The future of Cave

[BulletMagnet]

shmups always land on the dead/second place console. It's a weird tradition. MD, PC Engine, Saturn, Dreamcast, 360. It doesn't make a lick of sense but there you are

Methinks the PS2 was a notable exception (and possibly the NES).

[kernow]

Now all you need is a nail clipper and a shower

I think Kernow likes me Ok, I'll clean up just for you... but where are you taking me?

The barber and dentist

[GaijinPunch]

shmups always land on the dead/second place console. It's a weird tradition. MD, PC Engine, Saturn, Dreamcast, 360. It doesn't make a lick of sense but there you are

Methinks the PS2 was a notable exception (and possibly the NES).

PC-Engine and Saturn were both commercial successes in the region where most (f not all) the shooters were published. What's the DC count of Naomi to non-Naomi? These should almost not be counted.

[moozooh]

Being a commercial success doesn't prevent a console from being an underdog, does it?

[GaijinPunch]

Being a commercial success doesn't prevent a console from being an underdog, does it?

Definitely not, but that wasn't the word used here.

[moozooh]

Well, "second place" seems to qualify in either case.

[evil_ash_xero]

Anyone else think that CAVE might be fading out?

I don't think they've released a really impressive shmup, since about 2007 or 2008(I'm counting DS MBL as a "new" game).

And Akai Katana is good, not great, and heck, they had to work on it, to make it better than the arcade release. Why in the world was it rushed to begin with?? Are they THAT busy?

I don't know what's going on with them. Their games are getting too easy, and they're losing their kick. Now, they could blow my mind, with their next game, but right now...things seem on the decline.

Of course, I've thought this, since after the release of DS. Just thought I'd toss it out there. I'm sure I'll get attacked for not thinking DFK was superb. But as a follow up to Futari 1.5...well, it's pretty damn weak. It's also a weak sequel to DOJ(obviously).

And if anyone brings up DS II.....well, I'll just not pay attention to that argument, due to the poster's insanity.

[SuperPang]

You sure you've played DS2 or DFKBL enough? Both are fantastic.

[AntiFritz]

You sure you've played DS2 or DFKBL enough? Both are fantastic.

And so it begins.

[SuperPang]

Horses for courses I guess. Cave's next STG could do with a bit more survival difficulty but their scoring ideas are more innovative than ever. I don't think the company are "fading out" at all but they have stated that arcade development is increasingly hard to make money from.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Blame me, noobs and everybody else who sucks at shmups It seems that as shmups are becoming popular more ppl without the required skill wants to play them.

I suppose widescreen is really screwing things up for us vert lovers. Maybe if we all pretended we all played verts on TATEable LCD widescreens, Cave might make a HD vert shmup in widescreen.

I wonder what the chances are of cave making something like Judgement Silversword on the vita. Ive never played a TATE handheld game, is it comfortable to play JS on the wonderswan?

[dan76]

DFK Black Label and Akai Katana are two of my favourite Cave games, and they were both released last year - and who doesn't want to play Mushihimesama 1.5?

Seems pretty strong to me, I just hope they continue on as they have been.

[Skykid]

Anyone else think that CAVE might be fading out?

I don't think they've released a really impressive shmup, since about 2007 or 2008(I'm counting DS MBL as a "new" game).

And Akai Katana is good, not great, and heck, they had to work on it, to make it better than the arcade release. Why in the world was it rushed to begin with?? Are they THAT busy?

I don't know what's going on with them. Their games are getting too easy, and they're losing their kick. Now, they could blow my mind, with their next game, but right now...things seem on the decline.

Of course, I've thought this, since after the release of DS. Just thought I'd toss it out there. I'm sure I'll get attacked for not thinking DFK was superb. But as a follow up to Futari 1.5...well, it's pretty damn weak. It's also a weak sequel to DOJ(obviously).

And if anyone brings up DS II.....well, I'll just not pay attention to that argument, due to the poster's insanity.

