Anyone familiar with the health benefits of organic milk?

[shmuppyLove]

Huh, well I definitely havent developed manboobs, despite having consumed soy milk nearly every day for a few years now. Lucky?

[Moniker]

mickey dees tastes disgusting no matter what you eat. Hell, I have the common sense of a billy goat when it comes to food and I can taste it in their fries... a bit of a bitter/strange aftertaste. I thought it was just the local one near where I live, but it has that same flavour at other branches as well.

F***, I need to lose weight and it has to be through exercise. Two things I hate: eating healthy and exercising!

Yeah but those quarter pounders.. mmm.. It's like tiramisu made with beef and ketchup.

For losing weight, I recommend the apple diet. Substitute apples for one or two meals per diem for a week and BAM. I do it mainly out of laziness but hey, whatever. It helps if your one meal is cereal or poptarts. Anyway, I've heard it said that managing caloric intake is more important than exercise for weight loss. Vigorous exercise three times a week will knock off ~600 calories, but knocking your intake down from 2000 to 1500 per day will net you 3500 per week. And I'll stop talking now because it's all coming from my ass.

Huh, well I definitely havent developed manboobs, despite having consumed soy milk nearly every day for a few years now. Lucky?

Well, it has been demonstrated before that greg is a licensed endocrinologist. So yeah, luck.

[xbl0x180]

Manboobs are not from diet. It's called "gynecomastia" and has nothing to do with storing fat there. You won't be able to get rid of that s*** through diet or exercise, those'll have to be surgically removed


I just downed a large Round Table pizza while watching some animu

[sdk]

Huh, well I definitely havent developed manboobs, despite having consumed soy milk nearly every day for a few years now. Lucky?

Nope, just in line with what scientists have recently found:

http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015- ... 7/abstract

[jepjepjep]

Huh, well I definitely havent developed manboobs, despite having consumed soy milk nearly every day for a few years now. Lucky?

Nope, just in line with what scientists have recently found:

http://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015- ... 7/abstract

Did you notice the disclaimer at the bottom that the author "regularly consults for companies that manufacture and/or sell soyfoods and/or isoflavone supplements, and he is the executive director of the Soy Nutrition Institute, a science-based organization that is funded in part by the soy industry and the United Soybean Board"?

It doesn't seem to be unbiased science to me. Also, this is not a controlled experiment which you need to prove a cause-and-effect relationship. It is just an observational study which cannot prove causality (only correlation).

[ancestral-knowledge]

Never buy anything food related from the US. it's fucking poison. everyone knows that. There are over 9000 documentaries that all show that agricultural production methods in the US are the worst. I really mean it. They do fucked up stuff to animals and plants noone in the world would even consider. It is the main reason why american food is forbidden to get sold in Europe.

BUT REMEMBER: there is no scientific proof that organic foods are healthier/ better/ last longer /taste better /... than their conventionally produced/ genetically modified counterparts. It's your personal choice for whatever reason but don't be an idiot saying such bullshit like organic bananas taste better than the "normal" ones. You can however disapprove of the production methods of conventionally produced things like meat for example. Or you can say that YOU BELIEVE that organic food is better for you but always keep in mind that there IS NO PROOF.

(You can debate why there is no proof and why is it that many scientific institutions are sponsored by the big agricultural companies that sell poison food but thats a completely other story.)

[MJR]

I would not ask at any forum whether this or that is healthy or not. You would get as many answers as there are posters.

In fact, I would not believe any information from the fucking internet.
If I were in doubt, I would consult my physician.

[PinkSweets]

ancestral-knowledge is correct regarding what he stated about fruit, vegetables, and even soybeans being genetically modified by man and tampered with in unsanitary ways. As for organic foods, yes, they are scientifically proven to be safer and healthier. If you organically grow vegetables and fruit in a garden at home, providing rich soil, I'm pretty sure that you'll be better off. Your food will provide more nutrition and be safer, assuming you care for everything properly. That goes for hunting for wild life in the woods as well. Sure, pollution unfortunately plagues nature, but organic foods are still healthier. Now, organic foods that you purchase in a store is another story. I wouldn't trust everything that the US government deems safe. I mean, they allow things such as artificial sweeteners into foods. The FDA is pretty untrustworthy, so I have nothing to say about store-bought organic foods.

Supplementation is absolutely necessary in today's day and age in order to obtain all of the essential vitamins and minerals required by the human body. You even have to be cautious when you purchase supplements, whether they're vitamins or herbs. A lot of vitamins are basically man-made as well. Those too are almost virtually useless and sometimes harmful. They're usually loaded with B-vitamins that pretty much pass right through your system, and in turn, providing little to no benefit whatsoever. Some chemicals in these multi-vitamins may cause you to become even more deficient! I know for a fact that it's extremely difficult to efficiently absorb everything in a low quality supplement. Raw food derived nutrients accompanied by enzymes are far more beneficial.

