Japan is really going overboard with this moe thing

[RNGmaster]

I think you guys would be surprised at half of the titles I have in my manga collection.

Please give us a rundown. I know you're dying to start a "Cuilan is a sick fuck Mark 2" thread, so just go ahead.

I'm imagining futanari, most of Boku no Pico, and maybe some Waita Uziga for good measure.

Edit: You already posted some, but I mean the othwer stuff.

[Skykid]

We need to stop and realize that while both of these issues are bad, American society as a whole is sexualizing our daughters. And not only that, but our society and media are encouraging these girls to sexualize themselves. This is sick and wrong, and it's only getting worse. They have stuff like high heels for babies, stores sell G-strings in little girl sizes, dolls and toys that indoctrinate tiny girls into wanting to wear makeup, and you can find T-shirts for girls that say "spoiled rotten," "little princess," or "I may be little but I am not easy." Or those pants that say "JUICY" written across the ass. But as bad as it is for Japan to depict little girls as sexual objects, American society is guilty of encouraging girls to sexualize themselves. Which is worse, forcing sexualization onto girls, or brainwashing them through the media to embrace it of their own free will?

This is some true shit right here. Mild commercial pedofilia right under your noses and nobody noticed. The media be powerful indeed.

[greg]

This is some true shit right here. Mild commercial pedofilia right under your noses and nobody noticed. The media be powerful indeed.

Exactly. Manga may show young girls as little sluts, but you go around anywhere in Japan and you'd be hard pressed to find any real life examples of this. Meanwhile where I live, I see young girls wearing provocative clothing and their moms are right next to them, buying that crap for them. It's like their moms support it, thinking that this is what builds a girl's self-esteem. The result is having girls believing the lie that they must find self-worth by sexualizing themselves to become objects of men's selfish desires. Last year I read a book called The Lolita Effect that was full of some rather eye-opening, terrible stuff. From anywhere from those horrid child beauty contests to so-called teen role models to everyday fashion, everywhere you look the image of a young girl is nothing but a sick, pedophilic image that girls are being suckered into admiring. If I move to Japan next year, I hope to spare my daughter from a lot of this stuff. A true lolita complex from an exterior force is something to deal with, but having it come from within a girl, controlling her motivations and attitudes... that's rather frightening.

[Skykid]

^

You're definitely on the money, but a lot of what you just described is totally prevalent in Japan too.

Manga may show young girls as little sluts, but you go around anywhere in Japan and you'd be hard pressed to find any real life examples of this.

Not true. The effects of Japan's historical sexism runs deep. Women play up to the notion of being viewed as objects. They might not strut around baring flesh, but they definitely put in overtime to titillate everyone and everything. Schoolgirls roll up the hems of their skirts to attract attention, well aware of the fetishism that accompanies the uniform, and in central Tokyo there's a goddamn maid on every street corner, skirts as short as belts crossing roads, fuck me boots up to the thigh and socks, socks, socks.

It's great.

The result is having girls believing the lie that they must find self-worth by sexualizing themselves to become objects of men's selfish desires.

You just described Japan dude.

Also: I just 1CC'd DOJ BL. Don't mind me, I'm telling everyone.

[greg]

Not true. The effects of Japan's historical sexism runs deep. Women play up to the notion of being viewed as objects. They might not strut around baring flesh, but they definitely put in overtime to titillate everyone and everything.

Yeah, you're right about that. It's different though, at least in an exterior way.

Schoolgirls roll up the hems of their skirts to attract attention, well aware of the fetishism that accompanies the uniform,

There is that, for sure. To me, though, it reminds me of what passed as being racy back in the '50s.

in central Tokyo there's a goddamn maid on every street corner, skirts as short as belts crossing roads, fuck me boots up to the thigh and socks, socks, socks.

True on both accounts, but these are adults. Maybe Japan has changed in the past 10 years, but I would see my students out of uniform in the downtown area in the city I lived and they did't dress jailbait style like I see here. I'm not into the whole maid thing at all, and it certainly feeds that "women must be subservient" fetish, but at least it's somewhat modest. The goth-loli look was just starting towards the end of my life there, and I certainly welcomed it since it was the replacement of the horrid ganguro look. For the miniskirts and stiletto boots, I've always thought they looked like hookers. So yeah, the sexualized adult stereotypes are there, but the schoolgirls, for the most part, are better off than the sleazy American girls who desire a tramp stamp tattoo and fnasty body piercings.

[Skykid]

So yeah, the sexualized adult stereotypes are there, but the schoolgirls, for the most part, are better off than the sleazy American girls who desire a tramp stamp tattoo and fnasty body piercings.

