best TV for shmups?

[Edmond Dantes]

So I mentioned in another topic that the Arcade Gears copy of Image Fight has cropping issues on my TV regardless of whether I have it Tated or not. I expect Raiden Project (which I plan to seek out and acquire this or next month) to have a similar issue, so I'm looking for a good replacement TV.

The main requirement is that I need to be able to adjust the horizontal and vertical resolution so that I can make a whole picture fit on my TV, though having a good image in general and being about 20" or more would be nice too. And if I'm going to tate it, I'd like it to have a rotatable screen (I've seen computer monitors that do that--hell, I have one--so I'd be surprised if some flatscreen TVs couldn't handle it as well).

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I expect Raiden Project (which I plan to seek out and acquire this or next month) to have a similar issue, so I'm looking for a good replacement TV.

Why do you expect it? Raiden DX does not have such issues and I doubt Raiden Project has any, especially since all Raidens except for III have the so called screen wobble (play the original Raiden on MAME and see for yourself).
Games infamous for cropping issues on SDTVs are DoDonPachi DOJ and ESPGaluda, but it's nothing game-breaking in those.

[Edmond Dantes]

"Screen wobble" refers to the ability to scroll the screen left and right, amirite? Raiden III doesn't have that?

I expect the cropping issue simply because when you have a problem with one game its always safe to expect it in others--a lesson learned from days when I was an avid PC gamer.

EDIT: Also, apologies for putting this in the wrong section--I realize this should probably have been in "Hardware" but didn't realize that section existed until now.

[Obiwanshinobi]

"Screen wobble" refers to the ability to scroll the screen left and right, amirite? Raiden III doesn't have that?

It's more nuanced than just optional horizontal scrolling, but essentially, yes.
Raiden III has an arcade-perfect PC version.

I expect the cropping issue simply because when you have a problem with one game its always safe to expect it in others--a lesson learned from days when I was an avid PC gamer.

Image Fight runs at a pretty unusual resolution that, ported pixel-perfectly, doesn't quite fit your average SDTV screen, but most console ports I played on my PS2 (and two different TVs) don't suffer from it. Even in DOJ and ESPGaluda it's a cosmetical annoyance at worst.

[Edmond Dantes]

While I'm probably not gonna get Raiden III any time soon, is there anything wrong with the PS2 version?

Admittedly, the problems in Image Fight for PS1 aren't so bad that you can't get used to it, it's just that I'm super triple extra picky.

[Deca]

I used to stress out about slight cropping issues or my image being slightly curved or warped right at the corner of my screen. I get hung up on little stuff easy and it was just driving me crazy, but once I made myself quit worrying about it and just played the games with everything set up as well as it could be I found myself completely forgetting about it. Like, yeah it's nice to have everything line up perfectly, but I think it's nicer to enjoy the game and get down to business learning it.

I guess what I'm saying is try not to sweat it too much. If you have a CRT that's working and just has some minor cosmetic issues that aren't affecting your ability to play the games, you'll get more out of investing that money you'd spend on a new tv/monitor in a new game (or games) you've been wanting.

As for actual recommendations, I love my PVM. It's huge and heavy as hell, and mine has some slight alignment and cropping issues, but I'm pretty sure if I opened it up and messed with the pots I could get it straightened out. The biggest issue I have with mine is discoloration while rotated. I've tried everything to get rid of it and the only thing that (ALMOST completely) clears it up is to position a pair of unshielded speakers at just the right angles off to the sides of the screen. I've asked around with no luck, if anyone has any suggestions on a real/permanent fix I would be more than happy to hear them. I think the thing has been sitting vertical for almost a year now so it's not because I just flipped it recently.

[Edmond Dantes]

It does affect the gameplay a little, since you can go offscreen and be sniped by hidden dangers. Though, I guess if I ever get tired of playing it on the computer in its proper resolution, I could play the PSOne version and consider it an "extra challenge!"

