HD Box Pro: cheap (and good) alternative to the XRGB-3

[fagin]

This might sound really stupid..... but I assume your VGA lead to your monitor, is actually plugged in to the OUTPUT VGA and not the INPUT VGA on the HDBoxPro?!

[Oneweirdguy]

Yes the VGA cable is plugged into the port labeled output. I even tried it in input port as well knowing it shouldn't work but not ruling it out.

[fagin]

It's either a faulty box, psu, vga cable or your monitor can't sync with the HDBOXPro signal / resolution. Have you tried it on another TV or monitor for instance? What is your monitor telling you about the VGA input... "out of range", "no sync", "no signal" etc when the HDBoxPro is connected and switched on?

[Shakey_Jake33]

Not meaning to sound patronising, but is there definately power going to the device? A light should appear somewhere on the device if there is.

I ask this because the outer casing for the HD Box Pro isn't a very good fit, I had a similar problem and it turned out that the power connect wasn't in far enough (despite looking fine from the outside) and I had to shave the hole a bit to get the power connector to insert correctly.

[Oneweirdguy]

My monitor gives me a 'No signal' message it's the same message if I were to unplug/power off whats running to my HDMI or DVI cable from it. I tried the box on another monitor with a different VGA cable and got the same result. The box and PSU also both clearly show a green power light when plugged in and can even be changed to stand-by, Red LED.

[fagin]

It's probably pointing towards a faulty HDBOXPro unit. I would email the supplier and see what they suggest.

[MirceaRomania]

HAd anyone try this? How come this tiny stick convert the semnal ?
http://forums.consoleaddicted.com/Threa ... D-wii2HDMI

[MirceaRomania]

It arrived, it's ok , it has 1920X1080, it's a little blurry the image when i play on my wii, it;s also blurry even throw the passthrough, i dont know why.

[MirceaRomania]

Anyone know hpw to fix the blurry problem trough the passthrough , it's very anoying on a 24'' , u can see the difference betwean crystal clear and a little bit blurry.In game from distance isn't noticeable but when i stay on my laptop, closer wich is hookepd up to the monitor my eyes are geetting funky )

[fagin]

Anyone know hpw to fix the blurry problem trough the passthrough , it's very anoying on a 24'' , u can see the difference betwean crystal clear and a little bit blurry.In game from distance isn't noticeable but when i stay on my laptop, closer wich is hookepd up to the monitor my eyes are geetting funky )

I'm not sure it is fixable..... that's what you get for a cheap scaler.

[MirceaRomania]

I've moved the wii on a 19 '' monitor , so it;s independent from my laptop conected on the 24'' monitor.It;s ok.I;m very pleased about the BOX.A good solution until i'll buy a tv with component in.

[FrankCastleAZ]

I've been using HD Box Pro version 2s and the duplicate of the version 1 sold by monoprice for over a year now in my video gaming areas in conventions and events.
My original purchases of them came after hours of research which involved the posts here (Thank You!), on SRK, NeoGeo forums and many other places.

I am pleased with them, but they've been a huge pain to me because of the small annoyances and learning curves on how to set them up.

I've done a lot of research, had a lot of experience with them and thought about them a lot over the last year and a half and thought I'd share my research and knowledge with you guys in case someone else can do more research on the device and/or others are looking for confirmation on how well the HD Box Pro performs.

Important Notes about testing conditions:

Test results of the following monitors/tvs are shown HERE

19" Acer Monitor - V193WEJb
19" AOC Monitor - 917Sw
24" Ativa Monitor - AT240HP
26" Auria Monitor - EQ266A
24" Auria Monitor - EQ236
24" Hanns G Monitor - HH241
42" Vizio TV - VO420E
32" Vizio TV - VOJ320F1A
22" Vizio TV - VW22L

They were all tested using in the following formats:

1 - Laptop > VGA cable > HD Box Pro > VGA cable > LCD Monitor/TV
and
2 - Laptop > VGA cable > HD Box Pro > VGA cable > Powered VGA Splitter > VGA cable > LCD Monitor/TV

Software used was the downloaded (not browser) version of the LCD Lag Test from FlatPanelsHD.com


These tests are not as complete as they should be for all video gaming consoles and therefore do not represent a perfect input latency/lag test for either the monitors/TVs or the HD Box Pro.


Ideally, the latency/lag test for both an LCD Monitor/TV and HD Box Pro would be used with a video gaming console in any of the following formats:

1 - Gaming Console > Component cable > HD Box Pro > VGA cable > Powered VGA Splitter > [VGA cable 1 > LCD Monitor/TV] [VGA cable 2 > CRT TV]
and/or
2 - Gaming Console > Component cable > Commercial quality amplified component splitter (that has been tested) > [Component cable 1 > HD Box Pro > VGA cable > LCD Monitor/TV] [Component cable 2 > CRT]

The problem with any method where you start by outputting component from a video gaming console is you can't run input latency/lag software from the gaming console.
Since many systems have a web browser, you can use the FlatPanelsHD.com browser supported test with your component output, but as mentioned in my observations, I'm unsure whether the test goes by each individual millisecond or if it skips. There's also the Lagom test that works within browser.