And MJR, it's good that you don't trust everything that you read on the internet - it shows that you're far more intelligent than most typical individuals. In fact, doubt everything that I say and research these things for yourself.

As for consulting your physician, don't trust absolutely everything they say either. It's better to research and inquire before making an appointment. Some doctors are more corrupt than anyone else. Just look at all the pill-pushers that think every human ailment can be solved with a "magic pill". Fucking idiots. They rarely get a background of your life before making decisions. It's absolutely vital to treat a patient as a whole instead of in parts. Hence why man-made "magic pills" are dangerous and complete poison. Scientists create chemicals that suppress symptoms, but fail to truly cure an individual. Modern western medicine is quite sad. Ancient eastern medicine is far more logical and beneficial.

I've heard of doctors who have nearly killed their patients because they thought they were right and fail to admit their ignorance. Not saying all physicians are like this either. For example, a man new better to tell his doctor that he was an over-absorber of potassium. The doctor said, no, no, it's OK and proceeded to pump more potassium into his IV and drove him into cardiac arrest.

This may be hard to believe, but mental disorders such as ADHD, bipolar disorder, among others, can sometimes be corrected through natural supplementation. My own physician is more of a naturalist and had a patient who was suffering from delusions and was borderline bipolar. He did not give her a prescription drug, but simply put her on a high quality B-Vitamin complex with intrinsic factor. Within days her condition improved. As long as her B-Vitamin levels are stable, she can lead a normal life.

Here is an interesting read on the subject everyone is discussing: http://www.amazon.com/Never-Be-Sick-Aga ... 539&sr=8-1

[brentsg]

it's good that you don't trust everything that you read on the internet - it shows that you're far more intelligent than most typical individuals. In fact, doubt everything that I say and research these things for yourself.

But how can we do this? You said we should not trust the internet, the government, doctors, or scientists.

Should we consult a shaman?

[PinkSweets]

But how can we do this? You said we should not trust the internet, the government, doctors, or scientists.

Should we consult a shaman?

Do I really need to answer this question? Use your own common sense. Don't put words in my mouth either. You're blowing what I said out of proportion.

Simply don't rely on one single source. When you first read or hear something for the first time, be open to it, but if you are skeptical in any way, do further research. You can eventually discover truths if you really care enough. Science does not believe in things, hence the reason why science clashes with religion. Science is fact.

If you trust ALL doctors, governments, and mediocre internet sources, you'll run into more problems than necessary. I'm not saying everything in the world is corrupt, wrong, or evil, all I said was be somewhat skeptical of what you hear and read, use your own intelligence and intuition, and come to an ultimate conclusion. Sometimes it takes quite a bit of time and effort, but in the end, it's worth it.

I'm not trying to come off like an all-knowing, arrogant asshole either. Hell, I'm pretty fucked up in many ways myself, but I can see through a lot of the bullshit that goes on. I sometimes go astray and run into issues like anyone else.

I'll give you a test: I'm telling you right now that every time a male ejaculates, he loses a significant amount of zinc as well as other essential fluids, not to mention a tremendous amount of energy, all taking a good deal of time to replenish. Zinc is an extremely important mineral to the human body and is becoming a common deficiency in the average person. Over time, you can become severely deficient in vital nutrients and feel fatigued, remaining unaware that it's because of excessive ejaculation.

Sounds quite bizarre, right? Contrary to what some may say is healthy as an everyday activity. That said, let me know if the information I provided is a scientific fact. You may be somewhat surprised.

[Casper<3]

Pink Sweets, have you heard anything about One A Day Men's Pro Edge multivitamin?

I take one of those daily, in addition to 3000mg fish oil (in 3 doses)

[xbl0x180]

Never buy anything food related from the US. it's fucking poison. everyone knows that. There are over 9000 documentaries that all show that agricultural production methods in the US are the worst. I really mean it. They do fucked up stuff to animals and plants noone in the world would even consider. It is the main reason why american food is forbidden to get sold in Europe.

BUT REMEMBER: there is no scientific proof that organic foods are healthier/ better/ last longer /taste better /... than their conventionally produced/ genetically modified counterparts. It's your personal choice for whatever reason but don't be an idiot saying such bullshit like organic bananas taste better than the "normal" ones. You can however disapprove of the production methods of conventionally produced things like meat for example. Or you can say that YOU BELIEVE that organic food is better for you but always keep in mind that there IS NO PROOF.

(You can debate why there is no proof and why is it that many scientific institutions are sponsored by the big agricultural companies that sell poison food but thats a completely other story.)

