Japan is really going overboard with this moe thing

[xbl0x180]

Real men don't watch



But then posts Oyari Ashito art.

I don't collect or have collected works from either artist. Their designs are alright, but I don't like their themes and stories. I did end up buying Clannad because the series box set was on the cheep for about 35 or 36 bucks total (including shipping). It's kind of an unreal price since I used to pay upwards of hundreds of dollars back in the 90s for a complete series.

Even then, I haven't been enthralled by what I've seen so far of Clannad (10 episodes, so far), and this is supposed to be good. The animation is fluid, the theme and background music are good, the story sounds interesting, but the execution wasn't up to scratch. The main issue I see is that the characters are drawn to look as if they were middle school kids rather than high school, and this goes up to the depictions of the "adults." The behaviour of some of the characters also do not match that of teens or young adults, or adults. Hell, there's only so much high-pitched girly voices some viewers can take before it ceases to be "cute." In short, the show is too "cutesy." It's cute for the sake of being cute.

It's a matter of preference. I like what would be considered "moe," but it's specific to certain style designs and story elements. I loved Urusei Yatsura and Ranma 1/2. Kimagure Orange Road was awesome. I liked Video Girl Ai and thought DNA^2 was okay (mainly the manga). I think the last really good series where I found myself watching marathons of episodes was Marmalade Boy. I hate to use the word "realistic," so I will go ahead and use the other common phrase: "slice-of-life." I enjoy watching some slice-of-life series.

If I were to think of live-action series analogous to what I'm referring to they'd be along the lines of the Degrassi series from the late 80s and early 90s (not the new ones), Ready Or Not, Freaks And Geeks, and The Office (UK version). Some of the writing for these was really good with just the right amounts of drama and [sometimes deadpan] comedy to really flesh out the characters; they felt "realistic." In this sense, viewers become invested in the happenings and going-ons in the series. Anime used to have series that worked on that level (another would be Maison Ikkoku). I miss that kind of teleplay writing and acting

[Moniker]

I mentioned Murakami & Kurosawa as examples of people who explore post-war Japanese culture and would thereby be informative. And yes, I was thinking of Ikiru's indictment of Japanese bureaucracy. These were not examples of the current cutting edge of Japanese art. The main point is that the comment that the world probably benefit from the disappearance of contemporary Asian culture is sweeping and stupid. If you bother to look in the right places you'll find worthwhile things just about anywhere. I've spent a month apiece in Tokyo & Taiwan. The culture wasn't any more bankrupt than the US's. No, I don't approve of the PRC's authoritarianism. Blah blah. You want fucked up shit look at rural Kenya. An eleven-ish year old offered me sex in exchange for my beat up pair of Vans (no, I didn't take her up on it.) Even in that place there were redeeming qualities.

A condemnation of something as massive as a culture, based on anything less than a significant portion of one's life spent there, is completely useless. And those who have spent the time and do condemn it are either venting particular frustrations, or are just narrow, bitter people in general.

A lot of urine in a lot of cheerios today.

[Elixir]

words

Why don't you try the visual novel of Clannad? It's highly rated and, well, the general rule of thumb is that anime adaptations of games are inferior.

It's pretty long though, I didn't manage to finish it. Personally, I'd rather read through something than watch through something.

[Skykid]

An eleven-ish year old offered me sex in exchange for my beat up pair of Vans (no, I didn't take her up on it.)

You should have haggled.

[Moniker]

An eleven-ish year old offered me sex in exchange for my beat up pair of Vans (no, I didn't take her up on it.)

You should have haggled.

There's always next time. I have lots of shoes.

[Cuilan]

I think you guys would be surprised at half of the titles I have in my manga collection.

[manatworks]

words

Why don't you try the visual novel of Clannad? It's highly rated and, well, the general rule of thumb is that anime adaptations of games are inferior.

It's pretty long though, I didn't manage to finish it. Personally, I'd rather read through something than watch through something.

i've to admit that there're some boring moment in this one, but overall it's a really nice read for Vn.

[Elixir]

I think you guys would be surprised at half of the titles I have in my manga collection.

(not)

[rancor]

I think you guys would be surprised at half of the titles I have in my manga collection.