That could be because Japanese schoolgirl fetishism is so beyond rampant it's become commonplace and acceptable. But look at it objectively and you're back on the pedo road again. :Old man wants to whack off while sniffing 15 yr old girl's used panties:

On other things:

Ganguro was horrific (for ugly girls to mask their ugliness with ugliness) but I don't think Goth-Loli replaced it as a fashion trend (Lolita is it's own branch derived from Vivienne Westwood and Rococo fashions). I think Ganguro's direct successor is Gyaru, which, if I'm honest, isn't half as bad. It still involves heavy make up, but some of the gals are hawt.

[greg]

I hate bleached hair, but her look isn't bad. If she were to paint her face dark and wear white eye makeup and white lipgloss, she'd still be an evil spectre of fright. Ugly girls making themselves ugly or pretty girls making themselves ugly... they're both ugly.

[Skykid]

I hate bleached hair, but her look isn't bad. If she were to paint her face dark and wear white eye makeup and white lipgloss, she'd still be an evil spectre of fright. Ugly girls making themselves ugly or pretty girls making themselves ugly... they're both ugly.

Gyaru is actually a lot paler, she just happens to have fake tan. And quite a bit of surgery, but that's common too.

[Randorama]

Sounds like you run with some real winners.

Another headless chook comment. Winner in what, PC-correct comments? Worship in dictatorships? Artsy partsy non-sense? Oh, you must only mix with rich fancy winners, hm?

Not the other sub-humans who can move abroad, build up a new life, and give books explaining where the problems stem from, in their homelands? But ehi, you stick with the winners, I stick with the losers, right?

Oh, ehi, one guy made good movies, all is forgiven. Are you seriously this brain-dead? Do you read what you write?

Keep fighting the good fight. Glad you're on our side.

You haven't answered to my questions, btw. Are black poor kids from Kenya non-kosher, and spoiled japanese teen kosher? Can we save the nazis because of Leni Riefenstahl? Certainly not Kenyans, no good art, hm?

[Moniker]

You haven't answered to my questions, btw.

ok

Are black poor kids from Kenya non-kosher

no

and spoiled japanese teen kosher?

yes

Can we save the nazis because of Leni Riefenstahl?

hmm... no?

Certainly not Kenyans, no good art, hm?

au contraire

But ehi, you stick with the winners, I stick with the losers, right?

yes

Are you seriously this brain-dead?

...

Do you read what you write?

no

[Randorama]

Lolz, yeah maybe. That said the underground manga industry has been catering for ultra-violent (see: horrific) pornography (guro, snuff whatever) since forever. I'm sure plenty of foreigners make beelines for that stuff when they hit Tokyo, like it's some kind of forbidden fruit.

I can add that I can be silent on this, and my silence would be telling. Nevertheless: with the right contacts, Gaijins can access to some really twisted stuff, say, live versions of the things I mention in the previous post.

Oh, and on the whole question of a covert police state being correlated to a powerful economy (you aasked this one a bit before):


...Not really. Someone like Stiglitz or Rifkin studied the phenomenon. To cut a long story short, a dictatorial-like state (or just a dictatorship) don't give any further any impulse to strong productivity than a free democracy, where people are self-motivated to produce a lot. A clear legislation is perhaps the strongest factor, and it becomes very relevant when a country transits from an industrial to a purely tertiary economy. This is the top-down part (from government to citizens).

From experience, Netherlands and Singapore are countries in which you compile 10 minutes of modules and you can open a shop, and get money quickly. Both countries have public services that collect citizens' complaints on useless red tape, and analyze how to simplify legislation. This makes the handling of any commercial activity, from small to big, much smoother, i.e. more productive.

Being small is also quite useful: small countries with simple, efficient systems are always advantaged, because they can offer good services with small expense. See above. But a government can also channel most energies in one place. Isn't the Tokyo conglomerate at, like, 30+M citizens, with another 30+M or so within 1 hour of train? The Essen conglomerate in Germany, and basically the whole of NL are similar.

For the bottom-up part (citizens to government): the question is whether is fear and control, or motivation and drive to earn, the best drive for citizens. There seems not to be crucial evidence in either direction. Pre-WII II Germany and post-WWII should have had similar rates of production (you shouldn't trust my bad memory on this), but people had different, very different reasons to perform.

Bottom line, if money is a key goal, types of government may not be relevant to reach this goal.
And, since you just posted, Moniker:

Are you seriously this brain-dead?

As far as I am concerned, your posts in this thread have been disturbing, because you contradicted yourself too much, certainly without ill will. If we put them together, it sounds like you're a headless chook, and that would be quite surprising.