Besides, all the flaws of the PSOne version are excused by the fact that you're buying that collection for X-Multiply anyway.

[Obiwanshinobi]

While I'm probably not gonna get Raiden III any time soon, is there anything wrong with the PS2 version?

I don't think it's particulary bad; just... obsolete. No shmupper should be without a PC and a CRT monitor, and if you have those, Raiden III for the PC is essential. You can play other Type X games cracked on a PC as well.
There's one particulary cool thing you can do with the PC port of Raiden III in co-op which I doubt is possible on the PS2 - give the other player your bombs. Mighty useful if you wanna ease somebody into shmups.
Besides, if you intend to spend a small fortune on console shmups only to play them with crappy composite picture, I can't honestly recommend any PS2 shmup over the PC version of Raiden III.

[grobda]

The biggest issue I have with mine is discoloration while rotated. I've tried everything to get rid of it and the only thing that (ALMOST completely) clears it up is to position a pair of unshielded speakers at just the right angles off to the sides of the screen. I've asked around with no luck, if anyone has any suggestions on a real/permanent fix I would be more than happy to hear them. I think the thing has been sitting vertical for almost a year now so it's not because I just flipped it recently.

you need a degaussing wand;

http://www.dragonext.com/brand-new-dega ... nitor.html

or

just forget about it

[grobda]

aside from arcade monitors, i've heard the best crt's are broadcast monitors; the markets currently flooded with these as tv companies shift to digital widescreen.

TV's generally have ~10% overscan (picture bigger than screen to avoid black bars) and a re a PITA to adjust

[Edmond Dantes]

Honestly, if I could find the service menu code for my Emerson EWC19T3 I wouldn't even think about getting a new TV.

I did Google searches, found some topic about there being a secret button on the remote... but I took the remote apart and didn't see any damn secret button... so either there has to be a code or this device simply doesn't have a service menu.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I've heard really great things about industrial type monitors. Stuff like Sony PVM models and the same type of monitor by NEC. Have a lot of input options, high quality build and come in a nice square box which let's you TATE easily.

[Gus]

People who obsess over TVs and set-ups are idiots. So long as you can get a clear view of the bullets and don't have problems dodging you're good. You don't need shit like tate to play well.

[burgerkingdiamond]

People who obsess over TVs and set-ups are idiots. So long as you can get a clear view of the bullets and don't have problems dodging you're good. You don't need shit like tate to play well.

Some people take it too far. I agree. But you are DEAD WRONG about Tate. It makes a huge difference. It will not damage your TV, so that is no excuse for anyone to use. If you don't do it then you are missing out.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

My TV's colors are still messed from the last time we merely moved it.

[dan76]

I had a problem with overscan on my crt, but you should be able to alter the X and Y axis by entering the service mode. Chempop started this thread in the Hardware section:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38192

Some useful links in there.

[burgerkingdiamond]

My TV's colors are still messed from the last time we merely moved it.

but that's not a permanent problem. It's an inherent part of CRT technology (the whole operating principle relies on magnetic fields). It just needs to be degaussed. Your monitor may have a degaussing function that you can access through a menu, or you may need to do it manually. You can get a special degaussing coil or you can even just do it yourself with a magnet. I've degaussed my TV by hand many times after going back and forth from yoko to tate. It's not big deal. Google it.

[stryc9]

80cm CRT, permanently TATE'd (as in you don't really wanna have to shift it back) + a degaussing wand = Shmup heaven.

[Jeneki]

My TV's colors are still messed from the last time we merely moved it.

Oh yea, some TVs are just not designed well to be rotated, like they skimped on internal bracing to hold everything in place. I have one CRT that's like that, it doesn't matter how long I leave it off before and after rotating, the colors always look wrong when sideways. On the bright side, rotating never damaged it; once I moved it back to regular position it worked fine.

Luckily I have an older CRT that still rotates fine. I've had it for around 12 years and it's still my main shmup screen. (shrug)

[burgerkingdiamond]

My TV's colors are still messed from the last time we merely moved it.