I ran through a list of titles and nothing really surprised me that much - until I thought of the manga my father-in-law reads. It's called "Asian King" and it's a how-to manga about old, bald, and fat Japanese men banging hookers in 3rd world countries. It goes on about hygiene, checking diseased vaginas, ejaculation etiquette, how to negotiate anal, good hotels to take your $3 hooker to.. There's literally a wealth of knowledge for the monthly subscriber. All presented in manga format.

If you had that title, I would be surprised.

I may need to do some scans.. haha.. It's unbelievable

[Randorama]

I mentioned Murakami & Kurosawa as examples of people who explore post-war Japanese culture and would thereby be informative. And yes, I was thinking of Ikiru's indictment of Japanese bureaucracy. These were not examples of the current cutting edge of Japanese art. The main point is that the comment that the world probably benefit from the disappearance of contemporary Asian culture is sweeping and stupid.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

But, I meant something much more vitriolic, though, in my original post. If we could bundle together a number of countries which have terminal amounts of massification, to the point that all worthwhile things are simply drowned by the current onslaught of mediocrity, and then make them disappear, I would not really shed a tear.

This includes the place I come from, Italy, which passes as a land of arts and culture. Say, Tuscany holds 11% of humankind's arts heritage, because rich and arrogant people of the past wanted to splash their cash on big, cultural thingies. Yet, given the state of society at large, I would not mind drowning this heritage at all. Art is not all, in life, much like money.

I agree that it is difficult to self-emancipate when one's receives a daily brain-washing, but the swiftest (not good, swiftest) solution is just throw the whole problem away. We can give a safe-conduct to the artists, in case. Frankly, arts are a luxurious past-time for those who can afford them, time-, education- and money-wise. So, I don't place them very high on a scale of priorities in life. C'est la vie. See also below.

If you bother to look in the right places you'll find worthwhile things just about anywhere. I've spent a month apiece in Tokyo & Taiwan. The culture wasn't any more bankrupt than the US's. No, I don't approve of the PRC's authoritarianism. Blah blah. You want fucked up shit look at rural Kenya. An eleven-ish year old offered me sex in exchange for my beat up pair of Vans (no, I didn't take her up on it.) Even in that place there were redeeming qualities.

I don't doubt this, but statistically speaking, one good (or bad) thing out of 1 million is, well, not very indicative of a place and its "culture". Because:

A condemnation of something as massive as a culture, based on anything less than a significant portion of one's life spent there, is completely useless.

And did you have any first-hand life experience of any other place rather than yours, by chance? Aren't you, instead, just a wet-behind-the-ears, PC-obssessed tourist? What is your experience of "awesome asia", hentai porn? Token asian friends? Pantsu by mail? Noodles? Can you go and live abroad, and challenge yourself to uphold your monumentally naive views, after you've done so?

Aside that, I am actually not "condemning" any culture, but the lack thereof, that exists in certain countries, for reasons that are vastly out of the reach of the victims. Certain asian countries, I'd add for external influences such as "the West", have a particular bad case of those. Say, Australia. In fact, as a reaction, those who self-emancipate and are in the arts often criticize such lack of culture. Effect of this brilliant, vibrant criticism?

Zip.

Art doesn't change shit, because to enjoy art, you need to have a modicum of education and culture, and that is sorely lacking everywhere, with spikes in the countries I listed.

You are a prime example.

And those who have spent the time and do condemn it are either venting particular frustrations, or are just narrow, bitter people in general. A lot of urine in a lot of cheerios today.

I couldn't care less about the way several countries work, although if they would disappear tomorrow I wouldn't budge an inch. And I lived there, unlike you.

That's pretty cynical a statement, but the world will still turn around, be assured. Congratulations for another headless chook post.

[Randorama]

You want fucked up shit look at rural Kenya. An eleven-ish year old offered me sex in exchange for my beat up pair of Vans (no, I didn't take her up on it.) Even in that place there were redeeming qualities.

Oh, and this.

I got pussy offered everywhere, by underages. In Japan, the idea of fucking a sexy (because I am sexy) Italian gaijin working in Australia is possibly the ultimate status quo, ever (like Muchi ports). In China and Thailand, it is a good way to get a probably gentle and generous client. Apparently, european paedophiles are "nicer" than other western ones. In Italy...well, c'mon, Italians can only breed, watch soccer and complain about Berlusconi, what you'd expect?

(Got offers in NL too, but she was seventeen, c'mon).