As I am somewhat of a Chomskian, I think that people can be quite smart (i.e. their intellectual competence is high), but their contigent words may not show this (i.e. their intellectual performance is low). So, if you string several post that seem to originate from poor performance, the rhetorical question above arises in my head.

My posts may be so acid and bilious they could tear down concrete, but I'd rather post those than some artificial, "nice" comments on how everybody should get along and all the places are nice. Vitriol has never killed anyone and is not illegal.

[Cuilan]

Please give us a rundown. I know you're dying to start a "Cuilan is a sick fuck Mark 2" thread, so just go ahead.

I'm imagining futanari, most of Boku no Pico, and maybe some Waita Uziga for good measure.

Edit: You already posted some, but I mean the other stuff.

Boku no Pico technically isn't a manga (though the character designer, Saigadou, did release a couple of semi-official doujins), and I'm not really in to Uziga's stuff.

But honestly, would you be surprised if I had futanari or stuff similar to Boku no Pico? Of course not, and that's why I only listed the "out of character" titles I have.

[BPzeBanshee]

Please give us a rundown. I know you're dying to start a "Cuilan is a sick fuck Mark 2" thread, so just go ahead.

I'm imagining futanari, most of Boku no Pico, and maybe some Waita Uziga for good measure.

Edit: You already posted some, but I mean the other stuff.

Boku no Pico technically isn't a manga (though the character designer, Saigadou, did release a couple of semi-official doujins), and I'm not really in to Uziga's stuff.

But honestly, would you be surprised if I had futanari or stuff similar to Boku no Pico? Of course not, and that's why I only listed the "out of character" titles I have.

No, I don't think anyone could really be surprised after the egg fetish fiasco, but I'll laugh with you if you make a new thread for sure!

Comedy Gold @ Shmups Forums FTW

[kernow]

manga collection

lol

[Paradigm]

Congrats to you Randorama for becoming my new favourite worst poster on the internet in only a handful of posts.

Best bits were when you said "I don't get along with the common man" (pure gold), and when Moniker's post about the poor Kenyan who offered him sex for his shoes caused your insecurities to shoot in to overdrive - mistaking it for some braggadocio comment about getting pussy - and come back with "they all wanted to fuck me, all the little Japanese girls and even a Dutch teen! I'd make a much better paedophile than you, my friend." (not a direct quote, but still).

Have you ever considered going on Big Brother? They'd love you on there, the 'horribly pretentious egotistical cunt' types go down rather well on that show.

Anyway, don't mind me. Just chalk this down as another post from a "headless chook" ehi, hm?

Dick.

[kernow]

alright love we've all had a drink

[Skykid]

Lolz, yeah maybe. That said the underground manga industry has been catering for ultra-violent (see: horrific) pornography (guro, snuff whatever) since forever. I'm sure plenty of foreigners make beelines for that stuff when they hit Tokyo, like it's some kind of forbidden fruit.

I can add that I can be silent on this, and my silence would be telling. Nevertheless: with the right contacts, Gaijins can access to some really twisted stuff, say, live versions of the things I mention in the previous post.

Hold on - live versions of underground manga I mentioned or you mentioned? Underage porn wouldn't surprise me, there is a culture of old men courting young girls with expensive handbags as a trade for their virginity, but I'd be hard pressed to believe things like Ero Guro have ever been practised as live action (that would be like, murder.)

[rancor]

Hold on - live versions of underground manga I mentioned or you mentioned? Underage porn wouldn't surprise me..

Drink milk straight from the tit!

!!NSFW!!

http://www.chichipara.com/bonyu/

[Skykid]

Hold on - live versions of underground manga I mentioned or you mentioned? Underage porn wouldn't surprise me..

Drink milk straight from the tit!

!!NSFW!!

http://www.chichipara.com/bonyu/

The name of that website reminded me of something...

Tototo chichipapapap! NahNahNah NahraNahraaaa!

Clearly his involuntary outbursts were brought on by a lactation fetish.

[Randorama]

headless chook post +1

Done, you're welcome. I thought about Beauty and the geek, to be fair. As the beauty AND the geek, of course!

Hold on - live versions of underground manga I mentioned or you mentioned? Underage porn wouldn't surprise me, there is a culture of old men courting young girls with expensive handbags as a trade for their virginity, but I'd be hard pressed to believe things like Ero Guro have ever been practised as live action (that would be like, murder.)

No, but the rumours say that both of the two things I mentioned in my previous post (on this topic) are performed live, in Yakuza-owned clubs.

On the wider topic: I am pretty much sure that Japan and a few other countries never implemented a set of laws that were designed by...the UN organization for children's protection (name?), in the '70s, as a crack-down on children's sexual exploitation.