Dude, Europe is just as lethal and toxic with their foot-and-mouth diseased animals, gnarly E. coli outbreaks that have killed way more people in recent history, scrapie/mad cow diseased cattle, and, in the 80s, toxic rain clouds from the Chernobyl meltdown. It isn't just Europe, though, but everywhere else - we don't accept a lot of imported stuff from China, Japan, and Latin America ranging from toxic pet food to lead candy from Mexico and other toxic candies from Australia, Vietnam, and Russia. All this in addition to famine and drought from Africa and (surprisingly) Australia

Code: Select all

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/Pages/FDB%20Lead%20In%20Candy%20Program.aspx

Code: Select all

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/HealthInfo/Pages/fdbFr.aspx

Code: Select all

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/02/world/la-fg-germany-disease-20110602

Code: Select all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_spongiform_encephalopathy

Code: Select all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_East_Africa_drought

Code: Select all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drought_in_Australia

Enjoy your domestic foods

It's like a third world country in the rest of the world. For the US, it's not so much the food, but the lifestyle choices people make that make them sick with the chronic illnesses we are renown for (i.e., heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and even accidental deaths). Otherwise, if there was a better way to convince people to change their lifestyle/behaviour, then the junk food isn't as critical as people make them out to be. Isn't it obvious that anything in excess is bad for you? Hell, even water is bad for you if you drink it in excess. This goes way back to the times of Paracelsus.

One thing I do agree with European and Australian govts. is that advertising junk food and video games to children should be made illegal.

[PinkSweets]

Pink Sweets, have you heard anything about One A Day Men's Pro Edge multivitamin?

I take one of those daily, in addition to 3000mg fish oil (in 3 doses)

To be honest, I don't have any experience with that particular multivitamin and I'm not familiar with the ingredients. I'm assuming your fish oil is of good quality and OK, though. Just make sure that you're not consuming a lot more Omega-6 fatty acids than Omega-3. If the ratio is dangerously unbalanced, it could encourage disease.

If you ask me, I'd recommend Vitamin Code Men from Garden of Life. It's a little expensive, but you're getting high quality vitamins and minerals as well as probiotics and enzymes. The capsules contain raw, plant-derived nutrients accompanied by trace minerals and antioxidants. They don't use synthetic nutrients or chemical isolates either. I personally trust this supplement.

[MR_Soren]

I used to be horribly lactose intolerant. I became lactose intolerant when the FDA okayed Monsanto to inject cows with antibiotics. You see, you need probiotics to build up your immune system. So much of your immune system is in your intestines, and when the antibiotics kill all the beneficial bacteria in your guts, you get sick a lot and you can't properly digest lactose. Unfortunately, the Clinton administration helped set Monsanto up as like an untouchable deity in our government, and everyone's health is paying the price for pandering to special interests. Yeah, every president does that, and it's sickening and evil. For Clinton, Monsanto was one of them. I'm not saying this to be political at all, just pointing something out. It will take everyone of all political persuasions who are fed up with being sick to put an end to this.

Nowadays, it's popular for companies to deal a blow against Monsanto by advertising their milk as "no RBST" or "no hormones," but they still have the antibiotics. Organic means no hormones and no antibiotics. It also means that the cows are being fed grass, which they are meant to eat. If not, they're being fed corn, which is not good for the cows and is not nutritious for them. Moreover, you can bet that the corn is Monsanto's genetically modified corn, too.

I don't know how else to say this, but that should definitely be on youtube.

Good post.

[mrsmiley381]

This thread has convinced me to stop eating Boo Berry, to never go near milk again, and to seriously question eating anything at all. Are the eggs I eat every morning safe? Because clearly the cheese I put on them is not. Are vegetables safe? Or am I boned regardless? I buy food from Wegman's rather than Wal-Mart, so I like to think I'm better off in that respect. Wal-Mart probably has all sorts of shady shit going on with the food.

Here I was hoping this thread would just be "organic milk is BS." Now I'm afraid the white pizza my girlfriend wants us to order will destroy my intestines due to a chemical smörgåsbord and improper dietary balancing.

[xbl0x180]

This thread has convinced me to stop eating Boo Berry, to never go near milk again, and to seriously question eating anything at all. Are the eggs I eat every morning safe? Because clearly the cheese I put on them is not. Are vegetables safe? Or am I boned regardless? I buy food from Wegman's rather than Wal-Mart, so I like to think I'm better off in that respect. Wal-Mart probably has all sorts of shady shit going on with the food.

Here I was hoping this thread would just be "organic milk is BS." Now I'm afraid the white pizza my girlfriend wants us to order will destroy my intestines due to a chemical smörgåsbord and improper dietary balancing.

Well, there have been studies done with regards to how inefficient organic farming is and how full of bacteria the produce is in comparison to other methods of farming. If you're drinking raw milk, unpasteurised, then you take your chances. As far as genetically modifying foods, man has been doing it since the inception of agriculture and cross-breeding plants. It's not as if they're feeding you chimeras or some kind of doomsday carnivorous plant.

Pizzas that girlfriends order are the best

[brentsg]

But how can we do this? You said we should not trust the internet, the government, doctors, or scientists.

Should we consult a shaman?

Do I really need to answer this question? Use your own common sense. Don't put words in my mouth either. You're blowing what I said out of proportion.

I'm not trying to come off like an all-knowing, arrogant asshole either. Hell, I'm pretty fucked up in many ways myself, but I can see through a lot of the bullshit that goes on. I sometimes go astray and run into issues like anyone else.