[drauch]

I think you guys would be surprised at half of the titles I have in my manga collection.

I ran through a list of titles and nothing really surprised me that much - until I thought of the manga my father-in-law reads. It's called "Asian King" and it's a how-to manga about old, bald, and fat Japanese men banging hookers in 3rd world countries. It goes on about hygiene, checking diseased vaginas, ejaculation etiquette, how to negotiate anal, good hotels to take your $3 hooker to.. There's literally a wealth of knowledge for the monthly subscriber. All presented in manga format.

If you had that title, I would be surprised.

I may need to do some scans.. haha.. It's unbelievable

Uhhhhhhh, please do.

[rancor]

Uhhhhhhh, please do.

I'm putting an issue in with your Saturn game you just ordered. He's got literally hundreds - I don't think he'll miss one.

[Cuilan]

I ran through a list of titles and nothing really surprised me that much - until I thought of the manga my father-in-law reads. It's called "Asian King" and it's a how-to manga about old, bald, and fat Japanese men banging hookers in 3rd world countries. It goes on about hygiene, checking diseased vaginas, ejaculation etiquette, how to negotiate anal, good hotels to take your $3 hooker to.. There's literally a wealth of knowledge for the monthly subscriber. All presented in manga format.

If you had that title, I would be surprised.

I may need to do some scans.. haha.. It's unbelievable

Er...yeah, I don't think I have anything in my collection that is quite that "out of character". The half of my collection that I was referring to is probably kinda boring by comparison :

Souten no Ken
Guyver
BLAME! + NOiSE
Berserk
Kerberos Panzer Cop

[rancor]

Ok - here are a few scans of the issue I'm sending to Drauch.

Features in this issue include:

1. Hosting a Cambodian sex party for you and all your fat friends on the cheap!
2. Where to find hookers in Manila (is it really that hard?)
3. Street Girls of Singapore
4. A review of "natural" sex performance drugs
5. cock hygiene
6. Don't eat hooker pussy (a story with a lesson at the end)

Pics - Possibly not safe for work.

Cover
map of sex clubs / bars in Manila
manga

[NTSC-J]

Your father-in-law sounds like a classy guy.

[GaijinPunch]

Your father-in-law sounds like a classy guy.

Maybe he has your missing issues.

[rancor]

Your father-in-law sounds like a classy guy.

He is 100% asshole. If he had any sort of power at all he would be dangerous - seriously, like a Kim Jong-Il or Stalin. Brutal. His wife is constantly under his thumb and my wifes life through her school years was a constant hell. In his early married life he was always going aboard to fuck other women and still today reminds his wife of this fact. He still talks about it over dinner as the best years of his life. Constant emotional abuse.

Here's a good example of something he did: When my wife was in Elementary school she became interested in studying English. Her mother decided to buy her some English books from, oh I dunno, one of those large companies - Nova or some shit - anyhow they weren't at all expensive. When he found out, he flew into a rage and demanded she return them and get the money back - the company refused, so he went to city hall and declared his wife mentally retarded and therefore unfit to sign contracts. He got his money back. He also got another woman pregnant a few years back and made her get an abortion. He's in the construction biz if that tells you anything.

Classy guy? Not really.

[Skykid]

Your father-in-law sounds like a classy guy.

He is 100% asshole. If he had any sort of power at all he would be dangerous - seriously, like a Kim Jong-Il or Stalin. Brutal. His wife is constantly under his thumb and my wifes life through her school years was a constant hell. In his early married life he was always going aboard to fuck other women and still today reminds his wife of this fact. He still talks about it over dinner as the best years of his life. Constant emotional abuse.

Here's a good example of something he did: When my wife was in Elementary school she became interested in studying English. Her mother decided to buy her some English books from, oh I dunno, one of those large companies - Nova or some shit - anyhow they weren't at all expensive. When he found out, he flew into a rage and demanded she return them and get the money back - the company refused, so he went to city hall and declared his wife mentally retarded and therefore unfit to sign contracts. He got his money back. He also got another woman pregnant a few years back and made her get an abortion. He's in the construction biz if that tells you anything.

Classy guy? Not really.

Jesus Christ, the stuff that flies in Japan never ceases to amaze. That poor woman should have upped and left ages ago instead of suffering out an existence with that twat.
At least her daughter has done well and got herself a decent gaijin with a sense of values. I'm sure she takes some comfort in that.

