Ketsui X-mode vs. Ketsui Arcade

[burgerkingdiamond]

I'm just wondering what are the differences between the two versions. I've played both, but managed to figure out X-mode's scoring almost immediately and started getting lot's of nice 5 chips. I never managed to figure out Arcade mode, and as a result have barely played it.

[StarCreator]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5123

Arcade is the far less convoluted of the two systems, IMO. They're both kinda fun though.

[Deca]

I personally found x-mode to be way more enjoyable. Normal Ketsui scoring is a good/neat/unique system but results in a great deal of frustration for me.

[burgerkingdiamond]

arcade is simpler? I find X-mode really easy to pick up. From my experience, you just lock on to the ships with the yellow targets on them and blow them up when you're as close as possible. If you're close enough you'll get either 4 or 5 chips. Then you just switch to shot and try to blow up as much other shit as possible and keep the chain going. Everything will give the same chip # of what you got from the lock shot on the target ships...

I'm pretty bad at explaining these things, but in my mind that's what X-mode is about.

[dunpeal2064]

From what I remember in x mode, the chip number = number of options. So, once you have 4, you will always get 4 chips from targetted enemies. Point blanking ups it to 5.

In arcade, you get a higher chip the closer you are, and then you chain that into other enemies. Thats a bare bones explanation, arcade mode has a lot of scoring tricks

[StarCreator]

Yeah, if you take your description for X-Mode and apply it to every enemy in the game, you can pretty much play Arcade mode exactly like that - chips in Arcade are, AFAIK, entirely proximity-based so you can get 5 chips from anything. Your description for X-Mode is lacking a bunch of other shit it has that vanilla Ketsui doesn't, like the suicide bullets and cancelling them with your focused (not locked) shot, etc...

[dunpeal2064]

There are suicide bullets in x mode? Or were you referring to the loop?

Im no pro at ketsui at all, and I know that there are a lot of scoring tricks I dont get yet (like cashing in your chips on larger enemies, locking on to a big dude and killing small dudes while locked on, killing a dude with shot bullets while in lock on mode, etc)

I was just mentioning the basics

[StarCreator]

There are suicide bullets in x mode? Or were you referring to the loop?

Yes. There's at least 45 gamerscore dedicated to making them appear.

[dunpeal2064]

Wow, I don't think I've managed to make any appear. I'll have to dig into the Strat section and figure this out.

Aren't there also suicide bullets and sealing in the arcade loop too? I've heard the game is very different on the loop

[man9child]

There are regular suicide bullets in X-Mode that you can cancel with your laser, and if you do really well, you trigger the blue suicide bullets that you would normally see in the loop. I've only done it a few times, and it freaked me the hell out.

Another difference in X-mode is that your multiplier stays for much longer so long as you hold down fire.

I like X-Mode a lot, but I greatly prefer Arcade. I actually haven't touched X-Mode in a long time. X-Mode feels noticeably easier to me because of all the bullet canceling.

[stryc9]

I personally found x-mode to be way more enjoyable. Normal Ketsui scoring is a good/neat/unique system but results in a great deal of frustration for me.

It's absolutely the same way with me, and I'm starting to feel like a bit of a pussy for not pushing further with Arcade mode now

[burgerkingdiamond]

X-mode may be easier than Arcade, but I'm still having trouble. I think I've made it to the 4th boss a couple of times but he raped me.

are there 5 levels?

Has anyone here cleared X-mode, but been unable to clear arcade? (I'm talking 1st loop only. Anything to do with 2nd loop in any game is over my head).

[man9child]

Yeah. I've cleared X-mode with both ships on a credit, in arcade I've gotten about halfway down with the stage 5 boss with Tiger Schwart. Play counter says I've played maybe 4x as many credits on arcade mode, too.

The biggest difference for me was the amount of bullet canceling objects in the second half of stage 5, after the descent. Each one is almost like a little smart bomb, so if you can hold out just long enough to destroy one and park yourself under the next, you can bypass some nasty patterns.

I started with arcade, switched to x, and then went back to arcade. I had to unlearn some things like that from X-mode because you couldn't get away with it in arcade.

X-mode is, by far, my favorite of the console-only arrange modes in a Cave game.

[Sapz]

I cleared X-Mode before I cleared Arcade, but only by a day or two IIRC. I think Arcade is slightly harder for the first loop, but it's not really consistent - it's more like some sections are the same (or harder) in X-Mode, while others are significantly easier due to the bullet cancel enemies. I think if you can clear X-Mode, you should be able to clear Arcade fairly soon afterwards, especially if you learn some proper strategies for the late Stage 5 parts.