I just re-read it and I didn't come away with anything different than I did the first time. I agree that a healthy amount of skepticism is always a good thing, but that's not what I got out of your post.

And regarding the second, the only thing that I really care to call out as ridiculous is the piece about bipolar disorder. I don't care what you believe based upon your single anecdotal experience. Bipolar disorder is serious, and anyone that suffers from it should be spending lots of time with qualified professionals to determine the best course of treatment. A close member of my family is bipolar, and while their hormone levels, vitamin levels, etc are closely monitored.. the issue is much more complicated than that. What you posted is certainly not typical or common. I understand you said "sometimes", but what you are posting is a very much on the fringe. It's also something that any good psychiatrist will be taking a look at before they start handing out pills.

[Friendly]

that should definitely be on youtube.

Thanks for making me LOL

[MR_Soren]

As far as genetically modifying foods, man has been doing it since the inception of agriculture and cross-breeding plants.

The stuff Monsanto is doing to the GMO food is far more bizarre than cross-breeding. They're splicing in DNA from completely unrelated species, creating true frankenfoods, plants that don't produce seeds, plants that aren't killed by various chemicals, and then selling the chemicals to spray all over them.

Everybody has to decide what they do and don't want to eat, but people have to know what they are eating before they can even do that.


Anyway, regarding girlfriend pizza... can't be a total food snob. Eat it and enjoy it. I eat what others offer me, and I eat out often. However, when I do prepare food, I use the ingredients I believe in.

[xbl0x180]

As far as genetically modifying foods, man has been doing it since the inception of agriculture and cross-breeding plants.

The stuff Monsanto is doing to the GMO food is far more bizarre than cross-breeding. They're splicing in DNA from completely unrelated species, creating true frankenfoods, plants that don't produce seeds, plants that aren't killed by various chemicals, and then selling the chemicals to spray all over them.

Everybody has to decide what they do and don't want to eat, but people have to know what they are eating before they can even do that.


Anyway, regarding girlfriend pizza... can't be a total food snob. Eat it and enjoy it. I eat what others offer me, and I eat out often. However, when I do prepare food, I use the ingredients I believe in.

I'm curious, what are the potential side-effects of eating genetically-modified foods? After all, we're already eating candle wax in the form of trans fats and that has been proven to f*** s*** up in our circulatory system. Any articles from medical or science journals that anyone here could refer would be appreciated

This isn't to say I'd give Monsanto a by since I know they're the ones responsible for dumping chemical waste in Southern California and f****** us over that way.

[PinkSweets]

But how can we do this? You said we should not trust the internet, the government, doctors, or scientists.

Should we consult a shaman?

Do I really need to answer this question? Use your own common sense. Don't put words in my mouth either. You're blowing what I said out of proportion.

I'm not trying to come off like an all-knowing, arrogant asshole either. Hell, I'm pretty fucked up in many ways myself, but I can see through a lot of the bullshit that goes on. I sometimes go astray and run into issues like anyone else.

I just re-read it and I didn't come away with anything different than I did the first time. I agree that a healthy amount of skepticism is always a good thing, but that's not what I got out of your post.

And regarding the second, the only thing that I really care to call out as ridiculous is the piece about bipolar disorder. I don't care what you believe based upon your single anecdotal experience. Bipolar disorder is serious, and anyone that suffers from it should be spending lots of time with qualified professionals to determine the best course of treatment. A close member of my family is bipolar, and while their hormone levels, vitamin levels, etc are closely monitored.. the issue is much more complicated than that. What you posted is certainly not typical or common. I understand you said "sometimes", but what you are posting is a very much on the fringe. It's also something that any good psychiatrist will be taking a look at before they start handing out pills.

Yes, people suffering from mental disorders can benefit and see positive improvement from supplementation. I never said that supplements "cure" an individual. Perhaps I used the wrong term when I said "corrected", that was my mistake. They can, however, treat symptoms which can prove to greatly benefit sufferers. I understand it's more complex than that. Severely ill patients need more intensive therapy as well as medications at times. The individual was " diagnosed borderline bi-polar". I never said she had an intense mental disorder. That was just an example. And again, she was diagnosed by a different doctor who was probably quite careless. I was personally put on ritalin at a younger age because my so-called qualified professional "thought" I suffered from ADHD. It was a load of shit and not only proved to be harmful, but a wrong diagnosis.

So, you're absolutely correct when you say mental disorders are a little more serious and are deeper than what I discussed. This is the internet and on my part, there was a tremendous lack of communication. It's difficult to discuss these matters on forums.

For example, why do you think zinc deficiency would result in organ malfunction, impairment of human senses, cognitive impairment, among other things? This is not classified as any form of psychosis, but goes to show that vitamin and mineral deficiency profoundly destroys human life. What happens when a mother births a child who did not receive proper nourishment in the womb or who was exposed to extremely toxic chemicals? It's possible that the child will suffer brain, heart, or other defects. It's possible that cell malfunction from deficiency's and chemical overload originally spawned mental illness in human beings.