On the same topic but also off of it, Japan's dark side is dark indeed. It's a dichotomy of openly accepted sexual freedoms from general perversions to groping, but within a police state where the system exerts an astronomically rigid amount of control and pressure over the common man. I wonder sometimes, if this almost totalitarian governing structure didn't exist in Japan, if they would have been so successful and productive as an economy?
It's just so weird, because as a tourist you only enjoy the facade: neon, trinkets, toys and women. But for a family like Rancor's in-laws I'm sure it's far less of a rollercoaster.

[rancor]

That poor woman should have upped and left ages ago instead of suffering out an existence with that twat.

Quite literally nowhere to go. Shes from rural Japan, and he was a rich city boy. I think she was 15-16 and he was mid-20's when they got married. Her parents practically sold her to him and said "don't come back" because divorce would have been the ultimate shame. If she had left or displeased him in anyway she would have been out on the streets with literally nowhere to go. She didn't finish H.S. and has no skills other than being a housewife. Really a sad life, but it's a lot more common than you would believe.

[Skykid]

That poor woman should have upped and left ages ago instead of suffering out an existence with that twat.

Quite literally nowhere to go. Shes from rural Japan, and he was a rich city boy. I think she was 15-16 and he was mid-20's when they got married. Her parents practically sold her to him and said "don't come back" because divorce would have been the ultimate shame. If she had left or displeased him in anyway she would have been out on the streets with literally nowhere to go. She didn't finish H.S. and has no skills other than being a housewife. Really a sad life, but it's a lot more common than you would believe.

It's not unfortunately.

I'm not a Japanese resident, but I'm also not a one-sided Japanophile who chooses to go uneducated on the social aspects. I certainly don't resent Japan for being itself, but I do pity the folk who value shame to a fault.
It's certainly no capitalist haven, that's for sure. I think Hong Kong is the apex when it comes to a profit led system as it works to fundamentally serve and encourage its people.

[ancestral-knowledge]

Women in general never cease to amaze me how they can bear up with fucking assholes their entire lifetime.

[Moniker]

@ Rando - I feel like we had the exact same conversation in the Qadaffi thread (I think it was you, anyway). If so, it's kind of surprising you're questioning the depth of my personal experience again here. I have spent years living abroad. My asian friends are anything but token. It's not about being PC, it's about evening out the vitriol, since no one else was stepping up. Whatever, internet is internet and I ought not let myself be provoked.

[Randorama]

@ Rando - I feel like we had the exact same conversation in the Qadaffi thread (I think it was you, anyway). If so, it's kind of surprising you're questioning the depth of my personal experience again here. I have spent years living abroad. My asian friends are anything but token.

That was xbl0x180, on issues regarding 9/11.

I am questioning the depth of your experience because you mention, of all things, art, to "defend" "asian cultures" from my bad, nasty vitriol. Did you serve in the military and lived in some cotton-wool, alternate world?

Shame that in the same post I also included virtually the whole of Anglophonic world (ehi, please move South Africa and Canada into the Pacific, to come full circle), as well as one Latin country (...Italy), which I happen to come from.

Shame also that I mentioned that I don't blame the locals for the dire environment they grow up in, since that would be a guilt of those abonimable structures, known as governments, that they had to endure.

Shame also that I happen to know tons of asian immigrants and asian-australians who have way more vitriolic comments than I do, on their countries (immigrants) and local communities (asian-australians). Most would agree: something's good is in their place, too. In statistically significant quantities? No.

And, say, Kenya is full of black people...hmmm, was your comment incidental? Damn those black lascivious kids, uh? So superficial to sell you sex for a Gucci bag they saw in Xi'an shopping centre or Ginza...

I'll keep my vitriol. It's safer than Godzilla's attacks, for the future of my future in-laws, and democratically controlled neighbours.

It's just so weird, because as a tourist you only enjoy the facade: neon, trinkets, toys and women. But for a family like Rancor's in-laws I'm sure it's far less of a rollercoaster.

Because the market of tourists into wife-beating is still in its embryonal form. Might be the next thing after moe. Judging by the Pr0n, once the Incest and tentacle rape fads is over, it may be all the rage.

[Skykid]

It's just so weird, because as a tourist you only enjoy the facade: neon, trinkets, toys and women. But for a family like Rancor's in-laws I'm sure it's far less of a rollercoaster.

