Street Fighter 3 Third Strike Is a RELIGION!!!!!

[Neon]

Funny enough, Double Impact on the DC looks exactly the way it is supposed to and apparently has less problems with those unblockables and so forth.

I thought the sprites were scaled in that too? Not sure. Been playing only through the VGA box with Dreamcast lately...so everything is scaled and shitty looking!

At any rate, DI has better parrying training I think than the record mode on 3S...I use it to practice parrying.

[llabnip]

Aye, no good reason to play the Dreamcast version. even if there isn't input lag the graphics are still worse.

The DC version with the resolution fixed (L+Start at the logo) looks pretty sweet to me. Anyway, it's a fine port and I've seen no reason to upgrade it.

Well, *some* of the sounds are perfect. The voices sound spot-on to me. The announcer, hits, character select music, and between fights music (unless you lose and have to continue, in which case it's near perfect...I assume due to memory limitations) are all noticeably better on CPSII.

I just gave it a try and compared same sound-setup (quality stereo speakers hooked to my TV) of Saturn SFZ3 and MAME (PC well equipped to run CPS2 games). Both were admirable sounding - it was like splitting hairs between the two though there were minor differences. Maybe I'll take the spectrum analyzer home from work this weekend and check the sound quality quantitatively but I'm not losing sleep over the minor differences.

As for load times - the Saturn rev from the time you get the "you win" to the time the next fighter starts with "face and strike" is 20.4 seconds. For the arcade rev, it's 16.2 over that same span. The difference is about 4 seconds - it was hardly noticable to me as you progress through the victory and stage progress screens (I pressed the punch button rapidly to bypass the stage progress, etc. as fast as possible for both revs). You can reduce that difference to almost nothing if you turn the shortcut on. Is it arcade perfect? No. But it's close enough that most wouldn't even notice the difference given the amount of time you actually spend fighting versus transitioning from one fight to the next. So it comes down to the extras that make it better than arcade perfect for me. Quoting facts on things that hardly make a difference doesn't convince me that the arcade rev is superior - Saturn SFZ3 gameplay is spot on, sound quality is excellent and the load times are a minor drop down (hey, it's CD - that's not entirely unexpected and quite tolerable).

It's possible you're Saturn laser might not be tracking right. That might account for longer load times and poor quality audio. I, too, have put in close to a hundred hours on SFZ3 and the things you find as flaws, I find complete non-issues. Throw in the extras and it's no contest for me - the Saturn port is tops and is the version to own. It's cool if you're happy with your PCB (or emulated version). To each, their own.

[Neon]

As for load times - the Saturn rev from the time you get the "you win" to the time the next fighter starts with "face and strike" is 20.4 seconds. For the arcade rev, it's 16.2 over that same span. The difference is about 4 seconds - it was hardly noticable to me as you progress through the victory and stage progress screens (I pressed the punch button rapidly to bypass the stage progress, etc. as fast as possible for both revs). You can reduce that difference to almost nothing if you turn the shortcut on.

But you can skip it entirely in the arcade/mame version...the Saturn version's loading during most of that time.

The sound quality differences are far from hair-splitting, especially during the timeframe we're talking about where the announcer is severely downsampled and the music is out of tune on the Saturn version. I'll record an example from each if someone is willing to make it available for download (not sure of the proper terminology). Just because this is getting ridiculous. The sound is more or less ruined in the port, from the crash of a body hitting the floor to the smack of a fist in the face. The announcer was already a bit poor on CPSII, now that's been taken down past telephone quality I'd say.

No need to be doing this out of concern for the Saturn's reputation, if that's what all this denial is about...it's still the best port and it's still a good console. Most Saturn arcade ports have downsampled sound effects...I'll go through my...argh, I don't want to call it a collection...but I'll list a few which I have personal experience with both versions only so I won't list VF2, Sega Rally etc. though I highly suspect them...

Sengoku Blade (I think explosions differences, this one's very minour)
Street Fighter Zero 3
Strikers 1945 II
Strikers 1 mehbe, haven't played in awhile
Dodonpachi
Donpachi
Thunderforce Gold Pack 2
Metal Slug
In the Hunt
Street Fighter Collection
Hyper Duel (end of level music as I recall...but I haven't played this in a long time)
Samurai Shodown 3+4

You'll also notice a lot of sound effects just plain missing, like the one boss's laser cannon in DDP, or the 'dododododo-DODONPATCH' announcement...or the 2nd level boss' explosion in Donpachi...or the waterfall in Metal Slug...etc. etc.