My observations from these tests and over time suggest the following key notes about the current setup format and using them with video gaming consoles:

1 - The VGA pass thru on the HD Box Pro is lagless or within the microsecond range (unnoticeable)

2 - The 400MHz powered VGA splitter that was used in the testing (Monoprice item 3569) is lagless or within the microsecond range (unnoticeable)

3 - All three Vizio TVs tested lag at least 32ms (2 frames of 60fps game) and are not tournament worthy.

4 - All monitors tested lag at a maximum of 5ms when using the VGA pass thru on the HD Box Pro and any video gaming system that supports VGA output (Dreamcast, 360) would be able to use the HD Box Pro v2 as a splitter well within tournament and personal standards.

5 - HD Box Pro itself is not verified to be lagless and cannot be verified until the ideal

6 - I'm unsure how reliable FlatPanelsHD.com's LCD lag test is as I believe the test might not run by each individual millisecond and may skip ahead in groups. I've also read that there are much better solutions out there which show moving lines along with the counter.

7 - The HD Box Pro must be already set at a low enough resolution when plugging it into a Wii or PS2. If the resolution was set high when used with a 360 or PS3 and then is unplugged and moved, you will not be able to see the on screen display for the HD Box Pro to change the resolution setting to a lower setting.

8 - I've had a friend who plays Beatmania in the arcade on whatever hard/fast difficulty and gets 400 note combos and many people within Arizona's Shoryuken, Dustloop and Smash Boards communities (including BLG Juicebox, Marvin, Blaaron and Abe from Arcade in a Box, MathGraffiti/Raymond, Hazem from Team Hazmat and many others) confirm via their skill and "feel" that the HD Box Pros are easily within tournament standards if they are set on the correct resolutions. I still have no official evidence on how much input latency/lag the HD Box Pro creates and I believe each resolution set on the HD Box Pro and from the gaming console will give a different input latency/lag output.

Hope this is of use.

I'll attempt to keep an eye here every once in a while. If anyone has any questions and would like to contact me my email is

frankcastlearizona[at]gmail.com

-FrankCastleAZ

[Fudoh]

The problem with any method where you start by outputting component from a video gaming console is you can't run input latency/lag software from the gaming console.

but you can use a Racing game or any other game with a millisecond counter on top (for example OutRun2).

[FrankCastleAZ]

The problem with any method where you start by outputting component from a video gaming console is you can't run input latency/lag software from the gaming console.

but you can use a Racing game or any other game with a millisecond counter on top (for example OutRun2).

That is a great suggestion I didn't think of and I don't recall seeing that on any other websites or forums dealing with latency.
I'll list it on my notes and test when I can.
I'll be sure to post with any results. It likely won't be for a while, but it's the least I can do.

-FrankCastleAZ

[StarCreator]

Just to be sure, your tests involving the IIDX players were done using the PS2 versions (480i component)?

[Hamburglar]

Hopefully someone here can give me a helping hand with a few questions!

The new DVD Edge got a new 240p processing mode last week which makes it - scanline emulation aside - the very best videogame processing device out there. At $700 still a bit more pricey than the HDBoxPro though

Which DVDO Edge is this? The DVDO Edge Green? There is no 240p processing mode for the original I assume?

Speaking about tinkering around, I recently purchased the Ambery RGB to VGA converter: http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html because it accepts pure RGB input from consoles and arcade boards (I’ll try it with my supergun). Sigh. I wish I didn’t have such a tinkering bug.

How is this in comparison to the HD Box Pro? Keep in mind that I am using almost all 240p material (RGB modded NES, SNES, Genesis).

I've managed to come across a company called Cypress Technology Co who make a variety of video scalers. The CM-397 will accept a CGA 15KHz Non-Interlaced 60Hz RGB signal and outputs it as VGA, XGA or WXGA.

CM-397 on CYP UK site

CM-397 Datasheet .pdf

Available here for $92. They also provide some more info and even mention IGS and Psikyo.

Seems to be one of the few scalers that will accept a real 240p signal, instead of treating it as a 480i signal. I'm wanting to test this on my 37" LCD with a NeoGeo, but it could be a while. I'll post results, but if anyone is interested in the meantime I'd like to hear how good it is and if it's lag-free.

Where did you get the info that it takes 240p input? I found the manual online and their ambery.com page does not mention 240p at all.

[Fudoh]

Which DVDO Edge is this? The DVDO Edge Green? There is no 240p processing mode for the original I assume?

currently the other way around. The Edge GREEN does not yet support 240p. Here's a video what it looks like on the Green: http://pms.hazard-city.de/edge_green_240p.mov . This should be an easy firmware fix though. ABT/DVDO is aware of it.