Edit: Maybe this will interest you: http://www.doctoryourself.com/review_hoffer_B3.html

Here is some solid documentation. There is plenty more where that came from. Here, we are talking about Niacin (Vitamin B3), Vitamin C and Schizophrenia. There have been plenty of patients with a diagnosed incurable mental disorder who appeared to have regained stability and acted quite normal following vitamin and mineral treatments.

[TransatlanticFoe]

As for organic foods, yes, they are scientifically proven to be safer and healthier.

No they're not. The only advantage organic food has is that it's more ethically sound. Any scientific study is dubious until you've had the opportunity to read through the actual published article (and checking references - people love to self-reference or get their mates in on it to make their work seem more credible), but anyway there is no evidence to suggest that organic food is better for you in any way. And no, science is not fact. Science is the belief of fact based on the available evidence - making any outcome technically a theory. More evidence can support a theory, strengthening the belief in the "fact" and contrary evidence weakens it, leading to alternate theories. Science is most certainly not as black and white as people believe. Scientists themselves would do well to remember this and not shit themselves when someone finds that the speed of light can be broken - as it was only mathematics and not practical evidence which established that belief!

People run scared at the mention of "chemicals" without realising that chemicals make up everything. Just because something isn't produced naturally doesn't make it bad. Nature makes some pretty horrific toxins for starters! "Chemicals" used in pesticides are given rigourous scrutiny by very intelligent scientists - especially after the likes of DDT, great care is taken before something goes into production. Environmental impact only occurs with misuse... but then, the same happens with the natural - if you introduce a certain plant or animal species into a given area it can disrupt the entire ecosystem (thanks for your squirrels, America!).

You can't say that because a cow has been pumped full of antibiotics that this somehow transfers into health risks for the person drinking the milk. I agree that feeding the wrong food is a bad idea (such practice led to the BSE scares of the 90s - you don't feed dead sheep to cows!) but provided it's not something as retarded as feeding diseased animals, the end product is just going to be less rich in certain components - more of them doesn't automatically mean there will be health benefits. Thus the importance of a balanced diet.

End of the day, you might be hit by a bus tomorrow so you decide if you want to worry about the exact levels of this that and the other which various scientific studies say you should have. If find it particularly entertaining that people bang on about this sort of thing, then smoke and drink and take other narcotics. Some things which reduce the risk of something, increase the risk of something else - when you look at it in its entireity, it's all very wooly. But please, do not spread the belief that because something is not naturally produced that it is automatically bad - and vice versa!

[PinkSweets]

As for organic foods, yes, they are scientifically proven to be safer and healthier.

No they're not. The only advantage organic food has is that it's more ethically sound. Any scientific study is dubious until you've had the opportunity to read through the actual published article (and checking references - people love to self-reference or get their mates in on it to make their work seem more credible), but anyway there is no evidence to suggest that organic food is better for you in any way. And no, science is not fact. Science is the belief of fact based on the available evidence - making any outcome technically a theory. More evidence can support a theory, strengthening the belief in the "fact" and contrary evidence weakens it, leading to alternate theories. Science is most certainly not as black and white as people believe. Scientists themselves would do well to remember this and not shit themselves when someone finds that the speed of light can be broken - as it was only mathematics and not practical evidence which established that belief!

People run scared at the mention of "chemicals" without realising that chemicals make up everything. Just because something isn't produced naturally doesn't make it bad. Nature makes some pretty horrific toxins for starters! "Chemicals" used in pesticides are given rigourous scrutiny by very intelligent scientists - especially after the likes of DDT, great care is taken before something goes into production. Environmental impact only occurs with misuse... but then, the same happens with the natural - if you introduce a certain plant or animal species into a given area it can disrupt the entire ecosystem (thanks for your squirrels, America!).

You can't say that because a cow has been pumped full of antibiotics that this somehow transfers into health risks for the person drinking the milk. I agree that feeding the wrong food is a bad idea (such practice led to the BSE scares of the 90s - you don't feed dead sheep to cows!) but provided it's not something as retarded as feeding diseased animals, the end product is just going to be less rich in certain components - more of them doesn't automatically mean there will be health benefits. Thus the importance of a balanced diet.

End of the day, you might be hit by a bus tomorrow so you decide if you want to worry about the exact levels of this that and the other which various scientific studies say you should have. If find it particularly entertaining that people bang on about this sort of thing, then smoke and drink and take other narcotics. Some things which reduce the risk of something, increase the risk of something else - when you look at it in its entireity, it's all very wooly. But please, do not spread the belief that because something is not naturally produced that it is automatically bad - and vice versa!

Thank you for the post! You really have many excellent points. I am not doubting anything you say and it's awesome to hear another side of things.