[stryc9]

I cleared X-Mode before I cleared Arcade, but only by a day or two IIRC. I think Arcade is slightly harder for the first loop, but it's not really consistent - it's more like some sections are the same (or harder) in X-Mode, while others are significantly easier due to the bullet cancel enemies. I think if you can clear X-Mode, you should be able to clear Arcade fairly soon afterwards, especially if you learn some proper strategies for the late Stage 5 parts.

You honestly think some parts are the same or harder in X mode?
I found the sections in the leadup to the bosses on every level more difficult in Arcade cos you don't have the pink bullet-cancel enemies to chain a path to safety with.
The bulletstorm can get absolutely out of control thru these bits in Arcade

[Sapz]

Well, the parts near the ends of stages are all more hectic in Arcade for sure, but those aside I didn't think it was that much of a difficulty jump. Bosses and midbosses are pretty much the same difficulty (or even a little tougher in the case of the 4th midboss - the addition of the pink suicide bullets makes unfocused sweeps harder than usual), and these are a pretty sizable portion of the game; there are also things like the large brown ships which are some of the hardest enemies in either mode, and bullet cancel in both, or the chopper spam near the end of the 5th stages which IIRC doesn't have any cancels of much use in X-Mode. Aside from the few in the end sections, most of the bullet cancels seemed to be placed in sections that were relatively straightforward, and so used more as a scoring mechanism rather than something for survival.

Of course, I wouldn't disagree that the stages were easier with the cancels, but the change from X-Mode to Arcade mode really didn't seem like a huge thing so much as just turning it up a notch or two. IMO, if you can 1cc X-Mode, you should have a good shot at Arcade too.

[stryc9]

Yeah, as always, it's just about me putting in more time to the mode that most gives me trouble.
Patterns and cancels aside, it's the scoring that gets me killed in Arcade anyway

[burgerkingdiamond]

Just made it level 5 for the first time on X-mode. Got sprayed in the face with bullet diarrhea.

[emphatic]

Just made it level 5 for the first time on X-mode. Got sprayed in the face with bullet diarrhea.

Welcome to the lovely hardships of stage 5! I've played Ketsui countless of times (PCB) and got the X-Mode clear about 1 or 2 weeks in by just playing it like I would a PCB. No practice mode. I then continued working on the arcade mode 1CC. That took quite a bit longer than 2 weeks, even with all my previous training. The port is a little bit harder IMHO, as it's faster than the PCB. I would rather play it in MAME than on the 360 for that reason, but stereo soundtrack in the port is awesome.

[man9child]

Stage 5 is a wall. It's so neatly segmented, though, that you always feel like you're making progress. The end of the descent and right before the boss with all the A and B copters is just brutal, though.

I cleared X-mode sometime in November/December of last year. I still haven't cleared arcade mode. Granted, I took a long break in between, and am only just now starting to get back to where I was.

I have never played the pcb, but I was actually surprised that the speed difference between mame and the port was that noticeable. You really get a sense of it when you're doing the empty lock shot to get the extra five chips. The timing window seems larger on mame than on the port because of the speed. That's just something that you do entirely by feel so it's easy to notice the difference.

[Cuilan]

I don't see much of a point in playing arcade mode when there's X-mode available. X-mode is way more fun to play for score, I think. Besides, I don't think I'm masochistic enough to enjoy arcade mode anyway.

[BPzeBanshee]

I don't see much of a point in playing arcade mode when there's X-mode available. X-mode is way more fun to play for score, I think. Besides, I don't think I'm masochistic enough to enjoy arcade mode anyway.

Was it you or Apple Arcade who whinged some months ago about Ketsui being too much like Dodonpachi and not having lolis?

[Elixir]

It was apple [affiliate link] arcade [affiliate link]. He whinged over it in a "review" which was dumped from the review section into Shmups Chat and ridiculed. He hasn't posted since.

I wish x-mode had a second loop, seriously, that's my only complaint. Otherwise it's a great arrange mode. If you have the game, check out MrMonkeyMan's replay, it's #1 on the leaderboards.

[chempop]

I haven't played the port in ages but after reading this I decided to give it another go. It's one of the few cave ports I've yet to 1-All so I should make that happen - but damn those stage-5 clones!

I can get to stage-5 almost every time in X-mode, but have only made it there in Arcade mode a small handful of times. There is a huge difficulty jump for me between modes.

As for my overall appreciation of the game - I have very mixed feelings. Great mechanics and soundtrack, so-so art style, and wobbling patterns that either imprss me or make me pull my hair out (I can't decide).

Perhaps a top ten cave game for me... yeah, I said it.

[BPzeBanshee]

It was apple [affiliate link] arcade [affiliate link]. He whinged over it in a "review" which was dumped from the review section into Shmups Chat and ridiculed. He hasn't posted since.

Ah, of course! Yeah, that was damn hilarious. I do miss his Food Thread in Off-Topic though.