As the saying goes, fuck consoles, I play games. I've had many hours of enjoyment with my Saturn (currently going for a decent Garegga score in fact) but I shouldn't let that get in the way of my rationality...

[llabnip]

But you can skip it entirely in the arcade/mame version...the Saturn version's loading during most of that time.

How? Using the same settings and pressing the punch button to speedup the 'tween stage displays I get the times I mentioned above. I couldn't make the arcade rev go any faster. The Saturn port did have a shortcut option that I don't know if it exists in the arcade rev (I'm guessing it must). If not, the Saturn port can actually transition stages faster.

The sound is more or less ruined in the port

And this is where we'll have to part ways since I don't agree with this statement in any way. I know you sold your copy of SFZ3 to someone that appreciates it which is a good thing. The game is one of the true gems of the Saturn - it was the last version of SFZ3 to be released (out of Arcade, PSX, DC, Saturn) and the developers put in those little extras and fixes that push it above any version that exists. If you love SFZ3, it doesn't get any better than the Saturn port (I own the 3 major ports).

As the saying goes, fuck consoles, I play games.

Well, I happen to love consoles. I also love games - but mostly I love playing console games. I like to play them on consoles that I have collectted over the years. That's part of the enjoyment of the hobby for me. As the saying goes, to each, their own.

[CMoon]

Neon> Without breaking sound analysis into this or anything, the one point I'd make is that for most people (including me) the sound is absolutely fine on the Saturn port--saying it is ruined is a bit extreme (though maybe it is ruined for you).

I can think of a few examples (PSX Strider comes to mind) where I just know the game so intimately that the slight changes in the port bother me, but there has to be a point where we recognize that we ARE splitting hairs, and those differences which may mean so much to us don't really matter to anyone else.

And what is this with PSX cps2 games? There is no such thing as a cps2 port for the psx that comes anywhere close to a cps2 port for the saturn. Period.

[Elixir]

Aye, no good reason to play the Dreamcast version. even if there isn't input lag the graphics are still worse.

The DC version with the resolution fixed (L+Start at the logo) looks pretty sweet to me. Anyway, it's a fine port and I've seen no reason to upgrade it.

Why are people still arguing about this? It's common sense, the dreamcast version is pure rubbish. Stop wasting people's time by telling them that the dreamcast version isn't something worth "upgrading" because third strike was the reason I bought an xbox. There is no argument here, the dreamcast version won't even give you practice.

[CMoon]

Why are people still arguing about this? It's common sense, the dreamcast version is pure rubbish. Stop wasting people's time by telling them that the dreamcast version isn't something worth "upgrading" because third strike was the reason I bought an xbox. There is no argument here, the dreamcast version won't even give you practice.

*sighs*

Isn't there a difference between 'rubbish' and 'parrying is more difficult', 'urien's unblockables have been removed', 'chun li is actually slightly toned down from being uber-top-tier'??? I guess I'll not bother arguing that the saturn port of DDP is actually playable and fun.

For the non-technical, non-shoryuken.com member, the DC version of TS plays great, looks great (well as good as the other ports) and sounds great.

On virtually every level except apparently your perspective, TS is an admirable port. It is enough to make me question whether you've actually played the DC port.

[llabnip]

[re:Third Strike] It's common sense, the dreamcast version is pure rubbish.

I guess I better stop enjoying it, then and just toss it in the trash where it belongs!... nah, I'll keep playing and having fun with it. The port is fine - it plays great and is highly enjoyable for me. Delcaring it as 'rubbish' doesn't change my perception of this high quality game.

[Neon]

And what is this with PSX cps2 games? There is no such thing as a cps2 port for the psx that comes anywhere close to a cps2 port for the saturn. Period.

Poppycock . Like I pointed out, PSX SFA2 does come close and in fact surpasses the Saturn version in some respects. It has *slightly* worse graphics (a few background frames) but sound that is or is close to arcade perfect.

So it really comes down to whether you prefer good sound or good graphics. Except in an extreme case I'd take sound. The fact that you can reduce the load times with the PS2 seals the deal for me.

Even SFA3 is better on the PSX soundwise

Hmm, what else. SFA1 can't be that different between the two. The non-ramcart darkstalkers is probably about the same. Super puzzle fighter 2, super streetfighter 2/ssf2t.

How? Using the same settings and pressing the punch button to speedup the 'tween stage displays I get the times I mentioned above. I couldn't make the arcade rev go any faster.