The "old" Edge (the one with front HDMI and the universal remote) does support 240p all around.

[Hamburglar]

Which DVDO Edge is this? The DVDO Edge Green? There is no 240p processing mode for the original I assume?

currently the other way around. The Edge GREEN does not yet support 240p. Here's a video what it looks like on the Green: http://pms.hazard-city.de/edge_green_240p.mov . This should be an easy firmware fix though. ABT/DVDO is aware of it.

The "old" Edge (the one with front HDMI and the universal remote) does support 240p all around.

Oh, I have the old DVDO Edge and I was under the impression 240p hasn't been support for a really long time. I remember you posting a really old firmware that did it.

[Fudoh]

Again the other way around. When the Edge was released 240p signals were detected as 480i only and therefore needed to be deinterlaced. Later on the firmware added real 240p recognition. But this was a long time ago already. I was a beta tester in summer of 2008 (I think) and I worked with ABT already before that to get 240p recognition on the VP50Pro. If I remember right the 50Pro got 240p in January 2009 and the Edge in spring after that.

I just posted the older FW because 240p recognition comes with ringing (halos) on the Edge, so some people might prefer the 480i handling.

[Hamburglar]

Oh now I get it! Sorry I got confused. You really are the master of this stuff.

So anyway, my plasma has a VGA input on it. For RGB SNES/NES/Genesis, what is my best option?

The HD Box Pro?
http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html ?
Or the MonoPrice clone of the HD Box Pro?

[FrankCastleAZ]

Just to be sure, your tests involving the IIDX players were done using the PS2 versions (480i component)?

Yes. The one in specific who played IIDX is an extremist with the game and is very good.

Oh now I get it! Sorry I got confused. You really are the master of this stuff.

So anyway, my plasma has a VGA input on it. For RGB SNES/NES/Genesis, what is my best option?

The HD Box Pro?
http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html ?
Or the MonoPrice clone of the HD Box Pro?

You don't want the HD Box Pro or the Monoprice version. Both only accept component inputs.

-FrankCastleAZ

[Hamburglar]

You don't want the HD Box Pro or the Monoprice version. Both only accept component inputs.

I don't how I missed that! I read this entire thread, too! Thanks so much. I am going to order this:

http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html

Since no one posted how good it is, I will post a mini review here when I get it. I am coming from a DVDO Edge so I have good reference material.

[Fudoh]

It's bad. No need to test it.

[Hamburglar]

It's bad. No need to test it.

I was 2 seconds away from ordering it. Thank you.

Is there anything I can buy that's moderately priced and will take VGA inputs and output VGA? Again I'd like to use the SyncStrike to use my SCART consoles, and my TV has VGA, but the TV won't take just the syncstrike with the VGA hookup.

[Fudoh]

The Sync Strike output is technically still "Scart" (in terms of 15khz RGB). So you're still looking for a RGB input, not really a VGA input. I don't really understand why you're looking for anything else than your Edge (given there's a solution to your "darkness" problem).

Your cheapest option would be the the CGA to VGA scaler for which the Sync Strike was made in the first place.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... Categories

It's basically the same processing as in the HDBoxPro, just with a RGB input. You can order a plexi case for the scaler from Arcade Forge to go nicely with your Sync Strike.

I would not really spend more money, since you've already got the Edge. If you have a SLG3000 (or can get one), you can create a setup like this:

Source > Sync Strike > CGA/VGA scaler > SLG3000 > Edge > TV

This solves your RGB problems on the Edge, gives you scanlines, the better scaling and full geometry controls through the Edge.

[Hamburglar]

I have the Sync Strike and the SLG3000 already. I never even got to try the SLG3000 because the SyncStrike was too dark. I think my DVDO Edge is defective, though. None of the HDMI in ports work any longer, and when I call SimplayLabs for help, I get some guy's voicemail who doesn't return my phone calls. So I'm throwing the DVDO Edge out of my setup permanently.

I will buy the item you linked to, and try that with the SyncStrike and SLG3000 going to my plasma's VGA input. Hope it works!

[Fudoh]

I get some guy's voicemail who doesn't return my phone calls.

Simplay recently apologized for the bad support over the past weeks. See here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost ... count=2816

Just send them another email and I'm sure you'll hear back soon.

[Hamburglar]

I get some guy's voicemail who doesn't return my phone calls.

Simplay recently apologized for the bad support over the past weeks. See here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost ... count=2816

Just send them another email and I'm sure you'll hear back soon.

Thanks!! I just called that number and someone immediately answered. Looks like they got their stuff together.

My HDMI inputs are defective but I have no idea how to describe to the guy the problem that the syncstrike and other device I bought show up way too dark

[Hamburglar]

Also, is there a place you recommend I buy the scaler you gave me an eBay link to? Worried that many might be some clone or crappier quality product.

[Fudoh]

no, sorry. Just see which one ships to your home location. You might want to get the version with DUAL VGA output as it's slightly newer in design.