Oh yea, some TVs are just not designed well to be rotated, like they skimped on internal bracing to hold everything in place. I have one CRT that's like that, it doesn't matter how long I leave it off before and after rotating, the colors always look wrong when sideways. On the bright side, rotating never damaged it; once I moved it back to regular position it worked fine.

Luckily I have an older CRT that still rotates fine. I've had it for around 12 years and it's still my main shmup screen. (shrug)

read -------> degaussing -----------> color problem solved.

[Jeneki]

Oops sorry, I should have mentioned that I tried degaussing years ago (which does work on my other TV). That's why I suspect the thing is just cheaply made, I should have known better since it was some brand I had never heard of. I appreciate trying to help though.

[yosai]

Get a nice Nanao MS9. Not only will it work perfectly, your mates will think your a fucking don for having an uncased CRT in your bedroom.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Looking at that sales page for the wand it says I just need to point the thing at my TV. I thought it might entail taking the back off and touching a certain part of the TV but it looks like I was wrong.

[BIL]

I expect Raiden Project (which I plan to seek out and acquire this or next month) to have a similar issue, so I'm looking for a good replacement TV.

As already noted, Raiden Project doesn't have Arcade Gears: IF & XM's cropping problems, nor does Raiden DX. Neither do Konami's Deluxe packs, R-Types, Namco Museum Vols1-Encore or the Capcom Generation discs, on the same system.

I'm not entirely convinced AG:IF+XM's cropping issue is related to inadequate displays. I'd love someone to prove the right display with the right calibration can get a full view of the playfield in Image Fight, but all I've ever heard is theory.

Has anyone ever gotten this disc to display the full playfield in Image Fight? PS or Saturn version.

[Edmond Dantes]

I'm not entirely convinced AG:IF+XM's cropping issue is related to inadequate displays.

Well, since you said R-Types doesn't have cropping issues, and on my TV I have to turn on scrolling to see the whole field, I suspect it is.

(Unless you meant it doesn't have cropping issues because you can turn on scrolling)

[BIL]

(Unless you meant it doesn't have cropping issues because you can turn on scrolling)

No - I consider that nearly as bad as straight cropping, if the game wasn't originally meant to feature it. Worst of all is wobble mode (automated up/down panning) as is optional in Battle Garegga and some Psikyo ports - like you're stood on a boat while playing, bleuurghhh.

On the various 4:3 televisions I've played R-Types on, I can see the whole playfield with the translucent status bar option. None of the other ports I've mentioned had any issues either.

I still could never get a full screen in Image Fight (PS) with those same displays. I've never heard of anyone else getting a full screen display either. It's not that I don't believe there's a solution, so much as I've seen people complain about it for years without one being mentioned.

[Edmond Dantes]

When I play R-Types with the translucent status, I can see almost everything--the very top is where there's missing stuff (I can't see the ceiling for most of stage 2 for example). Also I can move my fighter off-screen, which is a big no-no in my book.

So I like scrolling. I almost think its too bad Image Fight didn't have it.

[Edmond Dantes]

I just got a copy of Raiden Project (Japanese release). And.... both tated and not, I can see the entire playing field.

So I guess the problem really is particular to Image Fight after all.

EDIT: Though.... for some reason the music from Raiden I sounds a little slow. But I haven't compared it to MAME yet and I'm primarily judging from a Youtube soundtrack clip and the PC Engine version.

[BIL]

I just got a copy of Raiden Project (Japanese release). And.... both tated and not, I can see the entire playing field.

So I guess the problem really is particular to Image Fight after all.

I'm pretty certain it is - I don't think the console is actually transmitting the entire playfield, meaning even the most appropriate display will simply give the cropped image. Again, I'd love to be wrong on this.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Worst of all is wobble mode (automated up/down panning) as is optional in Battle Garegga and some Psikyo ports - like you're stood on a boat while playing, bleuurghhh.

Heh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBt3i_jRHEU&#t=1m30s