between arcade and nes is huge...

Jerky. I've not got past the first level.

DC906270 · Post by **DC906270** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:08 am

The obvious question is... Which one are you referring to? Arcade? NES? MSX?

I'm referring to the PC Engine hucard version - i also have the Saturn version on the Deluxe pack. i think i prefer the PCE version.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:18 am

theevilfunkster wrote:
sven666 wrote:hows msx salamander?

difference between arcade and nes is huge...
Jerky. I've not got past the first level.

Scrolling may not be super smooth, but at least it's so called jerkyness is "constant" and not "irregular".
It also has an extra stage (similar to MSX Nemesis 2's last stage, but with another "extra". This extra stage can only be accessed when Nemesis 2 is in the second cartridge slot though (this makes reaching the extra stage in the Konami MSX collections for Saturn and PSX impossible afaik!).

Oh and my only shmupwise claim to fame is 1 life-ing MSX Salamander.

Lyle · Post by **Lyle** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:17 pm

I think the arcade version of Salamander has aged rather badly. Levels are too short, too easy and simple in terms of level design, and it's a bit rough technically compared to other shmups of its time. Same thing for S2, though it's technically much better. It's no surprise Konami were sensible enough to re-work the Famicom port and make it an original, and therefore brilliant game.

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:55 pm

FC Salamander > arcade

Even though the FC version is a hell lot more easier, I think its much more polished and completed compare to the other versions.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:17 am

I'm referring to the PC Engine hucard version - i also have the Saturn version on the Deluxe pack. i think i prefer the PCE version.

PCE version is harder in places - the walls at the end of the first level for instance, rebuild themselves more quickly than on the arcade, leading to many a cheap death. Plus, it features chewckpoints, which totally ruined the pacing of the arcade.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:38 am

Marc wrote:
I'm referring to the PC Engine hucard version - i also have the Saturn version on the Deluxe pack. i think i prefer the PCE version.
PCE version is harder in places - the walls at the end of the first level for instance, rebuild themselves more quickly than on the arcade, leading to many a cheap death. Plus, it features chewckpoints, which totally ruined the pacing of the arcade.

The checkpoints are a sacrilege in my book, since the arcade version didn't have them. With this version being otherwise good, that's a shame.

I find Salamander easy up until the 4th boss which I will refer to as "The Wall". After that, the 5th stage is almost Gradius III hard. If you don't have options, you likely won't be able to stop the circular convergence attacks.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:21 pm

i guess im the onlyone who prefers the arcade version...

i like the short stages, gives the game a more intense feeling, and instant respawn kicks chekpoint ass!, i also like the way you can pick up your options gradius V stylie..

my biggest gripe with FC salamander is that.. well.. they basically just mapped salamanders graphics over gradius and released it, weak!, tho the game is still great.
its also ridiculosly unbalanced, die once and you havent got a prayer to finish, powerup fully and youre breezing thru the whole thing..

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:32 pm

I agree with sven666, the arcade is more balanced... The NES version is quite longer and difficulty has not been toned down. I doubt I can go through it without the thirty lives code.

I still have to try the MSX game, but from I heard, it's so hard it's not funny!

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:15 pm

My real issue with Salamander (and I can only speak of the arcade version) is the beginning of the 5th level when millions of enemies swarm you. I know there are secret spots to be at when this happens, but I've never actually survived it, and finally gave up out of frustration. As great as Salamander is, I wish it did not have to revert to these tactics (and never mind that 4th stage boss!)

zaphod · Post by **zaphod** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:38 pm

Level 5 is not that bad, provided you didnt' die in level 4.
The laser makes mincemeat of the enemy swarms.

I believe the trick to surviving the streams was to charge thefront of the screen, and assuming you had the laser and options you could pretty easily take on one stream (or both, if it was a 2 player game.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:41 pm

Salamander on MSX is BITCHly hard. It's one of the most difficuly shmups in the system for sure.

I have finished it a lot of times playing it with my sister and invecibility cheat

I havent played the NES version too much, but I think both are similar in the gameplay (You get a power-up bar like Gradius), but after level 2 things go very different (I am guessing here, I havent played the NES version enough). The MSX version has intermissions between certain levels, and there are 3 levels that you can choose in what order to take them.

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:28 pm

Turrican wrote:I agree with sven666, the arcade is more balanced... The NES version is quite longer and difficulty has not been toned down. I doubt I can go through it without the thirty lives code.

Hard? The NES version? You gotta be kidding me.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:01 am

MSZ wrote:Hard? The NES version? You gotta be kidding me.

You find it easier than the arcade?

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:34 am

Turrican wrote:
MSZ wrote:Hard? The NES version? You gotta be kidding me.
You find it easier than the arcade?

Not try to be a smart ass or something, but I have one-lifed the NES version many times. The arcade version is more difficult to me, but its still not Gradius-difficult.

zaphod · Post by **zaphod** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:49 am

yeah, i mamaged to 1cc nes life force back in the day as well. it's a memorization shooter at heart, except for the bosses, and most of the bosses are just not that bad. in fact i think i one-lifed it up to the shrinking gates are (that part ALWAYS gets me at least once)

arcade is a LOT harder, with the brutal stage 4 boss, and level 6 gets VERY busy, especially if you mnage to one life it there.

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:53 am

A few years ago when I was getting back into the NES scene, Life Force was one of the first games I bought. It wouldn't be years later what I really realized what it was; for a long time I never had the patience to get past Stage 1.

You know, come to think, I've never even beaten this game yet -- but only because my NES keeps shitting out on me

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:03 am

Except for some cheap spots in the arcade version (they've pretty much all been pointed out previously elsethread), I don't find either of them terribly difficult. The NES version might keep you on your toes more (hey, I actually have to move in the fire stage now!?!), but rarely descends into the arcade version's cheapness, so I agree with it being the easier of the two.

(The NES's final speed zone is much easier to deal with as well, despite being a bit longer.)

EDIT: link fixed.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:59 am

Hmm. Perhaps it's just that I'm not good at endurance tests, and NES Salamander has been made much longer. I 1cced the arcade at default settings, and the only stage I had to practice was the last one.