Because the market of tourists into wife-beating is still in its embryonal form. Might be the next thing after moe. Judging by the Pr0n, once the Incest and tentacle rape fads is over, it may be all the rage.

Lolz, yeah maybe. That said the underground manga industry has been catering for ultra-violent (see: horrific) pornography (guro, snuff whatever) since forever. I'm sure plenty of foreigners make beelines for that stuff when they hit Tokyo, like it's some kind of forbidden fruit.

[drauch]

Ok - here are a few scans of the issue I'm sending to Drauch.

Features in this issue include:

1. Hosting a Cambodian sex party for you and all your fat friends on the cheap!
2. Where to find hookers in Manila (is it really that hard?)
3. Street Girls of Singapore
4. A review of "natural" sex performance drugs
5. cock hygiene
6. Don't eat hooker pussy (a story with a lesson at the end)

Pics - Possibly not safe for work.

Cover
map of sex clubs / bars in Manila
manga

Shit, that looks ridiculous! I'm pumped.

[Moniker]

Shame also that I happen to know tons of asian immigrants and asian-australians who have way more vitriolic comments than I do, on their countries (immigrants) and local communities (asian-australians). Most would agree: something's good is in their place, too. In statistically significant quantities? No.

Sounds like you run with some real winners.

I'll keep my vitriol. It's safer than Godzilla's attacks, for the future of my future in-laws, and democratically controlled neighbours.

Keep fighting the good fight. Glad you're on our side.

[greg]

Perhaps I sound like a weeaboo defending Japan or whatever, but I'll just say this: as terrible as it sounds to hear stories such as Rancor's in-laws (my Japanese in-laws have a crappy story, but it's tame in comparison), aren't you all forgetting the depravity in our respective countries? I'm sure that if I were to live in Japan again, I'd be complaining of the stuff I would see there. I live in the USA, and all I have to do is watch an episode of COPS to get an idea of how sick my own country is. Tattooed women crying their eyes out, mascara streaming down their cheeks, whining to the police officers about how they just can't seem to find a man who doesn't have a police record. Women who are systematically abused, the cops know her by name because of how many times they've been called out to their place, and yet they still refuse to press charges and leave their abusive husbands. So in Japan, women may be disuaded from sticking up for themselves, but it still goes on over here, too.

I've never been to the UK, where a lot of you are from, so I can only speak for the USA. It's convenient for us to feel justified in pointing fingers at countries like Thailand because of the child prostitution there, or at Japan because of the whole lolicon fetish that we see today becoming more prevalent in anime, manga, and whatnot. We need to stop and realize that while both of these issues are bad, American society as a whole is sexualizing our daughters. And not only that, but our society and media are encouraging these girls to sexualize themselves. This is sick and wrong, and it's only getting worse. They have stuff like high heels for babies, stores sell G-strings in little girl sizes, dolls and toys that indoctrinate tiny girls into wanting to wear makeup, and you can find T-shirts for girls that say "spoiled rotten," "little princess," or "I may be little but I am not easy." Or those pants that say "JUICY" written across the ass. But as bad as it is for Japan to depict little girls as sexual objects, American society is guilty of encouraging girls to sexualize themselves. Which is worse, forcing sexualization onto girls, or brainwashing them through the media to embrace it of their own free will? It's crazy to see how many teenage girls in the USA wear those spaghetti strap titty shirts and other tramp clothing, and beg their parents for tattoos and such. You just don't see that in Japan. So really, there are plenty of ups and downs to every country. Have you ever noticed that other people's farts smell worse than your own? It's the same concept.

[Udderdude]

Every society has sick shit going on in some corner of it, it's just the level and depravity of said sick shit that differs.

There is no utopia. :P

[greg]

Every society has sick shit going on in some corner of it, it's just the level and depravity of said sick shit that differs.

There is no utopia.

Thanks. That's what I meant to say, except that I'm too verbose. Guys who treat their women like crap continue to do so because there are enough women who will put up with it. We have stuff like "2 girls 1 cup" because there are enough pepole who will watch sick stuff like that, and women who will cooperate in the making of that. Where'd that come from, anyway? Brazil? Whichever country is responsible for that being made, it doesn't change the fact that there are still plenty of decent people in that country who love their family just as much as you or me.