I don't think we're noticing an obvious decline, but I'd wager there's a lot of shifting happening in the offices in terms of resources and future planning. We've been used to a steady stream of arcade announcements for years, so it's not surprising to feel apprehensive when there's a pregnant pause.

I'm sure it'll be business as usual soon enough. In what form though, who knows.

[Ghegs]

Ive never played a TATE handheld game, is it comfortable to play JS on the wonderswan?

Not especially, but that's in large part thanks to the weird d-pad on the system and how you need five external lights pointing at the thing if you want to see anything. Take out the problems with the system and it's quite alright. Playing PSP's Star Soldier wasn't too horrible either, though that one had some awkward button placement issues.

[Gus]

Anyone else think that CAVE might be fading out?

I don't think they've released a really impressive shmup, since about 2007 or 2008(I'm counting DS MBL as a "new" game).

And Akai Katana is good, not great, and heck, they had to work on it, to make it better than the arcade release. Why in the world was it rushed to begin with?? Are they THAT busy?

I don't know what's going on with them. Their games are getting too easy, and they're losing their kick. Now, they could blow my mind, with their next game, but right now...things seem on the decline.

Of course, I've thought this, since after the release of DS. Just thought I'd toss it out there. I'm sure I'll get attacked for not thinking DFK was superb. But as a follow up to Futari 1.5...well, it's pretty damn weak. It's also a weak sequel to DOJ(obviously).

And if anyone brings up DS II.....well, I'll just not pay attention to that argument, due to the poster's insanity.

I don't think someone who doesn't post any scores has much room to call their games "too easy" or even speak on the overall quality of them.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

And Akai Katana is good, not great, and heck, they had to work on it, to make it better than the arcade release. Why in the world was it rushed to begin with?? Are they THAT busy?

It doesn't seem any more rushed than some of their other original release versions to me. Have you played Futari? Not 1.5 or BL, I mean the original board. Akai Katana needed a second mode to be as full as most Caves games but the original doesn't seem particularly rushed to me. Someone in Japan cried that it wasn't hard enough and it started a tidal wave of impressions. People were saying it sucked before they had even played it. It is a little bit too easy but still took a lot of practice for the 1CC and it's pretty well liked by lots of people. They can't all be Ketsui-hard.

[Skykid]

Anyone else think that CAVE might be fading out?

I don't think they've released a really impressive shmup, since about 2007 or 2008(I'm counting DS MBL as a "new" game).

And Akai Katana is good, not great, and heck, they had to work on it, to make it better than the arcade release. Why in the world was it rushed to begin with?? Are they THAT busy?

I don't know what's going on with them. Their games are getting too easy, and they're losing their kick. Now, they could blow my mind, with their next game, but right now...things seem on the decline.

Of course, I've thought this, since after the release of DS. Just thought I'd toss it out there. I'm sure I'll get attacked for not thinking DFK was superb. But as a follow up to Futari 1.5...well, it's pretty damn weak. It's also a weak sequel to DOJ(obviously).

And if anyone brings up DS II.....well, I'll just not pay attention to that argument, due to the poster's insanity.

I don't think someone who doesn't post any scores has much room to call their games "too easy" or even speak on the overall quality of them.

Oh give it a rest Gus, Christ. You've been hanging around like a black cloud of negativity ever since you got here, and this forum really doesn't need any more of those.
Some other dipshit tried to pull that crap on me last week regarding my DOJ score. Evil Ash has as much of a right to comment on the ease or quality of the games he plays: he doesn't need to be a master scorer just to be entitled to an opinion.