You must not be doing it right - I can transfer between stages in like 3 seconds max (this is a rough estimate as I'm at work right now). Just rapidly tap the punch button between stages. Again, I can provide an example if you like, or check out the Akuma replay on MARP (I think).

edit: Just tried it...from the 'you win' screen, to the opening of the next fight, it should take 6 seconds, being generous. I think perhaps you assumed you could only skip past the first bit, like with the Saturn port.

[azmun]

On virtually every level except apparently your perspective, TS is an admirable port. It is enough to make me question whether you've actually played the DC port.

Add to that, there is no arcade perfect port of 3s. The differences are really marginal (detectable only by those experts who play the game on a high enough level for it to matter) to warrant me from "upgrading" to the other versions (released few years after). Also, I hear the DC is the closest to the speed of the arcade.

[Elixir]

Why are people still arguing about this? It's common sense, the dreamcast version is pure rubbish. Stop wasting people's time by telling them that the dreamcast version isn't something worth "upgrading" because third strike was the reason I bought an xbox. There is no argument here, the dreamcast version won't even give you practice.

*sighs*

Isn't there a difference between 'rubbish' and 'parrying is more difficult', 'urien's unblockables have been removed', 'chun li is actually slightly toned down from being uber-top-tier'??? I guess I'll not bother arguing that the saturn port of DDP is actually playable and fun.

What you're meant to say is "Is there a difference between an arcade perfect version of the game, or a completely different version of the game that doesn't feel like the original at ll?" and the answer, is yes.

It's known that the dreamcast uses a "Version 2: of the game. It's different, it feels different, characters move slower, it's not designed for the controller, etc.

For the non-technical, non-shoryuken.com member, the DC version of TS plays great, looks great (well as good as the other ports) and sounds great.

Until you realize that the xbox version provides a deeper colour, deeper feel of the original dreamcast version.

On virtually every level except apparently your perspective, TS is an admirable port. It is enough to make me question whether you've actually played the DC port.

Great observation you have there. Yes, let's talk about a game I've never played on the said console. Let's go around claiming the differences as if they aren't already obvious internet-wide. Sorry, but I own the xbox and dreamcast versions. Comparing them and claiming that the dreamcast version is about as useless of an argument as it would be to try and compare the differences between the horribly-converted PS2 MvC2 and it's dreamcast version.

Some text from some random user, I can't be bothered pressing backspace

No, the dreamcast version isn't anything like the arcade version. "Input-lag" means that it's slower - making parrying difficult, even if it isn't essential.

[Neon]

llabnip - obviously the only way to settle this is through violence.

Do you have broadband? We could have a match via mame32k

[D]

ts for dc has one big control issue.
buttons Z & C don't work when I use my Total Control and play with my saturn pads.

This is the only fighting game on the DC that has this issue

WHY CAPCOM?

So I find myself playing DI more often.
Zero3 has those nice fight two other fighters at the same time options.

[BrianC]

ts for dc has one big control issue.
buttons Z & C don't work when I use my Total Control and play with my saturn pads.

This is the only fighting game on the DC that has this issue

WHY CAPCOM?

So I find myself playing DI more often.
Zero3 has those nice fight two other fighters at the same time options.

Speaking of Zero 3, what are your opinions of the rebalancing in the Upper versions (DC, Arcade, and GBA)? The less damage fireballs seem to be a bit odd.

[Elixir]

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthr ... ifferences

Here you go. My point == proven.

[Neon]

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthr ... ifferences

Here you go. My point == proven.

How dare you insult the honor of the Dreamcast!

HEATHEN

THERE AREN'T ANY DIFFERENCES

Hmm, odd that we're finally agreeing on something

Speaking of Zero 3, what are your opinions of the rebalancing in the Upper versions (DC, Arcade, and GBA)? The less damage fireballs seem to be a bit odd.

The re-balancing broke the game even further. Here's the ranking of Zero 3 ports, best to worst:

EDIT: Since it's 5:00 AM and I have nothing better to do I'll write up a detailed comparison...wish me luck at staying awake for work tomorrow...

CPSII - Best, though I'm in the minority on this. This will be the basis for comparison to the rest...

A note about it, it features most of the modes of the homeports, but they have to be unlocked over time (which isn't a problem anymore, the game is over 5 years old, they're unlocked already ) dramatic battle, no-ism, etc. etc. etc. are all there, check a trivia site for how to unlock them. Or I can look it up and post it here sometime if you're that worthless. As stated the emulation features noticeable input lag.

