Outputting to HDTV on a budget?

[zaphod]

I have a number of consoles that, well look like kuso on a hdtv.

The only way i can get anything reasonably lagless is to use game mode at the native resolution (1080p)

So the questions remains is how to convert composite/svideo to 1080p for use with game mode?

Consoles i may wish to hook up.

NES
SNES
PS2
N64
Dreamcast (maybe)
Turbo Duo.
Jaguar (Tempest 2k rules!)

I'm looking for something sub 100$ if possible.

Options i've heard of

HD BOX PRO. Supposedly this thing upscales pretty well when given a 480p signal, but presumably lags some when given anything else. BUt it's cheap.
Other random cheap composite to hdmi converters. Some of these appear to do 1080p, but again the lag is unknown.
Just buy a damn crt from a thriftstore.

The "Frame meister" sounds like a good choice, but it's not out yet, and probably somewhat expensive, though hopefully cheaper then an xrgb.

[beatsgo]

Fudoh has a great guide on upscaling converters. There's even a list of general prices for each component with their respective insights, pros, and cons.

[Specineff]

The Dreamcast can output VGA with the right cable/box. Doesn't work for all games, but you're covered for most. Looks fantastic on an HDTV that can accept that type of input.

[beatsgo]

The Dreamcast can output VGA with the right cable/box. Doesn't work for all games, but you're covered for most. Looks fantastic on an HDTV that can accept that type of input.

zaphod, if you haven't gotten a vga box yet, definitely worth buying it for you dreamcast. Amazon sells them for about $22 new. Here's a reference for compatible dreamcast games in VGA mode, though it's better googling it because I can't link iso/rom websites that has the lastest updated list.
Oh it makes Mars Mat.....GAH! Still looks fugly!

[zaphod]

A VGA box will not help for the dreamcast, since i doubt the vga games will output 1080p, and i need to upscale this in less than one frame to remove the lag.

I've read that guide, and it doesn't have actual lag information for the hd box pro or the other cheap ones, except to say that when it doesn't have to deinterlace it's lag free, and that it's the only decent option for it's price. Plus it only accepts component, which means no nes/snes, as far as I know.

It would be nice if there was a simple chart showing all the relevant information.

Nowhere does it really say in his summary how to hook up a NES or even a SNES on a budget.

[Fudoh]

As said (many times before), I don't know any TVs which are actually slower if fed 480p via VGA than 1080p via HDMI. The scaling engine isn't what takes time, it's the processing and deinterlacing for interlaced material.

[zaphod]

Well there's a first time for everything.

Seriously, upscaling 720p to 1080p causes lag on that samsung TV. WHy would 480p be any different, when the math on that one is even worse then 720 to 1080? (9/4 vs 3/2)

[Endymion]

Sounds like a crap tv to avoid then, have you actually done time lapse tests? Are you sure you have turned off options that could cause lag?

[neorichieb1971]

Agreed, when the TV is causing a lot of hassle causing this type of thread in a forum it means you bought a TV not suitable for the job you want to do. However, the TV companies do not state the type of stats that mean anything in the gaming world. I bought my TV on independent reviews based on gaming feeds and it scored highly. But my TV was far from the cheapest in its size (probably double the cheapest). I can understand where size/lag/inputs and all that need to be balanced. Not many TV's have 10 inputs, great upscaling, lagless gaming for a low budget.

[zaphod]

I am not equipped for time lapse tests, but rhythm games give a pretty good feel for lag. It was seriously messing up my attempts to play dj hero.

As I said, only game mode in native resolution appears to work. Not even game mode for any other resolution gets rid of it all.

I know how to put game mode on, and it does disable anything else that could cause problems. The tv just has a slow scaler. In fact game mode causes video and audio to desync, according to my calibration test. I got audio lag of ZERO MS when calibrating in DJ HERO, so I think I'm qualified to judge lag. Video lag was most definitely NOT zero MS.

Lag calibration hurts guitar/dj hero enough, and frequency/amplitude are totally unfixable.

Oh and i know of no HDTV that will pillarbox 240p or 480I analog input. Many games really need that to look right.

[BuckoA51]

In that price range I'd have thought ArcadeForge's cga2vga Scaler PCB and Sync Strike combo would be the best bet. http://wp1114205.wp150.webpack.hosteuro ... hp?cPath=4