And if anyone else wants to go trawling the high score boards looking for my qualifications, I'll save you the bother:

Code: Select all

Xbox 360 - DFK Black Label
Skykid - 122,905,144,269 - stage 5 - Type B/Power - autobomb off

Ketsupachi
Skykid - 202,876,330,496 - Stage 5

DOJ BL
Skykid - 91,692, 680 - EXY - 1-5 

DOJ Black Label X Mode
Skykid - 75,096,332,530 - Type A - Leinyan - 1-5 TLB - 17922hit

Battle Bakraid Normal Course
Skykid - 5,677,920 - Flame Viper [C] - All

Akai Katana Shin
Skykid  - Type 2 - 790,642,326 - 1-5

Espgaluda II arrange
Tateha - 360 Arrange - Skykid - 2,119,283,317 - All - Rank 99*99

Progear no Arashi
Skykid - 14,786,130  - 1-5 -  Ring/Nail

Raiden IV Arcade
Skykid - 12,944,190 - 1-4 - Raiden MkII - 360

Raiden Fighters 2
Skykid - 41,024,460 - 6 - Slave (Judge Spear) - PCB

Solar Striker
Skykid - 371,600 - ALL

EspRADE
Skykid - 9,326,970 - 6 - JB the 5th - PCB

Cyvern
Skykid -  2,247,560 - 1-3 -  Schwarz

Zed Blade
Skykid - 3,048,200 - Stg 6 - Uncle Beard - Wave/AS/Wave - PCB

Mushi Futari 1.5 Original - Reco
Skykid - 223,972,846 - All (Lx0) - Normal

Sengoku Blaede
590,000 - Skykid - 1-6 - Junis - PCB

Ketsui
Skykid - 59,740,100 - 1-4 - Tiger Schwert - PCB

Battle Garegga
2,571,070 - Skykid - Stage 5 - Wild Snail - PCB

Harmful Park - Normal
Skykid - 3,694,827 - ALL

Elemental Master MD
Skykid - 371,780 - ALL

Ketsui Death Label (Very Hard)
Skykid - 671,366,865 - ALL - B

1CC's:

- DoDonPachi 
- Cho Ren Sha 68k
- Thunderforce 3
- Gleylancer
- Espgaluda II Arrange (360)
- Steel Empire
- Mushihimesama (Original)
- Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 (Original)
- Mushihimesama Futari Black Label (Original)
- Progear US
- Progear JP
- AP Batrider - Normal
- Battle Bakraid - Normal
- Ketsui Death Label (Very Hard)
- Coryoon (yeah, not exactly difficult.)
- Deathsmiles Mega Black Label
- Harmful Park - Normal
- Solar Striker
- Elemental Master

CAN I SPEEK NOW PLEAZE?!@

[Gus]

I don't think you have to be a master scorer to comment on a game but I think you should at least make some effort to understand the scoring systems before bashing it. Cave's newer game are only "easy" in that lesser skilled players can pull out every cheesy trick to see some ending while ignoring half the work that went into the game. If you want something harder the options are very much there to make it as difficult and demanding as your skill can handle and it's your own fault if you choose to ignore them.

[Skykid]

I don't think you have to be a master scorer to comment on a game but I think you should at least make some effort to understand the scoring systems before bashing it. Cave's newer game are only "easy" in that lesser skilled players can pull out every cheesy trick to see some ending while ignoring half the work that went into the game.

I don't think he was bashing anything. As far as I can tell 90% of the forum dislike DSII even though there's really little wrong with it.

The point is you straight up told the guy he has no business passing comment if he hasn't posted up decent scores. It's elitist enough here as it is without ostracising people who aren't reaching HFD style figures for not having immersed themselves enough to have an opinion.

The only exception to this would be DrTrouserplank, who everyone was patient with and to whom was offered an abundance of reasoning and proof. In the end he just turned out to be deaf to anything except his own incorrect opinion.

Those guys you can lay into all you want.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I think evil_ash_xero might be talking about playing for survival instead of score. DS and from what I hear AK and DFK 1.5 are easy compared to the DOJ and Futari era.

[BPzeBanshee]

Time for some happy support here.....

For those claiming Deathsmiles is easy to clear I'd like to see your replay/video of beating the game on Rank 3 for every stage plz thank u.