Saturn - music fadeout too early, sounds downsampled, reasonable but still present loadtimes. Features better graphics than the arcade and a few tasty extras, though. None of which I actually make use of so I can't describe them in detail added a few characters, changed dramatic battle from the arcade version, etc. I sold it, then bought it back, it's worth having I think. Just for the graphics whore in ya if nothing else. Friends can use the added SF2 characters so it's nice for vs. play. Based on the bugfixed version of the PCB so none of the bugs with Karin and Xism

Playstation - longass loads, I haven't picked up a japanese copy yet so I can't say how far the PS2 reduces them (enable an option in its menu to do this). Missing frames, and not just in the background...look at Karin walking for example. Sound is close to perfect, quality wise. Sadly they fucked up the order of the announcements (Leeet's party! triumph or die! instead of Let's party/go for broke, etc.) which I'm willing to admit is very minour, at the same time it's unsettling after having hundreds of hours in the arcade version where they're the other way around. but then I'm a picky bastard. A bunch of modes have to be unlocked which is bullshit, but then arcade mode is all that matters anyways.

Dreamcast - Not even Zero 3 really. It's the encrappified 'upper' version with scaled up graphics, even less in the way of balance, and laggy control. Supposedly this and the PSX version are based on earlier revisions of the game which have some bugs involving Karin, I haven't tested it myself. Loads the quickest out of any of the homeports and has good although not perfect sound quality (just sounds odd to me somehow).

PSP - due for release in September last time I checked. It's a port of upper which screws it from the start. Then it's on PSP so you'll have to play it on those controls...bwahaha. Probably will look funny on that screen too. Loadtimes? Likely, says the inner pessimist.

GBA - lol. GBA dpad and having to combine buttons for medium level hits makes the control very iffy. It's also based on upper. It also has very very badly done midi renditions of the music. 3 strikes already. Over-enthusiastic announcer which is part of this game's greatness is MIA. Pass.

[llabnip]

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthr ... ifferences

Here you go. My point == proven.

Several of the people on that thread don't see a big difference. I'm not sure how that proves your point. I, too, can point to the same thread and claim the same thing. And the double == is a compare, not an assignment. In that case I think your statement evaluates to false

Anyway, there are clearly differences but not enough to bother many of us.

[llabnip]

llabnip - obviously the only way to settle this is through violence.

Do you have broadband? We could have a match via mame32k

Heh! I would be a wipeout so I'll just conceed I'm terrible at fighters even though I love them. I mean, really, really bad. I don't know why I have amassed such a big collection of them - Capcom, SNK, one-offs. Pretty much everything you can obtain for the Saturn/Dreamcast/PS. 2D Fighters are my 2nd most loved genere... It goes:

1. scrolling shooters
2. 2D fighters (with the occasional 3D like Virtua Fighter 2/4EV and even a bit of Tekken 3 when I'm feeling goofy)
3. Puzzle games (Puyo Puyo, Panel de Pon, Puzzle Star Sweep and Magical Drop III are some of my favs)
4. RPGs (mostly of the 2D overhead variety)

The only games I'm even half good at are puzzle games... not sure why they are #3.

[Elixir]

Oh you have seriously got to be kidding, if you think you have an argument and possess the power to argue with me. It's common sense that the dreamcast version is inferior in almost all cases.

- Unblockables removed.
- Input lag.
- Delayed parrying.
- Subtle graphics.
- Lack of online abilities.
- Not designed for dreamcast controller; no alternatives released.

I'm beginning to question whether you've even bothered playing the arcade or xbox versions. Or even more specifically, the PS2 version. It doesn't really matter which you play, as long as it isn't the dreamcast version.

Come to think of it, they even released a disc, containing Double Impact and the original Street Fighter 3, to make up for the obvious errors in the dreamcast version. Why do you think it's already ported to xbox and PS2?

I really which gamefaqs had a history of their out-of-date messages. There was this one where some loser attempted to support the dreamcast by saying how superior it was based on the controllers and that the xbox S controller isn't designed for fighting games. About 8 pages long of people telling how wrong he was.

[llabnip]

- Unblockables removed.

Amen.

- Input lag.

I haven't seen it. I've played the DC and PS2 version, not the XBOX version.

- Delayed parrying.

Agreed.

- Subtle graphics.

Didn't notice. Didn't care. The DC version looks as good as any 2D figther I own and it's well beyond acceptable.

- Lack of online abilities.

Biggest no-care yet. I don't have a fast enough connection, but in any event, I want my games playable offline. Most of my collection comes pre-online and those games have held up fine, thanks. I couldn't care less about online play.

- Not designed for dreamcast controller; no alternatives released.