Perhaps my comment was quite one-sided and almost sounded ignorant to some degree. Science cannot explain away everything. That's precisely why scientists find it hard to explain why the first particle popped into existence. Where did it come from? Science cannot explain what the Chinese and Japanese refer to as "Chi" or "Ki". Astral projection is another phenomenon that is difficult to deal with. I can list hundreds of strange occurrences that are realities for certain groups of people or may be for just one individual. ESP and the belief of reincarnation are other examples. All very real for some and remain unexplained by science.

The fact of the matter is, disease is more prevalent in modern society due to man-made things and food that has been tampered with. And yes, not ALL man-made things are bad. I can care less if science can prove if this is fact or not. It's not natural, plain and simple. Cell malfunction is not normal. Surely, eating a healthy diet and abstaining from man-made chemicals is not enough. Life is so complex that I cannot begin to list all of the mysterious energy forces that play a part. I may be at a dead end here. It would be beautiful to explain everything, but I may be just as dumbfounded as anyone else. I'll admit, perhaps much of my knowledge is wrong or even useless.

Of course, not everything science is involved in is solid fact. I'm aware of dozens of theories, beliefs, as well as many other studies, but when it comes to most solid matter, such as the contents of the computer you're using now, or the antibiotics you take while you're sick, it's usually supported - or at least appears to be! This is what many rely on.

I'm not saying what I am about to state is fact, but this is what SOME peoples believe. In no way am I promoting vegetarianism either. I am not saying I believe it or disbelieve it for that matter. What is said below is not my personal view on things, but is still very interesting to consider.

-When you murder an animal, in a torturous way, fear is clearly present. In turn, the animal releases a tremendous amount of toxic chemicals throughout its body. These are, of course, stress hormones as well as polluted, negative energies. The animal knows its about to be killed and is in absolute misery. This violent energy passed from the killer to the animal carries over to its consumer. The meat consumed is now polluted.
On the other hand, when you make a clean kill, say in the woods with a rifle, you generally shoot to kill and the animal is killed instantly, generally unknowing that its life is about to be ended. No stress hormones or fear polluted the animals life energy. Animals in nature appear to be quite content and do now know misery unless they are interfered with by humans in a negative way. In other words, nature peacefully flows onward. The meat is now cleaner to consume and doesn't carry "invisible" negative energies over to its eater.

This is something that has not been proven and may never be! On the other hand, I cannot dismiss something like this because it is very fascinating.

So, to sum things up, it really depends what someones opinion of "bad" is. One can say that anything harmful or lethal to humans is bad. This is the survival instinct which is natural. Existentially, these things are not. They are labeled as bad by humans.

Think about the nature of the universe. One can say that the sun is bad because it caused them to develop skin cancer; not taking into consideration that their life would be impossible without the sun. Essentially, the sun has absolutely NO responsibility for human life since life is a product of its existence. You can call life a privilege.

[xbl0x180]

What kind of "disease" is more prevalent? It's a fact life-expectancy is longer now than it ever was. Care to wonder why? Chemicals. Public health programs were set up to counter prevalent diseases of the day through educational programs, legislation, and, more or less, field experiments. 100, 150, 200 years ago infectious diseases were more prevalent; lots of those were water-bourne diseases or diseases pertaining to hygiene. For example, through experiments, it was discovered that chlorine acted as a disininfectant for water. So chlorine was added to the public's drinking water. Nowadays, it's rare for a metropolitan area to have a "boil water" order from their regional district water provider. Actually, you're more liable to acquire a disease and cause more of a negative environmental impact from consuming bottled water than you would from tap water. Much like the benefits of chlorination, it's also been proven that the fluoridation of water helps prevent dental caries.

If you are referring to chronic diseases being more prevalent now than before, then you'll find libraries full of surveys and studies trying to pin-point the root cause of these. For some, it's pretty obvious: if you're stupid enough to breathe in fire for years, you'll get lung cancer; if you constantly shovel food into your trough, you'll become a lardarse, etc. For others, it's more difficult to ascertain. The results and discussions don't speak of direct correlations, but of proving hypothetical associations that possibly work in combination with other environmental (or confounding) factors.

I agree people have to be circumspect of new technologies and sources of food and water, but when there are studies done time and time again proving or disproving something, it doesn't make sense to tout the alleged benefits or the alleged negative effects of things that lack the backing from the scientific community in general. This is how that quack misinformation about early childhood vaccinations spread, so it can be downright dangerous in some instances.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Firstly, it's good that there can be discussion on the internet rather than flaming interspersed with shouts of conspiracy.

I will agree that science cannot prove everything - such is the nature of scientific advancement and the very reason things are theory until there is sufficient evidence to reclassify it as fact. There is much about the brain and consciousness which, at our present level of understanding, cannot be explained.

Disease is not more prevalent in modern society - as stated previously by xbl0x180, medical advancements, understanding and synthetically produced drugs have improved life expectancy drastically. Before this, disease was rampant - we had no understanding of it and had no way to fight it, except for our immune systems... which were often weakened by malnutrition (in poverty and decadance). Our problem is that medical understanding has come so far that many ills can now be classified, giving the impression of more "disease". Cancer in particular - we know so much about it but still its emergence cannot be fully explained. Perhaps there is something common which massively increases its risk - but cancer has always been around, although we wouldn't have known what it was in the past and many wouldn't have lived long enough to fall victim to it.