For those disliking Deathsmiles II, I'm on your side there. That said, my personal view of the game is that its 3Dness and Christmas theme make it look quite shonky but that's my personal taste not the game itself being bad. I'm sure it plays just fine if not better than the first.

raiden clears/highscores, gleylancer and thunderforce III

WINNING. What's your personal best with JET?

[Estebang]

I can vouch for the Deathsmiles being easy to clear. They're the only Cave shmups where I can consistently make it to the final stage.

[evil_ash_xero]

Anyone else think that CAVE might be fading out?

I don't think they've released a really impressive shmup, since about 2007 or 2008(I'm counting DS MBL as a "new" game).

And Akai Katana is good, not great, and heck, they had to work on it, to make it better than the arcade release. Why in the world was it rushed to begin with?? Are they THAT busy?

I don't know what's going on with them. Their games are getting too easy, and they're losing their kick. Now, they could blow my mind, with their next game, but right now...things seem on the decline.

Of course, I've thought this, since after the release of DS. Just thought I'd toss it out there. I'm sure I'll get attacked for not thinking DFK was superb. But as a follow up to Futari 1.5...well, it's pretty damn weak. It's also a weak sequel to DOJ(obviously).

And if anyone brings up DS II.....well, I'll just not pay attention to that argument, due to the poster's insanity.

I don't think someone who doesn't post any scores has much room to call their games "too easy" or even speak on the overall quality of them.

I posted ONE score. That's gives me some shump cred, right? RIGHT?

[Erppo]

It's also a weak sequel to DOJ(obviously).

It takes DOJ's system and makes it a bit better. Sounds like a pretty good sequel to me.

[BPzeBanshee]

I can vouch for the Deathsmiles being easy to clear. They're the only Cave shmups where I can consistently make it to the final stage.

I myself can make it to the final stage on all Level 3 difficulty but I hit a brick wall there. The clears I've seen of arcade mode on the leaderboards have all done a mixture of Level2/Level3s to avoid enabling suicide bullets or some easy mode crap. Obviously if you take that route the game will be easier for you.

[Skykid]

raiden clears/highscores, gleylancer and thunderforce III

WINNING. What's your personal best with JET?

Zilch at the moment (well, nothing I've bothered to record anyway.) I've given most time to RF2, but Jet's on the 'one day soon' list.

[BPzeBanshee]

WINNING. What's your personal best with JET?

Zilch at the moment (well, nothing I've bothered to record anyway.) I've given most time to RF2, but Jet's on the 'one day soon' list.

Damnit man, get to work on it.

Then again, RF2 is meant to be the easiest one of the series with JET being the hardest, or something like that. I can get to Phase 2 pretty consistently on a good run but haven't cleared it yet - RF2's on my 'one day soon' list myself.

[evil_ash_xero]

It's also a weak sequel to DOJ(obviously).

It takes DOJ's system and makes it a bit better. Sounds like a pretty good sequel to me.

Well, if you like constantly cancelling bullets, I guess. And toss out the atmosphere. And throw in some loli-bot bosses. And knock the challenge for survival down way any other game in the series(not to mention most of CAVE's output, up to that point).

DOJ isn't even my favorite one, but DFK pisses me off. And I always think of "Deep French Kiss", when I write it's name.

[Skykid]

Then again, RF2 is meant to be the easiest one of the series with JET being the hardest, or something like that. I can get to Phase 2 pretty consistently on a good run but haven't cleared it yet - RF2's on my 'one day soon' list myself.

I always thought original RF was the easiest and the series scaled up in difficulty, but I could be wrong.

[Erppo]

It's also a weak sequel to DOJ(obviously).

It takes DOJ's system and makes it a bit better. Sounds like a pretty good sequel to me.

Well, if you like constantly cancelling bullets, I guess. And toss out the atmosphere. And throw in some loli-bot bosses. And knock the challenge for survival down way any other game in the series(not to mention most of CAVE's output, up to that point).

None of these have any relevance whatsoever with playing the game for score so I'm going to assume you don't have much idea what you're talking about here.