Use a 6 button pad. CMoon found a DC->Saturn converter and stick that both work fine for DC third strike (I've used them, so they exist and work great). Some of the early 6 button controllers won't work right but many will.

I have no doubt that the PS2 and XBOX versions are better. They are not better enough for the things I care about to bother to update. The DC version looks fine, plays fine and is highly enjoyable for me.

[CMoon]

For the non-technical, non-shoryuken.com member, the DC version of TS plays great, looks great (well as good as the other ports) and sounds great.

On virtually every level except apparently your perspective, TS is an admirable port. It is enough to make me question whether you've actually played the DC port.

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthr ... ifferences

Here you go. My point == proven.

Hahahahaha! It is like you don't read anything I say! First off, the linked thread (of course, from Shoryuken.com) is almost identical to this one. Somebody gets on and says the game is rubbish, then everyone else points out that while it has a few minor issues, it is still a fun, highly playable game.

I'm sure I've put in over 100 hours on the DC version of TS (long before the new ports came out) and can say with all certainty that the gameplay was deep and fun. I had no difficulty parrying, and with a good controller (like the ps2 or xbox controllers are good for playing street fighter!!!) I did just about as many fancy things as one could expect from a moderately skilled player such as myself.

I am happy to concede that if one was purchasing TS new, right now, not only would it be cheaper and easier to get the ps2/x-box ports, it would be a wiser decision, but this does not de facto make the DC version a bad port. And the truth is, I get really tired of this sort of extremism (if something is not the very best, it is the worst.)

[benstylus]

- Not designed for dreamcast controller; no alternatives released.

[Elixir]

And what if you don't want to use sticks? At least capcom decided to release saturn-style controllers for their xbox version which you could buy at the time with the game for a cheaper overall price.

[CMoon]

And what if you don't want to use sticks? At least capcom decided to release saturn-style controllers for their xbox version which you could buy at the time with the game for a cheaper overall price.

Please see llabnip's post. There are converters that let you use saturn pads on the DC that DO WORK on TS. As mentioned above, not all makes work, so you have to be wary. Anyway, didn't those pads that came out for the sf anniversary pack blow? (well that's what I was told anyway.)

[Elixir]

Of course not. Anything that relates to the words "saturn" and "controller" in the same sentence is an instant win.

As much as you like to deny it, the game feels different on the dreamcast and can't be played for practice alone, yet seriously, for tourney play.

As for the official arcade sticks for dreamcast - rubbish. Even Robert Page can't get past 1-1 of Ikaruga with one of those things. I messed with one in 2000 at a display, and it felt like the back of a turtle's shell.

Getting a saturn-styled controller for the dreamcast would be only worthy of Capcom vs. SNK 2, and Marvel vs. Capcom 2, as they are arcade perfect on the dreamcast. As for 3rd Strike, it's the odd one out of the lot that isn't arcade perfect.

Seriously, the differences are huge. It's like playing Ikaruga constantly on slow mode, compared to normal mode. Or should I say, dreamcast's the "slow" one and xbox's the faster(original; true) one.

Go play the xbox version now. Off you go, shoo.

[SheSaidDutch]

I've only played the DC port so I cant really comment onthe input lag and besides I suck at parrying and I was playing onthe DC's default pad.

[benstylus]

As for the official arcade sticks for dreamcast - rubbish. Even Robert Page can't get past 1-1 of Ikaruga with one of those things

To each his own - the green joystick is the only way I play arcade ports on the DC. The stock controller just doesn't work nearly as well.

[Icarus]

The stock DC controller is far too chunky to be used for fighting games. In fact, it's too chunky to be used for anything, besides as a doorstop or a paperweight, or to hold the VMU while you use a different kind of controller.

Arcade sticks are cool, but it's been a long time since I've used a stick for a game, so I tend to use a convertor and connect a pad - in the DC's case, I use a PS2-DC convertor and connect up a black Saturnlike pad. I find pads more responsive to use, and the PS2 Saturnlike pad works great, totally responsive.

And regarding SF3TS, I like it, but I prefer SFA2 Dash and SFA3 for my Street Fighter kicks. Very fast, very aggressive (especially when two Custom Combo experts go head-to-head ^_^).

[Dandy J]

You can use a DC pad for fighting games, it just depends how much you like it. Some people get used to certain pads, some don't.

Soo Mighty was eliminated from mvc2 at evo this year by a DC pad player.

[EOJ]

I had this game on the JP DC years ago and thought it was awful compared to the Arcade version which I played a lot at local arcades and LOVED to pieces. I recently got the Xbox version and it's perfect, in fact I like it even better than the arcade version.