On the method of animal death - yes, it has been seen that the quality of meat can be reduced by a strenous life and death. However, toxins is overstating it. I'll accept this may be a misuse of the term "toxic", because as a chemist myself it has a very defined meaning - few animals make their bodies toxic when they die. What you describe sounds more in line with the concept of "Chi" and energy flow. Whilst I will not dismiss spirituality entirely, evidence supporting it is anecdotal - yes, the human psyche is complex but I think that in itself gives rise to beliefs in reincarnation and energy flow. However on the contrary there is also the placebo effect, which shows evidence for the complexity of consciousness. There is much we don't know - however, the need to be open and supportive of science rather than putting it down and living in fear of frankenstein foods etc.. Science may not be able to explain everything at present, however reason is needed in its absence and where solid evidence is lacking or just not prominently presented enough, hysteria is a stronger voice and picks up momentum quicker. As xbl0x180 mentioned, the bullshit fears over immunisation which had no grounding in scientific evidence - but hysterical groups shouted louder and the media does love sensationalism... but then we start going into the evils of the media which is enough of a topic in itself.

[PinkSweets]

I agree that it's wonderful to have a decent discussion without the flaming. I'm open to being proved wrong since I will have the opportunity to learn something new.

When I mentioned disease, I was not referring to pathogen related illness. Cell malfunction is the best way I can put it. It's 100% true that science has come a long way and understands what was unknown hundreds of years ago. And to make things clear, I did not want to sound like I was disrespecting science in any way, I'm extremely interested in science: Astronomy, Neuroscience, Biochemistry, etc. Nothing is perfect and there are definite drawbacks to almost everything. Take vaccinations for example - in some cases, they are absolutely necessary and the adverse effects are sometimes worth the risk. In that respect, although there are clear health risks, science prevails. Rabies is some serious shit.

Being an extremely analytical person, even I don't think people should drive themselves crazy with every little worry about whats in this or that if they can help it. Staying informed about the ingredients in your food and supplements as well as being intelligent enough to realize burgers and fries are not the best choice in diet, is absolutely vital. I hate to see people eating pizza for dinner several times per week. That goes for microwavable dinners, too. That's an extreme choice in diet that makes itself crystal clear to stay away from it. That's the type of stuff that's frustrating to me.

[xbl0x180]

When I mentioned disease, I was not referring to pathogen related illness. Cell malfunction is the best way I can put it. It's 100% true that science has come a long way and understands what was unknown hundreds of years ago. And to make things clear, I did not want to sound like I was disrespecting science in any way, I'm extremely interested in science: Astronomy, Neuroscience, Biochemistry, etc. Nothing is perfect and there are definite drawbacks to almost everything. Take vaccinations for example - in some cases, they are absolutely necessary and the adverse effects are sometimes worth the risk. In that respect, although there are clear health risks, science prevails. Rabies is some serious shit.

Being an extremely analytical person, even I don't think people should drive themselves crazy with every little worry about whats in this or that if they can help it. Staying informed about the ingredients in your food and supplements as well as being intelligent enough to realize burgers and fries are not the best choice in diet, is absolutely vital. I hate to see people eating pizza for dinner several times per week. That goes for microwavable dinners, too. That's an extreme choice in diet that makes itself crystal clear to stay away from it. That's the type of stuff that's frustrating to me.

Do you mean chronic illnesses? Because those have been the leading causes of death in the United States for decades once infectious diseases were wiped out of the population.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

Organic foods and vitamin supplements have not been proven to aid in improving people's health when it comes to these diseases. They're just another niche market where the bottom line is the almighty dollar and not improving people's health/lifestyle choices. Under normal circumstances, people should be getting nutrients, vitamins, minerals from their food and drinks. If they choose to eat garbage and lead a sedentary lifestyle, all the "organic" food and vitamin supplements in the world ain't gonna make much difference when it comes to chronic diseases - they'll end up whizzing it all out the same way they pissed away the money to buy this stuff. People might be better off putting away the money spent on "organic" foods and vitamins, and placing it in a retirement account since they'll need it for medical care in their old age

[PinkSweets]

Do you mean chronic illnesses? Because those have been the leading causes of death in the United States for decades once infectious diseases were wiped out of the population.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

Organic foods and vitamin supplements have not been proven to aid in improving people's health when it comes to these diseases. They're just another niche market where the bottom line is the almighty dollar and not improving people's health/lifestyle choices. Under normal circumstances, people should be getting nutrients, vitamins, minerals from their food and drinks. If they choose to eat garbage and lead a sedentary lifestyle, all the "organic" food and vitamin supplements in the world ain't gonna make much difference when it comes to chronic diseases - they'll end up whizzing it all out the same way they pissed away the money to buy this stuff. People might be better off putting away the money spent on "organic" foods and vitamins, and placing it in a retirement account since they'll need it for medical care in their old age

Oh, I agree 100%. I don't want to sound like the type to state that organic food and supplements alone will keep you around to an ripe old age. Sleep is far more important. Without it, you can eat the most nutrient rich foods in the world and still not be able to metabolize everything efficiently or benefit from what all the food has to offer. Breathing is another process people overlook, not taking into consideration that its important to inhale through the nose instead of the mouth. Many bodily toxins are thrown out through deep exhalation as well.