Basically, until '73 or so, in several countries there were no real laws regulating participation of people not of legal age in pornographic activities and prostitution. While these laws were pushed forward and approved in several countries, a few "western" governments did not implement them in a clear, explicit way in their body of laws.

Japan should be one, and a few others should be european countries. I think that, technically, page 3 girls in England can be as young as 16, and that the dutch law consents 17 y.o. girls to participate in soft-core movies. I remember a dutch pr0n series called seventeen, from my Utrecht days. And, a big-boobed starlet called McKenzie or something made a first photo shot while 16 or 17.

And then there is a legal netherworld involving online stuff: if a 14 yo is frisky and sends naked pictures of herself around, who commits the crime? The girl or the receiver? What about she buys sex toys online (hard, but possible)? Current laws in Australia are not helpful to judges, as far as I read, but various other countries should be in the same situation (certainly Italy, possibly rest of Europe).

More in general, proper laws that explicitly block underage people from participating in paid sexual activities, consentual or not, tend to be quite fuzzier than we would like to think, regardless of the country. Add that not only children are being massively "sexified" a bit everywhere, but that in general we are having a drift toward porn obsession, and the mix can give a quite dangerous result.
On Japan, as GP always says, laws tend to be selectively implemented, so even if there is some legislation, whether it is applied or not is a bit of a roulette.

Apparently, everybody wants to put his/her porn movie on the interweb, which is a golden situation for the usual sharks, whether it is Yakuza, Mafia, Thai brothels, and their clients.

[Skykid]

I think that, technically, page 3 girls in England can be as young as 16

Before 2004 it was possible and did occur. That's weird to think about now, I can't ever remember seeing a topless 16yr old in the tabloids.

No, but the rumours say that both of the two things I mentioned in my previous post (on this topic) are performed live, in Yakuza-owned clubs.

Well Japan does as Japan wants. Naughty taboos are probably great for blowing off that highly pressurised working life, Yakuza or otherwise. I'm not sure which of your posts you're referring to (you've made quite a few), so unless you want to quote yourself for some clarity in terms of subject matter I'll leave it to the imagination and assume it's something shocking.

And then there is a legal netherworld involving online stuff: if a 14 yo is frisky and sends naked pictures of herself around, who commits the crime? The girl or the receiver?

I believe in the UK it's the receiver.
I know some guy got incarcerated when Gaijinpunch sent nude pictures of himself over the internet.

[greg]

Drink milk straight from the tit!

!!NSFW!!

http://www.chichipara.com/bonyu/

Japan: where not even motherhood is respected and has been exploited as a fetish. I mean, I have philosophical issues with the MILF concept, but a lactation fetish carries it way too far. To be fair, I'm sure this exists on my side of the ocean too, but I imagine it's not as polished of a fetish as Japan can present it to be.

[DragonInstall]

Wonder what it taste like.

On the side note: my sister has a lolita complex. What should I do?

[Skykid]

Wonder what it taste like.

On the side note: my sister has a lolita complex. What should I do?

Buy her a dress.

[DragonInstall]

Wonder what it taste like.

On the side note: my sister has a lolita complex. What should I do?

Buy her a dress.

She might just buy one of those one day. She already buys clothing from korea and japan.. expensive as shit. But I guess it's better for her to be interested in that, rather than drugs and alcohol in college.

Just hope she doesn't go overboard, since I'm the one flipping the bill for everything she does. It sucks to be the older brother in the family sometimes.

[Cuilan]

lol

Seriously though kernow, for someone who claims to hate Japan/Anime as much as you do, you seem to post in just about every thread related to these subjects. It's giving me the impression that you secretly like this stuff. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if you enjoy watching super-moe/loli anime when no one's around.

Tsundere for Japan...that's quite meta...

[greg]

Seriously though kernow, for someone who claims to hate Japan/Anime as much as you do, you seem to post in just about every thread related to these subjects. It's giving me the impression that you secretly like this stuff.

Good observation! It's either your theory is true, or he's just bored out of his skull and feels the need to read every single topic on this forum. Either scenario is rather lame.

[Paradigm]

It's either your theory is true, or he's just bored out of his skull and feels the need to read every single topic on this forum. Either scenario is rather lame.

Or he just likes poking fun at otaku nerds for the lolz.

[Cuilan]

Or he just likes poking fun at otaku nerds for the lolz.

That's possible, but I think my theory is the most amusing one.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

It's either your theory is true, or he's just bored out of his skull and feels the need to read every single topic on this forum. Either scenario is rather lame.

Or he just likes poking fun at otaku nerds for the lolz.

He'd still have to be bored out of his skull to even bother doing that so consistently.