So I hope nobody mistakes my intentions. Of course, food and supplements alone will do you very little good. Optimal health requires far more.

And yes, I was referring to chronic disease.

[greg]

I just downed a large Round Table pizza while watching some animu

You're only making yourself look like a dork when you keep using that word. Enjoy your 4chan.

What I said.

I don't know how else to say this, but that should definitely be on youtube.

Good post.

Thanks, but I'm sure it basically already is. There's a great channel called psychetruth. I recently unsubscribed because they started going down the political path, but they have quite a lot of educational videos on natural foods, nutrition, and such.

EDIT (didn't catch this at first):

As far as genetically modifying foods, man has been doing it since the inception of agriculture and cross-breeding plants. It's not as if they're feeding you chimeras or some kind of doomsday carnivorous plant.

Now you are really talking about stuff you obviously haven't studied much on. It's not like spraying pesticide on a piece of corn. What they're doing with GMO corn and such is that they're making the pesticide an actual part of the plant's DNA. This has nothing to do with cross pollinating certain citrus trees to make new fruit. So let's say that you want to keep bugs from eating your tomatoes. What they may do is splice the genes of the tomato with something like, for example, scorpion venom, so that the anti-insect properties permeate the plant. DNA is still an unknown frontier, and to haphazardly chop it up, you are making a Frankenstein monster as somebody else put it. Stuff like the Starlink Corn scandal happens and people end up sick. They say GMO is "safe," but we have no idea what the long-term side effects are, and since the side effects can be so extremely elusive and manifesting in so many aspects of our lives, there is no real way to have a control group. However, it's not a stretch to say that people have noticed an improvement of health and lifestyle when switching to organic foods.

Have you ever bothered to go check out a local famers' market? Buy a tomato. You'll realize that the tomatoes you've been eating are only an impression of what a tomato looks like. You'll realize that it's been so long since you've had a real tomato (or since you're an annoying kid reading 4chan and using dumb, outdated phrases like "animu," you may not be old enough to have ever eaten one).

[xbl0x180]

I just downed a large Round Table pizza while watching some animu

You're only making yourself look like a dork when you keep using that word. Enjoy your 4chan.

What I said.

I don't know how else to say this, but that should definitely be on youtube.

Good post.

Thanks, but I'm sure it basically already is. There's a great channel called psychetruth. I recently unsubscribed because they started going down the political path, but they have quite a lot of educational videos on natural foods, nutrition, and such.

EDIT (didn't catch this at first):

As far as genetically modifying foods, man has been doing it since the inception of agriculture and cross-breeding plants. It's not as if they're feeding you chimeras or some kind of doomsday carnivorous plant.

Now you are really talking about stuff you obviously haven't studied much on. It's not like spraying pesticide on a piece of corn. What they're doing with GMO corn and such is that they're making the pesticide an actual part of the plant's DNA. This has nothing to do with cross pollinating certain citrus trees to make new fruit. So let's say that you want to keep bugs from eating your tomatoes. What they may do is splice the genes of the tomato with something like, for example, scorpion venom, so that the anti-insect properties permeate the plant. DNA is still an unknown frontier, and to haphazardly chop it up, you are making a Frankenstein monster as somebody else put it. Stuff like the Starlink Corn scandal happens and people end up sick. They say GMO is "safe," but we have no idea what the long-term side effects are, and since the side effects can be so extremely elusive and manifesting in so many aspects of our lives, there is no real way to have a control group. However, it's not a stretch to say that people have noticed an improvement of health and lifestyle when switching to organic foods.

Have you ever bothered to go check out a local famers' market? Buy a tomato. You'll realize that the tomatoes you've been eating are only an impression of what a tomato looks like. You'll realize that it's been so long since you've had a real tomato (or since you're an annoying kid reading 4chan and using dumb, outdated phrases like "animu," you may not be old enough to have ever eaten one).

Whatever point you were trying to make falls flat in light of the fact you resorted to the childish ad hominem crap. You have no idea what I've read and studied on the matter, yet you erroneously presume stuff because I use the word "animu" in gest?! That is completely irrelevant to discussing the subject. Anyway, I recall you were the one comparing North American society to what you see on COPS. Hahaha. Mebbe you should lay off the "organic" foods or else you'll be making comparisons of today's society with Jerry Springer.

lol @ you. You think you know stuff; you don't know stuff